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Thread: Anomalous Thrust Production or ... Will travel to Mars take mere weeks?

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    LeonM's Avatar
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    Anomalous Thrust Production or ... Will travel to Mars take mere weeks?

    So ... hope it's not a re-post, but this piece came into my attention today -

    Numerical and Experimental Results for a Novel Propulsion Technology Requiring no On-Board Propellant

    Nasa validates 'impossible' space drive


    Full version d/l

    I first read about this thing about a year ago, courtesy of EvE Russian Chat (more frequently addressed as ShitChat). I didn't bother to save the link (and frankly a bit lazy to search it now) but it was an abstract of an experiment displaying that thrust can be generated by application of sheer EM energy. No propellant whatsoever. It stroke me as somewhat of a novelty in space propulsion (in which i am in no way an expert). Again, i don't remember why exactly (the tech. details), but i had an uneasy feeling, though not being able to formulate it, that something in that thing is in discrepancies with the basic laws of conservation. So i took it to my old man, which in another life in another place majored in astrophysics. I felt mainly irritated after that talk, due to the way that is so typical of physicists, he had very little to contribute to the issue of feasibility of such a thing, while he did a lot of talking. So i forgot about the whole thing, until it was linked to me by a ShitChat buddy.
    Both the results confirmed by peers, and the vague claims (along with complete absence of whatever theoretical explanations) and general feeling that no one has a clue why it works the way it works should make it a wonderful dish for tinfoilers of all casts, colours and convictions.
    Last edited by LeonM; August 3 2014 at 06:51:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Moderator Evelgrivion's Avatar
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    The fun thing about one confirmation of something that seems to defy the laws of physics by a trusted organization is that you'll get a lot of people doing their best to figure out if it's bullshit or not. We'll probably know sooner rather than later if this is real.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    So ... hope it's not a re-post, but this piece came into my attention today -

    Numerical and Experimental Results for a Novel Propulsion Technology Requiring no On-Board Propellant

    Nasa validates 'impossible' space drive


    I first read about this thing about a year ago, courtesy of EvE Russian Chat (more frequently addressed as ShitChat). I didn't bother to save the link (and frankly a bit lazy to search it now) but it was an abstract of an experiment displaying that thrust can be generated by application of sheer EM energy. No propellant whatsoever. It stroke me as somewhat of a novelty in space propulsion (in which i am in no way an expert). Again, i don't remember why exactly (the tech. details), but i had an uneasy feeling, though not being able to formulate it, that something in that thing is in discrepancies with the basic laws of conservation. So i took it to my old man, which in another life in another place majored in astrophysics. I felt mainly irritated after that talk, due to the way that is so typical of physicists, he had very little to contribute to the issue of feasibility of such a thing, while he did a lot of talking. So i forgot about the whole thing, until it was linked to me a ShitChat buddy.
    Both the results confirmed by peers, and the vague claims (along with complete absence of whatever theoretical explanations) and general feeling that no one has a clue why it works the way it works should make it a wonderful dish for tinfoilers of all casts, colours and convictions.
    No. It's a very nicely balanced tank imo. I don't want to be part of the curiculum.

  4. #4
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Interesting.....maybe you should carpet bomb some more Gazans about it?



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    Kidding! trying to wind you up mate. Seems interesting!
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

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    So is this warp drive?

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    LeonM's Avatar
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    No, it's impulse drive, actually.

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    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    No, I don't think so

    From Mem Alpha:

    In Federation starships, the impulse drive was essentially an augmented fusion rocket, usually consisting of one or more fusion reactors, an accelerator-generator, a driver coil assembly, and a vectored thrust nozzle to direct the plasma exhaust. The fusion reaction generated a highly energized plasma. This plasma, ("electro-plasma") could be employed for propulsion, or could be diverted through the EPS to the power transfer grid, via EPS conduits, so as to supply other systems. The accelerated plasma was passed through the driver coils, thereby generating a subspace field which improved the propulsive effect.
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

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    Impulse is when they go slow though, like orbiting a planet while the away team goes down and does the fun stuff.

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    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    True, but generally most travel in trek within a solar system is done at impulse, the exceptions that I can immediately think of are:

    1. When a ship goes to warp immediately after breaking orbit.. must have plotted a course directly out of the solar system.
    2. When the defiant goes to warp directly towards the sun to stop that founder blowing up the Bajoran sun with a protomatter device, the defiant almost hit the sun.

    (most probably more examples)

    Definitely something that requires some planning.

    Even the Borg slow down to impulse when approaching Earth in BOBW part 2...
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

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    King of the Babe Thread Donor Jolin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Impulse is when they go slow though, like orbiting a planet while the away team goes down and does the fun stuff.
    They use thrusters and stuff to get into orbit after which nothing is needed. Impulse is what they use to exit a solar system (or enter a solar system and approach a planet). Dunno if they've handwaviumed away any of this lore, but used to be that they had leave the solar system entirely to be able to go to warp.

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    They are inconsistent at best as I'm pretty sure there are a ton of times they go to warp from orbit.

    Anyway, this drive, if it works, sounds very cool. Sorta reminds me of the solar sail type concepts a bit.

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    LeonM's Avatar
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    That's embarrassing, I flunked with StarTrek terminology, fuck me right? (Not really embarrassed, sorryz)

  13. #13
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Sorta reminds me of the solar sail type concepts a bit.
    Solar sails you say......

    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

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    Donor AmaNutin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalline Entity View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Sorta reminds me of the solar sail type concepts a bit.
    Solar sails you say......

    Or that useless WH shuttle that everyone wants to blow up?

    Theoretically, by emitting particles (photons, electrons, any radiation) there is force, which dictates that an equal and opposite force affect the object which they emit from. It'd have utterly rubbish acceleration, but it could achieve significantly higher velocity since it could run for longer periods.
    Audacter calumniare, semper aliquid haeret

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    I find it incredible that a whole country can actually be more retarded than FHC.

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    rubbish acceleration or not, being able to push something along continuously would solve a bucket-load of problems related to interplanetary travel, even getting 0.25g of acceleration would solve the majority of zero-G issues humans face during interplanetary travel while also cutting down the amount of travel time significantly.

    it seems like physics violating sorcery though, plug power into one end, get thrust out of the other, with no loss of mass involved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalline Entity View Post
    True, but generally most travel in trek within a solar system is done at impulse, the exceptions that I can immediately think of are:

    1. When a ship goes to warp immediately after breaking orbit.. must have plotted a course directly out of the solar system.
    2. When the defiant goes to warp directly towards the sun to stop that founder blowing up the Bajoran sun with a protomatter device, the defiant almost hit the sun.

    (most probably more examples)

    Definitely something that requires some planning.

    Even the Borg slow down to impulse when approaching Earth in BOBW part 2...
    The Picard Maneuver?

  17. #17
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    I've come across an article discussing this earlier today, conspiracy theorists and the like are having a field day with this one.

    From NASA's paper:
    Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma. Future test plans include independent verification and validation at other test facilities.
    From what I've been able to gather this thruster uses quantum vacuum fluctuations and turns it into a plasma, which then interacts with an EM field to produce small amounts of thrust. Seemingly no laws of physics are violated. It does seem the theory behind it is poorly understood though.

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    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    so, propulsion via EM waves propagating through quantum plasma? All we need is a working fusion reactor I guess, some acceleration coils (let's face it, every good design has some pointy chromed bits sticking out for the coolness factor) and a balding Frenchman speaking perfect British English.


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  19. #19
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    Even the best threads about the coolest science can be turned into shitfests by startrek. Can we not have ponys instead, at least it wouldn't be quite as gay.

  20. #20
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chakrai View Post
    Even the best threads about the coolest science can be turned into shitfests by startrek. Can we not have ponys instead, at least it wouldn't be quite as gay.
    get fucked.


    

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