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Thread: [devpost] Wormhole twerking

  1. #61
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus View Post
    Why not just make them like gates? Spawn 12.5km in every direction around it, no matter the ship. Reduce activation radius down to 2.5km. Iterate every six weeks from there.
    I like the fact that WHs are unique in their function, but so far as balance is concerned, this might actually be the best answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHenni View Post
    I'm not sure that this is the best way to go either, but I'm not sure that I like the current meta either. 1-2 living in a C5/C6 where they can make quiet a bit of isk, while being able to wasily roll holes, seems somewhat off in a multiplayer game.
    Hence why at the end I tagged on caps get a polarity timer for any jump. AKA, jump through C140, jumping back through the K162 of that hole would give you polarity.

  2. #62
    Donor Verite Rendition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus View Post
    Why not just make them like gates? Spawn 12.5km in every direction around it, no matter the ship. Reduce activation radius down to 2.5km. Iterate every six weeks from there.
    You could do that. But I have always been under the impression that CCP made W-space different on purpose, so that wormholes weren't just temporary stargates.
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  3. #63
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    Making them work exactly like gates will imo result in at least casuals and the uninitiated steering clear. How many risk averse people do you see jumping into low or null sec? The perception they have is that every low/null gate has a camp on the other side, and where that is actually the case they'll likely be fucked if they jump in with their PVE ship anyway. And they know it.

    One of the key benefits of W-space imo is that you can jump in from highsec with impunity because you're in jump range on the other side, and if you keep your wits about you when inside the wormhole (checking dscan) then you can get in, jew, and get out without being caught. Especially if you're in a nullified T3.

    Making newbs land 12.5k off the wormhole when they jump in would all but kill that "risk free" component to W-space. It doesn't matter that statistically almost all wormholes will not have a camp there if - like low/null sec - the one time you jump in there is one and you get your shiny bearing ship dunked on. You can't understate the irrelevance of statistics in someone's mind when a bad roll of the dice has such a dire outcome for them.
    Last edited by Durzel; August 5 2014 at 09:01:38 AM.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzel View Post
    Making them work exactly like gates will imo result in at least casuals and the uninitiated steering clear. How many risk averse people do you see jumping into low or null sec? The perception they have is that every low/null gate has a camp on the other side, and where that is actually the case they'll likely be fucked if they jump in with their PVE ship anyway. And they know it.

    One of the key benefits of W-space imo is that you can jump in from highsec with impunity because you're in jump range on the other side, and if you keep your wits about you when inside the wormhole (checking dscan) then you can get in, jew, and get out without being caught. Especially if you're in a nullified T3.

    Making newbs land 12.5k off the wormhole when they jump in would all but kill that "risk free" component to W-space. It doesn't matter that statistically almost all wormholes will not have a camp there if - like low/null sec - the one time you jump in there is one and you get your shiny bearing ship dunked on. You can't understate the irrelevance of statistics in someone's mind when a bad roll of the dice has such a dire outcome for them.
    Its trivially easy to kill a solo ratter in WH anoms, just use a covops cloaked ship for tackle.

    I have never, ever had anyone manage to warp off on me after decloaking at 2km before I could lock and tackle them. You bump them and it gives you all the time you need.

  5. #65
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    But they won't be ratting if they couldn't safely peek in to see it looked safe to bring their ratting ship in & away from the hole.

    Also people suggesting wormholes should have ranges like k-space gates are forgetting the polarity timer. You can't just keep crashing back if you spawn close to hostiles and try again until you spawn across the hole & at enough range to make a run for it/warp off outside tackle range. You get 1 jump in, 1 jump back, then 4minutes before you can use that hole again (iirc 4mins from the first jump, so holding invulnerable cloaks could eat some of that time, at the tradeoff of not running away asap).
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; August 5 2014 at 10:56:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  6. #66
    Max Teranous's Avatar
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    Thought this was supposed to be mass based? So Frigs spawn on the WH as now, BS and Caps further out. Anyone can scout with impunity in frigs still, but gives some risk to BS & up and stops Capital cycling holes easily. Sounds ok to me TBH.
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  7. #67
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE NEW PLAYERS?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xequecal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzel View Post
    Making them work exactly like gates will imo result in at least casuals and the uninitiated steering clear. How many risk averse people do you see jumping into low or null sec? The perception they have is that every low/null gate has a camp on the other side, and where that is actually the case they'll likely be fucked if they jump in with their PVE ship anyway. And they know it.

    One of the key benefits of W-space imo is that you can jump in from highsec with impunity because you're in jump range on the other side, and if you keep your wits about you when inside the wormhole (checking dscan) then you can get in, jew, and get out without being caught. Especially if you're in a nullified T3.

    Making newbs land 12.5k off the wormhole when they jump in would all but kill that "risk free" component to W-space. It doesn't matter that statistically almost all wormholes will not have a camp there if - like low/null sec - the one time you jump in there is one and you get your shiny bearing ship dunked on. You can't understate the irrelevance of statistics in someone's mind when a bad roll of the dice has such a dire outcome for them.
    Its trivially easy to kill a solo ratter in WH anoms, just use a covops cloaked ship for tackle.

    I have never, ever had anyone manage to warp off on me after decloaking at 2km before I could lock and tackle them. You bump them and it gives you all the time you need.
    Grats for missing the point I guess?

    I wasn't saying that it was safe for them in there, or that people who were on the ball couldn't catch them, I was saying that jumping in and being in a position to jump straight back out if they ended up seeing other squares on overview is a massively underestimated factor as to why they go there in the first place, and coincidentally a big part of why the same people don't go to low/null.

    For the most part they can be mostly safe from opportunist gankers that are likely to come from the same place they did (especially if busy highsec) by sticking an alt on the wormhole. Wormhole flashes, you warp. Again - not guaranteed protection but good enough without disproportionate effort.

  9. #69

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    40km is just too far - 20-25km seems like a good starting point considering the 6 week update cycle. But you know unless there is some massive exploit found with the first version of this, its going to stay the way it is opened with for a longtime.

    Just hope it does not cause people to log-off and wait until tomorrow vs. rolling their hole to find more contnet. Thats my biggest fear with this change. Because if a group wants to run home sites and crit their hole, they will risk the capitals to do that far more easily because the return on that risk is clear.

    But rolling a hole just to get a new chain and look for more pew might not, and that is a sad thought. In turn, a change like this if done too extreme (like 40k fling of caps), might = less pvp, not more.

  10. #70

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    Because everyone loved my last notion:

    I am not a fan. The danger of wormhole space should be unquantifiable. It should be safe 90% of the time so that in that last 10% it is shocking. And probe launchers / exploring the unknown should be central.

    Change wandering holes so they are named differently than statics. These do not indicate whether they are EOL or time limited. They do not spawn k162s (effectively one way).


    Multiply the frequency of wandering holes by 4x.

    At any point, someone could be watching you. Dscan is your advance warning tool. You can roam and gank through the wandering holes, but you are balls deep and need to find your way out. Commit to a gank? Scary wormhole people (or the eponymous group) may be watching the same hole.

    Sounds like fun to me anyway.

  11. #71
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    Apparently the polarization timer on W-space > K-space wormholes is gone on sisi.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...posts&t=363264

    It's probably a bug and not a deliberate change but it could also be that CCP is looking to remove the polarization timer altogether

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chased View Post
    Apparently the polarization timer on W-space > K-space wormholes is gone on sisi.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...posts&t=363264

    It's probably a bug and not a deliberate change but it could also be that CCP is looking to remove the polarization timer altogether
    Either they stayed a bit too long underwater recently or it's a bug, that is one of the biggest thing for wormhole gameplay, I can't imagine them thinking that taking it away would possibly be a good change to the game. Tweaking it one way or the other might be warranted, I haven't thought about that timer very much but ruling it out would be massively stupid.

  13. #73
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    See first dev post
    Quote Originally Posted by fozzie
    If this is actually happening on sisi then it's a bug.
    So it's a leak from a private test server build, or they don't know wtf they're messing with.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  14. #74
    Agrippa Arkaral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    See first dev post
    Quote Originally Posted by fozzie
    If this is actually happening on sisi then it's a bug.
    So it's a leak from a private test server build, or they don't know wtf they're messing with.
    There have been a lot of "strange" things with wormholes since cruis that weren't in patch notes.

    K-space to w-space (or other way around) supercapital class wormholes for example...

  15. #75
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    THE SKY IS FALLING ABANDON WSPACE ABANDON THREAD ABANDON GAME ABANDON HOPE

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  16. #76
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa Arkaral View Post
    There have been a lot of "strange" things with wormholes since cruis that weren't in patch notes.

    K-space to w-space (or other way around) supercapital class wormholes for example...
    Thou art shitting me that those actually spawned on TQ. They've always been in the database though afaik.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  17. #77
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chased View Post
    Apparently the polarization timer on W-space > K-space wormholes is gone on sisi.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...posts&t=363264

    It's probably a bug and not a deliberate change but it could also be that CCP is looking to remove the polarization timer altogether
    Also is not bad.

  18. #78
    Agrippa Arkaral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa Arkaral View Post
    There have been a lot of "strange" things with wormholes since cruis that weren't in patch notes.

    K-space to w-space (or other way around) supercapital class wormholes for example...
    Thou art shitting me that those actually spawned on TQ. They've always been in the database though afaik.
    Looked it up: https://forums.eveonline.com/default...54&find=unread

    They did change the mass of them though

  19. #79
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Can someone subbed please post this suggestion to the latest devblog thread:

    how about you make there a minimum timer on a hole before it can permit a large mass like a capital through? Even a '10minutes from first creation/jump' timer would be enough to allow on-the-ball pvpers to find and put a tackler on the hole. Capitals can't warp away quickly, so it's not about them jumping back & being immediately safe should they cloak/hit warp, it's about the mass closing the hole fast with no time for PvPers to react. Let them still be able to cycle their static in ~10minutes (no great delay in the grand scheme, might make a few more people keep a sub-perfect connection to get to the isk-making), but give active connected people that window to find the new sig & prep to fight a capital + support fleet. I mean, it was a supported capital, right?
    Instead of the idea of spawning 'high mass ships' (capitals) away from holes.

    Specifically in this thread I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  20. #80

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    http://community.eveonline.com/news/...nown-unknowns/

    new devblog about wormholes, new expansion is wh themed

    Omg its alot of very intresting stuff, I wonder if they will add some new t3 ships now too?
    Last edited by Janeway84; August 6 2014 at 04:08:21 PM.

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