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Thread: [PVP] Garmur

  1. #61
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    I dont mean instead of the cap booster, i mean instead of the rockets. But if it doesnt fit... .
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  2. #62
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibitt View Post
    I've done it before, but the major issue is simply that applied DPS is very poor so it will take a while, and I don't use faction scram and I rarely have links when I tackle someone, so the "safe" area is basically 2km wide. Links make it more like 7km which is pretty easy to manage.
    I've done a lot.

  3. #63
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    If you use it as a stilletto, why the rockets in the first place? Wouldnt taking them away allow you a nos and free up 2 rig slots, both making you a lot better as a tackler, and surely your gang doesnt rely on garmur dps?
    If you're good at something don't do it for free.

  4. #64
    Smarnca's Avatar
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    fuck off quackbot stop spaming

    here's the setup that I used to use. It's good for catching kiters and surprising some other frigs with mega scram kiting

    [Garmur, qu]
    Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
    Damage Control II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

    1MN Afterburner II
    5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
    Warp Scrambler II
    Stasis Webifier II

    Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

    Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
    Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
    Small Bay Loading Accelerator I


  5. #65
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Im bored and have some time to kill, so have a hopefully insightfull post about how i made a garmur fit:

    My ealier point in here still stands:

      Spoiler:


    Well, if you start at range vs a ab ship everything with projection is going to win, if you start at at 0 the only thing that matters is speed and size, vs a mwd ship you either win anyways due to a massive speed advantage or you lose/draw vs fast stuff anyways (ceptors, fast t1 frigs and co). The garmur is slightly easier but not by much, the matchups are so polarized they essentially stay the same no matter if you fly a condor, a crow or a garmur. 95% of the kills a garmur got a condor could have gotten too.

    A vni is going to crush you, a slicer is going to win/draw, a orthrus just means instadeath, a caracal can solo you. You can get caught at 0, you lose vs worms and other stuff with good projection. All around not that great a frigate considering its price and rep.



    But ive tried making the garmur work, and id like to share what i came up with, the crow and other lml ceptors are useless now, lmls in general arent in a great spot and links are gone, but like the orthrus this isnt all that bad for the garmur. Firstly, just to get it out of the way i have a pretty specialized missile clone, hg snakes, zors, rl-1005, lml-905 which obviously helped a lot. Without the speed implant you will have a much harder time, but it still ought to work. (try to get at least a mg set as fast as you can if you are in any ways trying to be a kiter)


    So for me the garmur excels at 2 things as a lml ship, its speed and its dps. So i tried to maximise these, the thought behind this was that firstly - in lowsec, you need to survive a warpin at 0 - so you need all the speed and agility you can get. And for the dps, vs ab stuff it doesnt matter but against mwd stuff and similar the shorter the fight the better - a short fight means no time for them to catch you, no time for them to get away. The problem lml ships have is that they take to long to kill, anything going over 3km/s will slingshot out of range eventually anyways. A condors 80 or so dps with maybe half of that applying vs a mwding frig means that they have minutes to gain a few km to win (i.e get away).

    So speed/agility to get out of range (mostly, you can kite well with a lot less m/s but to get out you need more) and dps to keep the fights short.


    The first thing that came to mind was that the garmur either needs a sig-amp, a sensor booster or a targeting range rig. I ended up with a sensor booster because lows were limited, the targeting rig was too weak and it was a rig. Dps and speed are the 2 things i tried to go for, a 4th mid didnt help me there, while a rig and/or a lowslot certainly did. That and the lml + propmod and point where the essentials. Which started me with this.

    The t2 mwd is to get as much speed as i could get, i suppose trying for less sig size also would have been a way to go, but i went for speed (i havnt tested it, but there could be a way to get through the at 0 chokepoint elsehow, with halos and the sig mwd - a mid grade halo set is extremely cheap, and it might allow you to buy enough time to get away, although according to eft the difference vs a frig is 0.1 second - so i doubt it). T2 point obviously is for the range.

    [Garmur, building a fit]

    [Empty Low slot]
    [Empty Low slot]
    [Empty Low slot]

    5MN Microwarpdrive II
    Warp Disruptor II
    Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
    [Empty Med slot]

    Light Missile Launcher II
    Light Missile Launcher II
    Light Missile Launcher II

    [Empty Rig slot]
    [Empty Rig slot]
    [Empty Rig slot]


    Now, i wanted dps - and i went for 2 BCUs (or BCS'), this left me with 147 dps with faction ammo. Then i went with speed/agility and got a nano in the last low, the garmur in itself is a very fast frigate already, 3855m/s and 4.45 second for agility. The nano bumped that to 4221 and 3.75 agility wise - just to compare a dual nano slicer a la chessur has 3818m/s and a agility of 3.37. A empty garmur is already faster then a dual nano slicer. But that wasnt enough for me, i wanted more speeeeeeeed. So i got 2 poly rigs. 4.561km/s and 3.28 agility. Really not bad. But now i had this:

    [Garmur, building a fit]

    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    5MN Microwarpdrive II
    Warp Disruptor II
    Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
    [Empty Med slot]

    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile

    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
    [Empty Rig slot]

    Which as such was fine, but i had an empy mid and no cpu left, and only 1m30 of cap, so i got a cpu rig, i also decided to meta the mwd to fix or sort of fix the cap problem a bit. An option i could have taken would have been to go 2 t2 agility rigs but since the fit then capped out at 2.01 agility with mwd off and that was 0.02 seconds to much to get total warp immunity and since i think speed + agility > agility probably is better (i dont know, i never tested the agility garmur) i decided to go with the poly rigs. Another option would have been t2 poly + t1 low friction which would have given me slightly better agility and less speed. I really am not sure here and i would appreciate if someone here knew the answer, i get more relative agility compared to speed but does that mean i can get further out easier or does the higher speed mean more?

    4463 with 3.16 vs 4561 and 3.28? And what about snakes and zors increasing speed but not agility? Im not sure what is better here, but both work.

    Anyways, back to the fit. I now had roughly 20 cpu and 7.5 pg left. So i first looked at a Small shield extender,

    this gave me:

    [Garmur, sse]

    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
    Warp Disruptor II
    Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster
    Republic Fleet Small Shield Extender

    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile

    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
    Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

    4k ehp, very fast, good dps, - but fairly bad cap, 2min 20 - even with the meta mwd and sebo. So thats a option you could take, it gives you gank, speed and tank. Or at least some tank.


    But i hate low cap on these things, so firstly i went with this (i went back to t2 mwd because now cap didnt matter anymore):

    [Garmur, building a fit]

    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    5MN Microwarpdrive II
    Warp Disruptor II
    Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
    Republic Fleet Small Cap Battery

    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile

    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
    Small Processor Overclocking Unit I

    This gave me cap stability with the cost of 1k ehp compared to the SSE fit above. And i flew it quite a bit. https://zkillboard.com/kill/61323435/ or https://zkillboard.com/kill/61324308/ , the fit worked, very well. All my losses and lost kills with it were due to my stupidity (or in case of the 2 garmurs landing at 0 at a at 70 warpin) and me flying badly (moa was entering armor and i messed up and the mega got a wrecking hit off).


    But i had a different very similar garmur which i liked a lot more, its spoilered because i wouldnt recommend it to anyone.

      Spoiler:

    [Garmur, gay]

    Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
    Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    Gistii A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
    Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
    Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

    Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile

    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
    Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I


    Mjolnir Fury Light Missile x1000
    Quafe Zero x1
    Scourge Fury Light Missile x1000
    Nova Fury Light Missile x1000
    Inferno Fury Light Missile x1000
    Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile x1000
    Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile x1000
    Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile x1000
    Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile x1000
    Nanite Repair Paste x500
    Scan Resolution Script x1
    Missile Range Script x1
    ECCM Script x1



    The guidance computer made all the difference. To compare, the t2 garmur shooting itself (cold mwd) would do 79 cold dps, a heated MGC would put that to 100. The difference is a lot more then even a BCU. So i tried to implement the MGC into the t2 fit.

    However, even by using meta mods i instantly ran back into the cap problems, a t2 point needs absurd cpu and cap. So i would need to lose a rig, which i didnt want or lose a mid, but point/mwd were fixed, sensor booster was needed and i wanted the mgc, so i went away from the idea of a pure t2 fit. SO i went and got a DG point, 45 million and it allows you to lose the CPU rig. However, i had to meta the sebo and the MGC. Since i hated cap i decided to fix that with a semi rig.

    [Garmur, minor bling]

    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    5MN Microwarpdrive II
    Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
    Astro-Inertial Compact Missile Guidance Computer, Missile Precision Script
    Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script

    Light Missile Launcher II
    Light Missile Launcher II
    Light Missile Launcher II

    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
    Small Semiconductor Memory Cell II
    Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I



    Giving me this.

    But its not finished there. You can drop the semi rig and say screw you cap stability and get 2 t2 poly and a t1 low friction rig (the reason why instead of 1 t2 and 2 t1 polies) is in the implant section below). Then i noticed that if you drop the t2 mwd for a meta one, you still are faster then the semiconductor version, but you still have very very good cap

    Which ultimately gives you this:

    [Garmur, building a fit]

    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
    Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
    Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster
    Astro-Inertial Compact Missile Guidance Computer

    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile

    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
    Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I

    2.9k EHP
    147/173 dps with faction
    180/211 dps with fury
    192m size
    4592/6574m/s
    2.03/3.06 agility.


    Which i think is the best semi-bling fit a garmur can have at the moment (a faction or deadspace mwd is 30mil more, which i dont think is necessary), you can go t2 mwd for slightly more speed at the cost of cap. If you dont like to drop basicely half an extra garmur worth of isk to get the computer the above SSE or small cap battery fits will also serve you well.


    Now for implants for lowsec:

    Even if you dont want to go and get a snake implant set there are implants well worth getting, the most importent one for the garmur is:

    em-703

    What this does is it puts your mwd off agility to 1.97 seconds. Which means you arent catchable by instalocking camps anymore, meaning you can roam without caring at all (with the poly only rig configuration you dont break the 2 seconds).

    Given that you cant afford a snake set, get AC-603 ,its a 3% flat speed for 5 mil.

    So:

    AC-603
    EM-703
    Zor's custom Navigation Hyper-link
    LM-903
    RL-1003


    All in all this will cost you 120 mil or so, and it will give you 400m/s, make you immune to gatecamps and give you 9 dps with cold faction. At the very least get the em-703.




    On defensive scrams, i found that they just dont work. The only time the little bit of extra range you have over them is if they are faster then you are and are slowly getting closer and closer in a straight line, which should never be the case anyways. It costs you either tank, cap or dps - and i think all 3 are more important then a defensive option. If you land at 0 they do nothing, if you get slightshot they do nothing. Just not a good mod, sadly.

    On tank vs speed/dps, the garmur flies in such a way that the enemy mostly hits you way to hard (i.e you get caught) or not at all, the few times you run into a beatable ship that can project at 30+km arent worth it imo. You have enough ehp to survive one volley of most things, so you can get out mostly.
    Last edited by W0lf Crendraven; May 5 2017 at 11:59:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  6. #66

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    n1

  7. #67
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Not really sure, but here is a nullsec version.

    [Garmur, nullsec]

    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
    Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
    Peripheral Compact Target Painter
    Astro-Inertial Compact Missile Guidance Computer, Missile Precision Script

    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile

    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
    Small Ionic Field Projector II
    Small Ionic Field Projector II

    Im not sure if i shouldnt drop the poly for a t2 rigor rig.

    Basicely, no warpin at 0 means no need for over the top agility and speed so instead you can use even more application. Especially since its nullsec and people use ceptors and similar to hunt poor little garmurs.

    Im not sure if precision is the best ammo to use vs ceptors, it increases the application by a ton, but its range is 30km. Although i guess while burning away that ought to be enough.

    Anyways, vs a heating stiletto in the normal fit (od, nano, mse, anti-em, quad lif mwd) this deals (with heat on everything) :

    With precision:
    86 dps
    96 with t2 rigor.

    (without heat from the ceptor)
    105 dps
    117 dps with t2 rigor

    With faction ammo

    63dps
    71dps with t2 rigor

    without heat on the stilletto

    79dps
    88dps with t2 rigor

    Just to compare, a "normal" garmur used by most people (1 bcu, 1 dps rig, no application stuff at all) deals 39dps against a heating stiletto.


    Another example would be the famous Derpatron, here in a t2 fit.

    The "normal" garmur deals 75 heated dps vs it, the above 123 (or 140 with rigor).


    Looking at the numbers i really like the t2 rigor, although the speed loss is noticeable.

    Following is a fit which is absurdly overpriced and you should just ignore it if you are looking for serious fits.

    Just for fun (and the rich), heres a max gank fuck you i do dps garmur (use DG or CN launchers depending on which are cheaper atm):

    [Garmur, them deepz]

    Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
    Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
    Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

    Gistii A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive
    Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
    Republic Fleet Target Painter
    Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script

    Caldari Navy Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Caldari Navy Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Caldari Navy Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile

    Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
    Small Ionic Field Projector II
    Small Ionic Field Projector II


    205 dps vs the derpatron, 104 dps vs a heating stiletto.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  8. #68
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Not sure if anyone cares, but ive upgraded the fit with an A type mwd, it gives a tiny but more speed. Not sure if worth the price.

    [Garmur, speed/dps]

    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    Gistii A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive
    Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
    Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
    Astro-Inertial Compact Missile Guidance Computer

    Light Missile Launcher II
    Light Missile Launcher II
    Light Missile Launcher II

    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
    Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
    Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I


    Mjolnir Fury Light Missile x1000
    Scourge Fury Light Missile x1000
    Nova Fury Light Missile x1000
    Inferno Fury Light Missile x1000
    Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile x1000
    Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile x1000
    Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile x1000
    Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile x1000
    Nanite Repair Paste x500
    Targeting Range Script x1
    Missile Range Script x1
    Missile Precision Script x1
    ECCM Script x1


    Just posting it again because it actually has the stuff that should be in the cargo. Obvious drug choise is quafe zero (its amazing) and toxot.


    (pic is with quafe zero)
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

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