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Thread: Millennials and Racism

  1. #21
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    What's interesting is that while this is backed up by statistics, black people are generally prosecuted MUCH MUCH more harshly compared to white people in the United States for the same crimes. This is even when adjusted for factors like income, education, etc. There is arguably some racism here. The problem for me is that this is the problem that needs to be solved. Giving people a "leg up" in other areas doesn't do anything to address this problem.
    It's a bit of a catch 22. Black people generally receive harsher punishments because the idea is that they are repeat offenders. The longer that they stay off the street, the better. They're considered repeat offenders because statistically they ARE. However, the reason that they're repeat offenders is often because they get harsh punishments, spend years in prison, and are unable to adapt to civilian life once they're out, so they turn back to crime, making the statistic true.

    From the LEO side, part of the problem is that for many criminals, prison isn't a punishment. For a lot of gangs, prison is college, where they learn from their elders. For the more business oriented, prison is often just a different customer base. Worse yet, the people who might try to reform their lives after prison find it hard to do so because of the stigma involved for one, but mostly because they don't know how to return to being civilians. I know this is a bit of a side track, but this -much like anything else in the world worth discussing- has a lot of other things that loop into it.
    It seems to me that the answer here is bloody simple: Fix our fucking prisons.

    US prisons are not run as rehabilitation facilities, just as long duration holding pens and torture facilities. So yeah, no shit anyone going into one of those isn't going to improve. We need to adopt a treatment model for our prison system, but between the profitability of private prisons, and the lack of political will to see criminals as people, we'll never, ever actually do that.

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

  2. #22
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    The entire US justice system is pretty screwy to be honest.

  3. #23
    Keorythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophichius View Post
    US prisons are not run as rehabilitation facilities, just as long duration holding pens and torture facilities. So yeah, no shit anyone going into one of those isn't going to improve. We need to adopt a treatment model for our prison system, but between the profitability of private prisons, and the lack of political will to see criminals as people, we'll never, ever actually do that.

    -O
    I gotta disagree with you there. The prisons aren't the problem. While we can argue whether they're intended to be rehabilitation or punitive centers is kind of moot. Rehabilitation is bullshit. Once a person does their time, they're still screwed in life. The ability to get a decent job is very small in the US. Access to a number of benefits regular citizens enjoy is gone. Crime re-occurs for many because it's the easier option to make ends meet.

    But this applies to every race.

    As to Aea's original point. Can you point me to the race that has the culture that promotes crime as a positive in music, media, and dress?

  4. #24
    THE PUNISHED
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    As to Aea's original point. Can you point me to the race that has the culture that promotes crime as a positive in music, media, and dress?
    I can point you to the socio-economic and age-range bracket.

  5. #25
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophichius View Post
    US prisons are not run as rehabilitation facilities, just as long duration holding pens and torture facilities. So yeah, no shit anyone going into one of those isn't going to improve. We need to adopt a treatment model for our prison system, but between the profitability of private prisons, and the lack of political will to see criminals as people, we'll never, ever actually do that.

    -O
    I gotta disagree with you there. The prisons aren't the problem. While we can argue whether they're intended to be rehabilitation or punitive centers is kind of moot. Rehabilitation is bullshit. Once a person does their time, they're still screwed in life. The ability to get a decent job is very small in the US. Access to a number of benefits regular citizens enjoy is gone. Crime re-occurs for many because it's the easier option to make ends meet.

    But this applies to every race.

    As to Aea's original point. Can you point me to the race that has the culture that promotes crime as a positive in music, media, and dress?
    Agree with Keorythe here. The prisons themselves are not the problem. Yes, they are holding pens, that's the intended function. Working as intended. Serious criminal offender is not on the streets to offend again. The issue is when they get out. Congrats, you did your time, now you're free to go, and we don't want to see you ever again. Except there's nothing to ease them into society. And even if there were, the rest of your life is a sigma. Good luck getting work in the first seven years when you have to report being a felon to any potential employer.

  6. #26
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophichius View Post
    US prisons are not run as rehabilitation facilities, just as long duration holding pens and torture facilities. So yeah, no shit anyone going into one of those isn't going to improve. We need to adopt a treatment model for our prison system, but between the profitability of private prisons, and the lack of political will to see criminals as people, we'll never, ever actually do that.

    -O
    I gotta disagree with you there. The prisons aren't the problem. While we can argue whether they're intended to be rehabilitation or punitive centers is kind of moot. Rehabilitation is bullshit. Once a person does their time, they're still screwed in life. The ability to get a decent job is very small in the US. Access to a number of benefits regular citizens enjoy is gone. Crime re-occurs for many because it's the easier option to make ends meet.

    But this applies to every race.

    As to Aea's original point. Can you point me to the race that has the culture that promotes crime as a positive in music, media, and dress?
    Agree with Keorythe here. The prisons themselves are not the problem. Yes, they are holding pens, that's the intended function. Working as intended. Serious criminal offender is not on the streets to offend again. The issue is when they get out. Congrats, you did your time, now you're free to go, and we don't want to see you ever again. Except there's nothing to ease them into society. And even if there were, the rest of your life is a sigma. Good luck getting work in the first seven years when you have to report being a felon to any potential employer.
    The prisons are not the sole problem, they are however a major part of the problem. Keorythe, why do you believe rehabilitation is bullshit? You've basically conceded every single point for why rehabilitation should be a focus. Felons have very limited employment opportunities after prison, though realistically they didn't have them before either. They tend to turn to crime because they can't make the system work for them, so they work outside it. Rehabilitation should be focused on teaching useful work and life skills to prevent them from simply going right back to crime to support themselves.

    And Cue1, if you really just want criminals off the street and don't care about rehabilitating them, you may as well just go all the way to summary execution of the convicted. You've just written them off as ever being worthwhile members of society. Prison is the only point in that cycle where the state has significant ability to alter the individual, throwing that opportunity away because it's expensive, or difficult, or not 100% effective, or because you personally find the idea of (god forbid) helping criminals to be abhorrent is cowardly and pathetic.

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

  7. #27
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    To be fair, if the War on Drugs retardedness ever finally stops, I think we would see a huge drop in the prison pops, especially among minorities.

    But the prison companies and the guard unions are doing everything they possibly can to prevent that from happening.

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