If anything, after witnessing recent pictures etc from around Bakhmut, I'm convinced Ukraine might be too conservative with their casualty reports and russian losses are in fact much higher.
If anything, after witnessing recent pictures etc from around Bakhmut, I'm convinced Ukraine might be too conservative with their casualty reports and russian losses are in fact much higher.
They will not fit well for Ukraine muddy terrain, it is light protected, BMP-3 will pen easily, not stabilized gun, not possible to shoot in move, new entry 105 mm ammo will be put more strain on logistic. I guess France delivers what they have in stock, phased out. I don't understand why they continue to build 6x6, go 4x4 if you need faster and lighter vehicle, go 8x8 if you need bigger better protected vehicle.Originally Posted by VARRAKK
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/amx_10_rc.htm
And in typical internet nerd fashion, the first comment I read about it on Twitter was: "These are not TANKS!"
Well, they would be wrong.And in typical internet nerd fashion, the first comment I read about it on Twitter was: "These are not TANKS!"
Armor or mobility, not even gun is what defines the class of a vehicle.
It performs the role of a Light Tank, ergo it is a Light Tank.
6 wheel drives got very good off road capabilities. That sacrifices wheels make instead of tracks more than makes up for it.
And since it is so light, doesn't need them. Speed, range and reduced maintenance makes them very good for Ukraine.
Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???
"Light" is a weight class not a doctrinal purpose. If you can draw a distinction between a wheeled "light tank" and an IFV with a 105mm that holds in all cases, good luck to you.Well, they would be wrong.And in typical internet nerd fashion, the first comment I read about it on Twitter was: "These are not TANKS!"
Armor or mobility, not even gun is what defines the class of a vehicle.
It performs the role of a Light Tank, ergo it is a Light Tank.
6 wheel drives got very good off road capabilities. That sacrifices wheels make instead of tracks more than makes up for it.
And since it is so light, doesn't need them. Speed, range and reduced maintenance makes them very good for Ukraine.
The US is playing with IFVs with 105mm cannons and 57mm AP resistant frontal armor. You can't say that's "less light tanky" than the AMX-10s France is providing.
To really strike this doctrinal point home. THIS is the replacement in the french doctrine for the AMX-10s, intended for the same "role" as the AMX-10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBRC_Jaguar
"Light tank"?
Last edited by Lallante; January 5 2023 at 08:42:40 AM.
glad this isn't found on fhc oh wai-And in typical internet nerd fashion, the first comment I read about it on Twitter was: "These are not TANKS!"
Yeah, the thing is: both Wiki and Oxford Languages list "tracks" as an identifier for tanks. Whereas AFVs can both have wheels or tracks.glad this isn't found on fhc oh wai-And in typical internet nerd fashion, the first comment I read about it on Twitter was: "These are not TANKS!"
Though this doesn't matter a single bit. The Ukraine will happily put them to good use, regardless of what internet nerds would like to classify them as.
Especially as this sets a precedence of a western nation directly sending battle field tanks to the Ukraine, rather then in those ring swap arrangements with eastern European nations. Previously, western/NATO nations restricted their direct supply to IFVs or AA tanks like the Gepard, if I'm not mistaken.
This is more important then obsolete AMX
There are gepards in ukraine, in operational use.
Tracks doesn't make a vehicle better.
You want tracks when it is for particularly rough terrain or when you exceed a certain weight limit.
Fuel efficiency goes down, wear and tear is extreme.
Tracked vehicle must be transported to and from areas they are operating in.
Loading and unloading takes time, trucks hauling them are slow. During this hole time they are vulnerable.
ATGM Missiles being as effective as they are, armor are of less importance. You need counter measures now.
Why nations investing in vehicles like Boxer and Stryker.
Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???
I am also vulnerable during hole time.
"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang
It's lucky Ukraine isnt a muddy place then
What do you prefer to drag out of the mud? 15tons or 45tons?It's lucky Ukraine isnt a muddy place then
Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???
The US will send Bradleys, we will send Marder IFVs to Ukraine.
40 Marder is the first estimate (they will send more I'd guess), a Patriot battery as well.
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/inn...arder-101.html
Ukraine is already using the Gepard and IRIS-T, the latter isn't even in use in the Bundeswehr yet.
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRIS-T_SLM
There's no English wiki entry and the German one is shorter.
nevar forget
Modern MBTs are around 60t. Fun time.What do you prefer to drag out of the mud? 15tons or 45tons?It's lucky Ukraine isnt a muddy place then
Plus I have a feeling after those humvee thunder runs videos, they're going to like it a lot.
Also how the Ukrainians modify the equipment they receive, and how they perform on the 21st Century battlefield, will be vital feedback when it comes to modernising or designing military equipment going forward.
There is no substitute for battlefield experience.
So not only are Ukraine's backers getting to fuck Russia at minimal cost to themselves, but they'll have better equipment going forwards as a bonus.
Marders and Bradleys are going to Ukraine.
There are still M113s and AIFV to be had, but this is good news. I wonder if they will also send AMX-10 IFV with AMX-10 RC 105mm recon.
I would still like to see the US approach more allies to acquire M113 and M109 that could be updated and sent. Plus, the US still has hundreds of M198 155mm systems and many dozens mothballed M270.
Not to mention all of MLRS cluster ammo awaiting disposal.
But no more heavis then this, US Marines Abrams are going to Poland.
Noone could have seen it coming:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...ke-putin-kyiv/
Mind boggles etc. How can an aggressor with history of shelling previously agreed humanitarian corridors behave in such way? It's probably because west sends weapon to Ukraine. It wouldn't have happened if they just surrendered and marched towards mobile crematories russians brought.
Last edited by rufuske; January 6 2023 at 11:56:17 AM.
Gaah! It's so annoying I just have to vent. Sweden has hundreds of CV 90's and we don't even have personell for more than half of them ATM. It's a far superiour IFV to anything the rest of the west has and now we're on our second government that refuses to even talk about sending them. And we can produce them and replace them pretty effin quickly as well. Fkn short sighted, cheapskated cowardly politicians.
It's a bloody perfect chassis for the Ukranians that can do everything from AA drone hunting to mortars shelling trenches.
Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???
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