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Thread: Ukraine: Russian Invasion

  1. #21241
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Everyone except Enlightened Centrists is a retard, basicaly.
    > tips fedora

  2. #21242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    One of my favorite passtimes these past weeks is hearing the copium regarding Russian military from 2 of my mates who are so anti-USA that they went full retard and are pro-Putin.

    It would be gunny if it weren't sad.
    Maybe this just a NL thing, not sure, but the way the Anti-vax (the real nutter fringe not sceptics) went from Covid to Pro-Russia and with that anti-west conspiracy was mind-boggling to me at first. Just glided over. I get it now as a perpetual contrarian mindset but first it was so weird.
    Nope, happened in Germany as well. But that just highlighted what anti-vaxxing campaigns really were: Russian propaganda aimed at destabilizing Europe. You can look at the anti-vaxx channels, they pivoted hard to Russia apologist propaganda within a day of the invasion.
    nevar forget

  3. #21243

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    One of my favorite passtimes these past weeks is hearing the copium regarding Russian military from 2 of my mates who are so anti-USA that they went full retard and are pro-Putin.

    It would be gunny if it weren't sad.
    Maybe this just a NL thing, not sure, but the way the Anti-vax (the real nutter fringe not sceptics) went from Covid to Pro-Russia and with that anti-west conspiracy was mind-boggling to me at first. Just glided over. I get it now as a perpetual contrarian mindset but first it was so weird.
    Nope, happened in Germany as well. But that just highlighted what anti-vaxxing campaigns really were: Russian propaganda aimed at destabilizing Europe. You can look at the anti-vaxx channels, they pivoted hard to Russia apologist propaganda within a day of the invasion.
    Same pattern in Sweden. You have the bot accounts followed by the same idiots sharing it.

  4. #21244
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    My anti-vax friend changing her Facebook name to some odd Russian thing last year makes more sense.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  5. #21245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Eh, it's probably not that clear cut, although there is some overlap. There are many tribes and lots has to do with local peculiarities I'd say.

    From the above example of my 2 hardcore lefty mates, one got vacced right away and was in the "stick the unvaxxed into camps, stupid right wingers" (he also believes the Americans blamed China for the origin of the virus unjustly) while the other one was unvaxxed and totally anti mandatory vax laws which he sees as technofascism.

    There's always people arriving at similar conclusions from completely opposite directions and also people with the same roots branching off opposite to each other. And then it entwines back on the next issue.
    What i said was not a dig at you or what you said.
    Altho i get it now the easy slip once you are a fringe person seems easy. Covid, putin, grain crops, flat earth hahah (again fringe nutters not sceptics).
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  6. #21246
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Eh, it's probably not that clear cut, although there is some overlap. There are many tribes and lots has to do with local peculiarities I'd say.

    From the above example of my 2 hardcore lefty mates, one got vacced right away and was in the "stick the unvaxxed into camps, stupid right wingers" (he also believes the Americans blamed China for the origin of the virus unjustly) while the other one was unvaxxed and totally anti mandatory vax laws which he sees as technofascism.

    There's always people arriving at similar conclusions from completely opposite directions and also people with the same roots branching off opposite to each other. And then it entwines back on the next issue.
    What i said was not a dig at you or what you said.
    Altho i get it now the easy slip once you are a fringe person seems easy. Covid, putin, grain crops, flat earth hahah (again fringe nutters not sceptics).
    Grain crops? Elaborate, please.

  7. #21247
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    nevar forget

  8. #21248
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    With what you have seen last 3 months, do you honestly believe they have any grasp on reality? Shame that Macierewicz dismantled a lot polish army capabilities but our special forces seem still intact. And retired Iraq and Afghan operators suddenly are starting to feel a weird itch. Ask any US Ranger or Delta, that worked with them, what they think about them.

    And we also have a lot of state of the art arty. Our Krabs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHS_Krab) use similiar nato rounds as PzH2000 etc but we have an even more modern fire control system and our drone capabilites are also nothing to sniff at. Israel is one of our main clients and if you know anything about military equipment procurement, that's pretty much they biggest stamp of approval your hardware can get. We just don't brag about it a lot. And our export models are same as what we have in use.

    All things considered we have much modern equipment than Ukraine. But same attitude. If Europe and NATO won't turn their backs on us, this would evolve to a stomp of epic proportions. Just let US fly Strike Eagle and A-10 CAS and CAPs from Rammstein and keep Excalibur rounds flowing from UK. And most importantly send ammo for Leopards, we're buying Abramses now because retards in our govt can't work out the deal to get ammo for Leopards with retards in your govt (and it's mostly our retards fault).
    Last edited by rufuske; May 13 2022 at 09:10:29 PM.

  9. #21249

  10. #21250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Russia left the reality behind a while ago.
    Perhaps this is just a long game for them where they get rolled by NATO after a short war and then they hope for help rebuilding their shit with money from the west. Worked for germany after WW2 or something like that.
    (At this point i am not sure if i should leave a comment here when i am partially sarcastic btw)

  11. #21251
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilabi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Russia left the reality behind a while ago.
    Perhaps this is just a long game for them where they get rolled by NATO after a short war and then they hope for help rebuilding their shit with money from the west. Worked for germany after WW2 or something like that.
    (At this point i am not sure if i should leave a comment here when i am partially sarcastic btw)
    Comment away, it's the internet. Just don't feel offended when someone misreads your sarcasm and proceeds to call out idiocy of your claims.

  12. #21252
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilabi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Russia left the reality behind a while ago.
    Perhaps this is just a long game for them where they get rolled by NATO after a short war and then they hope for help rebuilding their shit with money from the west. Worked for germany after WW2 or something like that.
    (At this point i am not sure if i should leave a comment here when i am partially sarcastic btw)
    Comment away, it's the internet. Just don't feel offended when someone misreads your sarcasm and proceeds to call out idiocy of your claims.
    Not about you really. But the idiocy as you rightfully call it was a "for real" idea of a german general and has been seriously shared by a few people in higher places.
    We reached the point where stupid shit could easily be a serious thought of people in actual control of stuff and not only a lonely village idiot.

  13. #21253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilabi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilabi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Russia left the reality behind a while ago.
    Perhaps this is just a long game for them where they get rolled by NATO after a short war and then they hope for help rebuilding their shit with money from the west. Worked for germany after WW2 or something like that.
    (At this point i am not sure if i should leave a comment here when i am partially sarcastic btw)
    Comment away, it's the internet. Just don't feel offended when someone misreads your sarcasm and proceeds to call out idiocy of your claims.
    Not about you really. But the idiocy as you rightfully call it was a "for real" idea of a german general and has been seriously shared by a few people in higher places.
    We reached the point where stupid shit could easily be a serious thought of people in actual control of stuff and not only a lonely village idiot.
    We've been there for a while already. What's wonderful is finally public starts to notice and calls them out on this shit. Some ossies, the ones mostly who's livelihood likely is closely linked to doing bussines with russia, are reacting in such way. Or Macron. It's natural. We had a general who stated in most popular news sources that russian kiev convoy is not stalled but 'building pipeline to bring fuel to the frontlines' and it's all part of a plan, I shit you not. While every credible nato source including uk/us MoD etc were stating otherwise. If copium was a traded commodity you could earn a fortune.

    Or it's Ukraine wining propaganda war as tankies like to spin it.
    Last edited by rufuske; May 13 2022 at 10:57:23 PM.

  14. #21254
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    To think, not too many years ago I was genuinely wondering whether it'd be worth learning Russian. If they had just managed to not annoy anyone for a few decades I feel like they'd have been massive beneficiaries of global warming. Arctic trade routes opening up, and the world's new most important choke point (Bering straights, once north west passage is ice free) under their influence. Retreat of the permafrost opening up access to fossil fuel and mineral resources while everyone else is running out, new farmland appearing as the world starves, population decline resolved (because it's now a reasonable emigration destination for people other than steroid junkies), Sitting literally adjacent to both EU, Asian & US markets...

    I really was thinking in terms a potential golden age for Russia. In the end I decided all of this would likely not be in effect during my working life so didn't bother. I'd also forgotten that it was populated by Russians, a victim complex and a golden age don't seem compatible.

  15. #21255
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    I'm tending to think Ukraine can really gain back all occupied territory north of Crimea relative soonish. It seems that the Kharkiv counteroffensive is successful and Ukrainian troops are on the Russian border, add the destroyed Russian armor, roughly 1-2 BTGs recently in one swoop in the northeast.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...essment-may-13

    There're 2 big questions, how the Ukraine can offensive fight Russian troops on plain land like in the east, Donetsk area etc. and how to get back Crimea as Crimea is very easy to defend by land.
    New military western hardware+support hopefully will accelerate it, but i hope for a complete meltdown of Russian army parts. Something like this, https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com..._73_destroyed/
    just more often or on a bigger scale may lead to that meltdown and russian forces retreat/flee without fighting.


    There lurks that big question mark behind all this, will Putin use a tactical nuke in case Ukraine can gain back all occupied territory or in case a complete meltdown of russian army parts.
    Last edited by Jori McKie; May 14 2022 at 08:21:43 AM.
    Does a population have informed consent when that population is not taught the inner workings of its monetary system, and then is drawn, all unknowing, into economic adventures?

  16. #21256
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    Crimea is only attached to Russia by a bridge they built, if they can destroy that and harry their naval/air attempts to resupply then they get to employ some of that siege warfare themselves

    A note that though the sham of independent states approach was used for Donets/Luhansk Crimea was simply annexed, attacking it would give Putin domestic Casus Bellum. Remember back home he still insists this isn't a war, he gets more popular support and legal powers with regard to conscription if he gets to claim Russia is under attack, even if it is annexed land and they're already really at war.

    Leave Crimea until last if you're going to try.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    Just for the record, "sending a needy text" is never the right answer.

  17. #21257
    Takeshi Nuwen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Holy moly.
    Those attempted river crossing by the ruskies was an even worse clusterfuck then i thought. Thats more then a BTG lost here:
    ...
    You have seen "Oh panzer of the lake", but were you prepared for "Oh BTG of the river"?

    Regarding retaking Crimea & ordering some sort of nuclear strike, the two interesting questions probably are "would Russia consider Ukraine retaking Crimea to be a existential threat", and "does anybody on the Russian side actually give a shit about rules lawyering at that point anymore".
    Last edited by Takeshi Nuwen; May 14 2022 at 09:33:14 AM. Reason: formatting

  18. #21258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeshi Nuwen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Holy moly.
    Those attempted river crossing by the ruskies was an even worse clusterfuck then i thought. Thats more then a BTG lost here:
    ...
    You have seen "Oh panzer of the lake", but were you prepared for "Oh BTG of the river"?

    Regarding retaking Crimea & ordering some sort of nuclear strike, the two interesting questions probably are "would Russia consider Ukraine retaking Crimea to be a existential threat", and "does anybody on the Russian side actually give a shit about rules lawyering at that point anymore".
    They did 3 failed crossings. Total over 200 vehicles lost.
    In addition, there are troops and vehicles trapped between river and UA forces.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  19. #21259

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    Ive never wanted to commit suicide by motorbike so badly as when i just saw the ukrainian ELEEK electric motor bike they delivered to their snipers.

  20. #21260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeshi Nuwen View Post
    Regarding retaking Crimea & ordering some sort of nuclear strike, the two interesting questions probably are "would Russia consider Ukraine retaking Crimea to be a existential threat", and "does anybody on the Russian side actually give a shit about rules lawyering at that point anymore".
    I agree that Putin appears he doesn't give a shit about rules anymore, well kind of, otherwise he would have called this officially a war and everything that comes with that already. He has to fear that an all out official war will result in a domestic revolution. On the other hand he has to consider the reaction of the West and somewhat China if he uses a tactical nuke so he is kind of restricted aka bind to rules.

    You can discuss the reaction of the West in case of a tactical nuke but if you think it through even if you start with a low response, after escalation and escalation, it will end in a nuclear war at least on a tactical level in Europe. I really hope we won't see that end of the rope.
    Does a population have informed consent when that population is not taught the inner workings of its monetary system, and then is drawn, all unknowing, into economic adventures?

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