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Thread: Millennials and Racism

  1. #1
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Millennials and Racism

    I've been seeing a lot of articles recently, particular by non-white authors arguing that millennials are going to contribute greatly to increased racism in America.

    Here's a recent one: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...prejudice.html

    What are your thoughts on this? Is racism a growing problem or a dying trend? Are we entering a post-racial world or are policies like Affirmative Action still required and/or more necessary then ever?

  2. #2
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    The more you make it a problem the more it becomes.

    That said, forgetting history causes it to repeat.

  3. #3
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    I've come to believe that the racism of today isn't really racism, or at least racism as I think of it. The article touches on it, but doesn't quite hit the nail. It's not about the fact that you're black, or white, or Asian, it's the fact that the culture you grow up in dictates the kind of person you are. Black people don't get arrested more because they're black, they get arrested more because they commit crimes more often, and usually with less planning. It's not the race, it's the culture.

    We always talk about the "negative" racism but never the "positive"(the quotes are important because all racism is wrong, but a realistic part of our world). How about the Asian kids who are known for being a math wiz because they're Asian? Society says that it's not that they study hard, it's that they're Asian, and everyone knows that Asians are amazing at math, or even just academics in general. The reality is that they are pushed by their some parts of their culture to study hard and focus themselves on their academics, and surprisingly enough they're good at them because of it. Similar to blacks are pushed by some parts of the culture to commit crimes impulsively.

    Yesterday's racism was the case of bigotry, hatred, and fear. Today's racism is a culture clash.

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    Moderator Moderator F*** My Aunt Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    It's not the race, it's the culture.
    Got a source for this?

  5. #5
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F*** My Aunt Rita View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    It's not the race, it's the culture.
    Got a source for this?
    you want a source for his opinion?


    

  6. #6
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by F*** My Aunt Rita View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    It's not the race, it's the culture.
    Got a source for this?
    you want a source for his opinion?
    This.

  7. #7
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by F*** My Aunt Rita View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    It's not the race, it's the culture.
    Got a source for this?
    you want a source for his opinion?
    This.

  8. #8
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Of course this is mainly a US focused perspective for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Black people don't get arrested more because they're black, they get arrested more because they commit crimes more often, and usually with less planning.
    Racist spotted. Seriously though, it is a complicated mix of several factors that feed in to each other. On average, black people have less money, poor people are more likely to commit petty crime then well off people, cops keep an eye on them more (arguably understandably so, as they are more likely to be committing a crime), they get sentenced worse, people who have already been in prison are more likely to go back then people who have never been to prison, people who have been in prison are more likely to be poor, etc.

    It is much more complicated then just "black people commit crimes more often with less planning". That may be true, but is not the entire picture.

    As to the questions from the OP:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    Is racism a growing problem or a dying trend?
    I think racism harms less people now then it did 20 years ago, and 20 years ago was not as bad as 50 years ago. I think that more people say more stupid things on the internet now then 20 years ago, but that is not as bad as people getting fire bombed for being in an inter racial relationship, and yeah, I have a friend of my parents lose his black girlfriend to an apartment fire from that.
    Are we entering a post-racial world or are policies like Affirmative Action still required and/or more necessary then ever?
    Not really a post racial world, but affirmative action has always been controversial. I think it has its place, but can definitely lead to stupid things.

    I want to hold the third slot at my shop until I can get in a black artist, (or maybe a woman), so I might be practicing a bit of affirmative action, but it is more about my relationship to the community I am in, then trying to do it to make the world a better place.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by F*** My Aunt Rita View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    It's not the race, it's the culture.
    Got a source for this?
    you want a source for his opinion?
    This.
    After a long search I found it.

    http://failheap-challenge.com/showth...29#post1089029

  10. #10
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Racist spotted. Seriously though, it is a complicated mix of several factors that feed in to each other. On average, black people have less money, poor people are more likely to commit petty crime then well off people, cops keep an eye on them more (arguably understandably so, as they are more likely to be committing a crime), they get sentenced worse, people who have already been in prison are more likely to go back then people who have never been to prison, people who have been in prison are more likely to be poor, etc.

    It is much more complicated then just "black people commit crimes more often with less planning". That may be true, but is not the entire picture.
    You really just restated my point with more detail. The reasons you listed are all reasons why blacks commit more crimes.

  11. #11
    smuggo
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    Is the system designed to keep the black man down because he commits more crime or does the black man commit more crime because the system keeps him down?

    With regards to the OP. In these austere times I'm quite sure there's a number of white folk feeling disenfranchised with schemes like affirmative action/positive discrimination on the go (in fact I'm quite sure these schemes are counter productive). It's becoming increasingly hard to raise any concerns about race relations if you're white because 'you're not a 'person of colour' so you can't understand our oppression from your 'position of privilege', even though those doing the shouting seem to be outrageously middle class. The original article talks about 'colourblindness' but also about how unique 'people of colour' are in terms of their worldview and how much they can add to the workplace. Are you different because of your skin tone or not m80?

    Given the fact that the multicultural experiment is in the process of failing but nobody is applying the brakes and there's a few studies about showing that 'diverse' population groups don't mix well I don't doubt that we'll see an increase in racism (from all sides) in the near future.
    Last edited by smuggo; May 20 2014 at 06:00:31 PM.

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    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Given the fact that the multicultural experiment is in the process of failing but nobody is applying the brakes and there's a few studies about showing that 'diverse' population groups don't mix well I don't doubt that we'll see an increase in racism (from all sides) in the near future.
    You talking about the US or Europe when you say the "multicultural experiment" is failing? What does that really mean? What is the failure, and if you think it is failing, what do you think should be done? End all immigration? Split up mixed populations? ??
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


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    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    The problem with the idea of privilege is that its proponents are woefully under-equipped to sell it in a palatable way to the masses. I think it's quite clear that it exists, and that racism is something far more systematic, but the left just don't seem to understand that most people aren't particularly bright and would benefit from a more reductionist explanation as opposed to the rather aggressive representation of 'privilege' currently peddled on/in tmblr/instagram/twitter/student campuses. This aggressiveness stifles debate (and it is a debate that needs to be had) and pushes people further to the right.
    Last edited by Djan Seriy Anaplian; May 20 2014 at 06:44:19 PM.

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    Look; a post that makes the assumption that the reason why more people aren't following the 'left' is that we have too many stupid people.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

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    -ism's will never stop being an issue as long as someone can either have power over another, or use the -ism to gain power or benefit over others.

    Frankly, most stereotypes attributed to racism are actually far more attributable to low socio economic status, often caused by low levels of education.

    Real dictionary-definition-racists, people who view other skin colors or ethnicities as "lesser" than their own and belive those races/ethnicities should be treated differently purely because of race/ethnicity, are, IMO, a quickly dying breed in the United States.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Given the fact that the multicultural experiment is in the process of failing but nobody is applying the brakes and there's a few studies about showing that 'diverse' population groups don't mix well I don't doubt that we'll see an increase in racism (from all sides) in the near future.
    You talking about the US or Europe when you say the "multicultural experiment" is failing? What does that really mean? What is the failure, and if you think it is failing, what do you think should be done? End all immigration? Split up mixed populations? ??
    I believe the answer would be to remove rules that demand diversity for the sake of diversity. Diversity in itself has been held up as a social standard within businesses and groups for a while now. However, the tangible benefits are near impossible to quantify except in very limited circumstances. Requiring an African American or Asian American as a customer representative makes sense, but requiring one of them as a cubicle bound account does not. It's mostly as a "were not racist" card and while you can try to argue that it is helping the community, understand that not all areas have a destitute "community" of whatever race you're seeking.

    I think the main issue today with Millenials and race leans more towards what Larkonis mentioned earlier. The litmus test of purity makes discussing the subject difficult for anyone not of that color, sex, or orientation. This leads to many opposing what is perceived as racist without actually understanding the subject because the subject is either popular or because they fear being labeled as one themselves. And getting that label even in error can have drastic consequences. Millenials don't get to ride the fence these days on hot button topics. Hence you understand the quotes from the article:

    they’re committed to an ideal of colorblindness that leaves them uncomfortable with race, opposed to measures to reduce racial inequality, and a bit confused about what racism is.
    Although 73 percent believe that we should talk “more openly” about bias, only 20 percent say they’re comfortable doing so
    But the OP's article wants to change the goalposts by redefining racism.

    Take for instance the following:
    No, racism is better understood as white supremacy—anything that furthers a broad hierarchy of racist inequity, where whites possess the greatest share of power, respect, and resources, and blacks the least.
    By defining racism in this manner, you remove the general term of racism and apply it strictly to whites. This almost give minorities a free pass to commit acts of racism without fear of consequence as it is doing so is in the name of "equality". Instead of racism it's all about "checking your privilege".

    Then we arrive at the next quote:
    When a black teenager is unfairly profiled by police, we say it’s “because of the color of his skin,” which—as a construction—avoids the racism at play, from the segregated neighborhood the officer patrols to the pervasive belief in black criminality that shapes our approach to crime.

    Again the author is attempting to redefine racism from a skin color issue to one based on status or finances. This isn't the first time that Jamelle Bouie has attempted to make this connection before. But what's really funny is that the colorblindness that he talks about is kids coming into the world with a no racism mindset and having difficulty understanding why some forms of it are given a pass. For people like Jamelle Bouie or Donna Brazile, the idea that the new generation is more likely to call them out on their views as racist is a bit disconcerting.

    Unfortunately I can't speak for how things are happening across the pond in the EU. Someone else will have to chime in for that side.

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    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Look; a post that makes the assumption that the reason why more people aren't following the 'left' is that we have too many stupid people.
    'We' being the general populace? It's not necessarily stupidity, but the whole idea of privilege theory is quite complex: most people simply don't have the time or inclination to care. The reason 'people' (i use the term 'left' loosely, if you want to define the proponents you own way then do so) discuss race, wealth, gender etc. together is that according to privilege theory, these metrics intersect and interact with one another. For example, you might have gender privilege, but not financial privileges, this might then effect the choices and experiences you've had in different areas, depending on how important privileged gender identities or financial statuses are in that realm. If you try and define it more succinctly in academic terms, then an analysis of institutional marginalisation in a whole host of areas is needed - this is not a simple thing. Shit, it hurts my head to think about it and i'm supposed to be relatively intelligent/open minded.

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    THE PUNISHED
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    I've been seeing a lot of articles recently, particular by non-white authors arguing that millennials are going to contribute greatly to increased racism in America.

    Here's a recent one: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...prejudice.html

    What are your thoughts on this? Is racism a growing problem or a dying trend? Are we entering a post-racial world or are policies like Affirmative Action still required and/or more necessary then ever?







    And also re: crime, education, employment etc.

    Socio-economic situation and culture, all of which were forced on 'em throughout the last 200 years. They're now beginning to climb out of it, slowly.

    But it aint due to skin colour. White ppls (see Jerry Springer / Jeremy Kyle guests) are just as likely to be shitty parents / criminals / drug addicts / wastes of space.

    It's about money.

    More black people are poor, proportionally, than white people. That's why "they commit more crimes" or "they don't graduate as much".

    and our grandparents (and parents... and in some cases us) did that to them.

    way-hay.
    Last edited by Ralara; May 20 2014 at 09:18:18 PM.

  19. #19
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    ...
    ...why blacks commit more crimes.
    What's interesting is that while this is backed up by statistics, black people are generally prosecuted MUCH MUCH more harshly compared to white people in the United States for the same crimes. This is even when adjusted for factors like income, education, etc. There is arguably some racism here. The problem for me is that this is the problem that needs to be solved. Giving people a "leg up" in other areas doesn't do anything to address this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Given the fact that the multicultural experiment is in the process of failing but nobody is applying the brakes and there's a few studies about showing that 'diverse' population groups don't mix well I don't doubt that we'll see an increase in racism (from all sides) in the near future.
    You talking about the US or Europe when you say the "multicultural experiment" is failing? What does that really mean? What is the failure, and if you think it is failing, what do you think should be done? End all immigration? Split up mixed populations? ??
    I'm pretty sure he's referring to Europe. The problem seems to be one of assimilation. In the US we have a culture that encourages assimilation while retaining their culture. In Europe, particularly in regard to some very vocal muslim communities this idea doesn't exist. I'm not sure how over-stated this problem is however, since I'm not European.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    The problem with the idea of privilege is that its proponents are woefully under-equipped to sell it in a palatable way to the masses. I think it's quite clear that it exists, and that racism is something far more systematic, but the left just don't seem to understand that most people aren't particularly bright and would benefit from a more reductionist explanation as opposed to the rather aggressive representation of 'privilege' currently peddled on/in tmblr/instagram/twitter/student campuses. This aggressiveness stifles debate (and it is a debate that needs to be had) and pushes people further to the right.
    Agreed, a lot of the people complaining about the idea of privilege come off as people who just want something to be offended about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Look; a post that makes the assumption that the reason why more people aren't following the 'left' is that we have too many stupid people.
    The left is drowning in as much stupidity as the right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    I believe the answer would be to remove rules that demand diversity for the sake of diversity.
    Agree entirely. Hiring somebody because of their skin color is as absurd as not hiring somebody because of their skin color in my book.

  20. #20
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    What's interesting is that while this is backed up by statistics, black people are generally prosecuted MUCH MUCH more harshly compared to white people in the United States for the same crimes. This is even when adjusted for factors like income, education, etc. There is arguably some racism here. The problem for me is that this is the problem that needs to be solved. Giving people a "leg up" in other areas doesn't do anything to address this problem.
    It's a bit of a catch 22. Black people generally receive harsher punishments because the idea is that they are repeat offenders. The longer that they stay off the street, the better. They're considered repeat offenders because statistically they ARE. However, the reason that they're repeat offenders is often because they get harsh punishments, spend years in prison, and are unable to adapt to civilian life once they're out, so they turn back to crime, making the statistic true.

    From the LEO side, part of the problem is that for many criminals, prison isn't a punishment. For a lot of gangs, prison is college, where they learn from their elders. For the more business oriented, prison is often just a different customer base. Worse yet, the people who might try to reform their lives after prison find it hard to do so because of the stigma involved for one, but mostly because they don't know how to return to being civilians. I know this is a bit of a side track, but this -much like anything else in the world worth discussing- has a lot of other things that loop into it.

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