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Thread: Jihadist Caliphate LLC. Extremist Thunderdome's everywhere.

  1. #19281
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Just don't haul the full ammo complement (something we learned in 1st chechnya) or drop HE-FRAG altogether as muricans did.

  2. #19282
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Leopard 2 was built as a defensive tank first. Not offensive. It was made to stare the enemy in the eye, to take hits, give them back better than it got and then to get to the next defensive position to do it all over again. And don't use it for Counter Insurgency Combat!
    It should be able to give back more than it takes, which it does in theory but an ammo rack like that shouldn't happen unless the crew has been sloppy with procedures and storage of ammo. Knocking it out, yeah. But damn.

    Nevertheless counter insurgency or no, upgrading your tank fleet with APS should be the next logical step in evolution for any army these days tbh

  3. #19283
    evil edna's Avatar
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    trying to analyse a tanks performance by using an arab army, wew

  4. #19284
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Leopard 2 was built as a defensive tank first. Not offensive. It was made to stare the enemy in the eye, to take hits, give them back better than it got and then to get to the next defensive position to do it all over again. And don't use it for Counter Insurgency Combat!
    Russians had gun-launched ATGMs similar to the one used in the video since early 80s so not sure how it could take hits any better in that scenario.
    Last edited by RazoR; February 5 2018 at 10:13:55 PM.

  5. #19285
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    trying to analyse a tanks performance by using an arab army, wew
    > turkish
    > arab

    uwot

  6. #19286
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    trying to analyse a tanks performance by using an arab army, wew
    > turkish
    > arab

    uwot
    This. The Turkish army is way more professional than any of the Arab armies.

    Rather I'd wager that they doctrinal use isn't up to the task at hand.
    nevar forget

  7. #19287
    Meester's Avatar
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    So much for German efficiency.

  8. #19288

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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Leopard 2 was built as a defensive tank first. Not offensive. It was made to stare the enemy in the eye, to take hits, give them back better than it got and then to get to the next defensive position to do it all over again. And don't use it for Counter Insurgency Combat!
    It should be able to give back more than it takes, which it does in theory but an ammo rack like that shouldn't happen unless the crew has been sloppy with procedures and storage of ammo. Knocking it out, yeah. But damn.

    Nevertheless counter insurgency or no, upgrading your tank fleet with APS should be the next logical step in evolution for any army these days tbh
    APS is not cheap, trophy is 300k per vehicle, add mass up to 650 kg and it has disadvantages of collateral damage. IFV is the new star:



  9. #19289
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    trying to analyse a tanks performance by using an arab army, wew
    > turkish
    > arab

    uwot
    This. The Turkish army is way more professional than any of the Arab armies.

    Rather I'd wager that they doctrinal use isn't up to the task at hand.
    They make all the same mistakes though. No support and no manuevering - just send the tanks ahead blind or have them cosplay a bunker.

  10. #19290
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    arabs are notoriously lazy when it comes to "don't store ammo in unshielded compartments, no matter how easy it is to use"

    same goes for using armor in urban combat without infantry support

    news at 11

  11. #19291

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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Leopard 2 was built as a defensive tank first. Not offensive. It was made to stare the enemy in the eye, to take hits, give them back better than it got and then to get to the next defensive position to do it all over again. And don't use it for Counter Insurgency Combat!
    Russians had gun-launched ATGMs similar to the one used in the video since early 80s so not sure how it could take hits any better in that scenario.
    Cold war designs emphasized full frontal action and armored accordingly. Both metis and konkurs were not capable of pen "modern" western tanks (M1,leo2,Challenger) on the front, that's why kornet and metis-m were later developed. Yes, Leopard 2 wasn't made for COIN warfare. Just look at how thick the frontal armor is vs how thin the side armor (specifically at the bustle) is:


    But you can adapt the Leopard 2 for COIN warfare by adding more armor:

  12. #19292
    evil edna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    trying to analyse a tanks performance by using an arab army, wew
    > turkish
    > arab

    uwot
    This. The Turkish army is way more professional than any of the Arab armies.

    Rather I'd wager that they doctrinal use isn't up to the task at hand.

    Before or after they purged about half the officer corps from the army?

  13. #19293
    smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    arabs are notoriously lazy

    news at 11
    All you needed famalan.

  14. #19294
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    bosch bullshit blown to bits

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  15. #19295
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    APS is not cheap, trophy is 300k per vehicle, add mass up to 650 kg and it has disadvantages of collateral damage.
    Isn't expensive when you take the base price of the tank unit itself into consideration. For what it does I think it's actually not that expensive. Collateral damage is a problem though, but not that big of an issue as to work around it.

  16. #19296
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    certainly less collateral damage from ERA/APS than a rack detonation innit

  17. #19297
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post

    Are you saying anything can be better than the Bradley IFV?!

    This piece of shit doesn't even have portholes that guys who are inside it can shoot out of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  18. #19298

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post

    Are you saying anything can be better than the Bradley IFV?!

    This piece of shit doesn't even have portholes that guys who are inside it can shoot out of.
    I'm saying modern army will use a lighter,, cheaper, more customization platform then a tank.
    Modern IFV doesn't have portholes, infantry disembark and engage enemy, they don't fight from inside.

  19. #19299
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    trying to analyse a tanks performance by using an arab army, wew
    > turkish
    > arab

    uwot
    This. The Turkish army is way more professional than any of the Arab armies.

    Rather I'd wager that they doctrinal use isn't up to the task at hand.

    Before or after they purged about half the officer corps from the army?
    I suspect that they are making exactly the same error the Saudis made in Yemen. Resupply over rugged terrain is hard and requires effort to keep the supply columns save. Tanks fill in for artillery/air support so they need to carry a lot of shells, far more than the bustle intended to stop the whole tank blowing up on a hit can hold.

    So rather than play it save and have to drive back to resupply constantly, you stack ammo in the turret, get hit, and go up like the 4th of July.

  20. #19300
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post

    Are you saying anything can be better than the Bradley IFV?!

    This piece of shit doesn't even have portholes that guys who are inside it can shoot out of.
    I'm saying modern army will use a lighter,, cheaper, more customization platform then a tank.
    Modern IFV doesn't have portholes, infantry disembark and engage enemy, they don't fight from inside.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

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