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Thread: Ukraine: Russian Invasion

  1. #21461

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    And realistically, even if the war would stop today and all of the sanctions would be lifted today it would take more than a year to recover financially from this. This years crops are pretty much done for already, Russians have nationalized just about everything westeners have had left in there.

  2. #21462
    rufuske's Avatar
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    At the moment everyone in Europe is scrambling for indpedence from Russian fossils. Cynically ignoring human factor and Ukraine situation Russia already lost big time. Now let's see how the june-july counterattack pans out. Because all the panic headlines with this city or this village lost coupled with reported Russian losses only proves that Ukraine is employing deep defence to great effect. The more headlines you'll see to the tone of Ukraine should cede land, this cannot go on etc the closer Russia is to their breaking point. For now front lines will be either stale, moving to Ukraine advantage or Russia makes neglible gains at a huge material and manpower cost.
    Last edited by rufuske; June 10 2022 at 09:10:33 PM.

  3. #21463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Err, Russia already controls like 80% of Ukraine that it wants
    Controls on a map? In reality, no, it's an active warzone with almost no guarantee of civilian compliance and Ukraine that's not letting it go.

  4. #21464
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Err, Russia already controls like 80% of Ukraine that it wants
    Controls on a map? In reality, no, it's an active warzone with almost no guarantee of civilian compliance and Ukraine that's not letting it go.

  5. #21465
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Err, Russia already controls like 80% of Ukraine that it wants

  6. #21466

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Err, Russia already controls like 80% of Ukraine that it wants
    Before or after shifting the goalpost several times?
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  7. #21467

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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    And realistically, even if the war would stop today and all of the sanctions would be lifted today it would take more than a year to recover financially from this. This years crops are pretty much done for already, Russians have nationalized just about everything westeners have had left in there.
    Lots of Dutch farmers in Ukr and so far the harvest and export is going way better than predicted.
    Would be interested in actual national numbers and not anecdotal news reports of course.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  8. #21468
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    And realistically, even if the war would stop today and all of the sanctions would be lifted today it would take more than a year to recover financially from this. This years crops are pretty much done for already, Russians have nationalized just about everything westeners have had left in there.
    Lots of Dutch farmers in Ukr and so far the harvest and export is going way better than predicted.
    Would be interested in actual national numbers and not anecdotal news reports of course.
    If France follows through with their claims of opening up for ship export of grain, then we should see some proper progress.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  9. #21469

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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    And realistically, even if the war would stop today and all of the sanctions would be lifted today it would take more than a year to recover financially from this. This years crops are pretty much done for already, Russians have nationalized just about everything westeners have had left in there.
    Lots of Dutch farmers in Ukr and so far the harvest and export is going way better than predicted.
    Would be interested in actual national numbers and not anecdotal news reports of course.
    If France follows through with their claims of opening up for ship export of grain, then we should see some proper progress.
    I'm enthusiastic about France's vague claim of possibly helping in some way, perhaps. Hopefully this is better than the Mariupol rescue mission.
    And France can not act in the Black Sea without Turkey's permission.

  10. #21470
    August's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Time is on whoseís side? Ukraine will get more weapons but is there any conceivable measure that will bring the price of oil down?? I already have no interest in the Ukrainian war and there will be much less public support here when we are all in a recession. Putin might be betting that, given enough time, Washington will blink first. Iím not sure heís wrong.
    What has Washington got to do with it? I thought USA was mostly sitting this one out and letting EU take point on supporting Ukraine. And I don't see the EU forgetting about this war any time soon, it's uncomfortably close to home.
    Thatís an unusual take because itís pretty clearly a proxy war between Russia and the US. Itís our money, our equipment, our intel, and our military advisors and tacticians that are fighting this war. Ukrainians provide the manpower, which is the most important, but they wouldíve been rolled over already if it wasnít for US backing.

    The US is giving Ukraine more than 50 billion, in contrast I believe Germany and France is giving less than 5 billion combined.

  11. #21471
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    And realistically, even if the war would stop today and all of the sanctions would be lifted today it would take more than a year to recover financially from this. This years crops are pretty much done for already, Russians have nationalized just about everything westeners have had left in there.
    Lots of Dutch farmers in Ukr and so far the harvest and export is going way better than predicted.
    Would be interested in actual national numbers and not anecdotal news reports of course.
    If France follows through with their claims of opening up for ship export of grain, then we should see some proper progress.
    I'm enthusiastic about France's vague claim of possibly helping in some way, perhaps. Hopefully this is better than the Mariupol rescue mission.
    And France can not act in the Black Sea without Turkey's permission.
    Getting the grain export up and running benefits us, not some soldiers.
    That is a major incentive.

    Yes the world wants to help Ukraine, but it wants to help themselves even more.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  12. #21472
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    And realistically, even if the war would stop today and all of the sanctions would be lifted today it would take more than a year to recover financially from this. This years crops are pretty much done for already, Russians have nationalized just about everything westeners have had left in there.
    Lots of Dutch farmers in Ukr and so far the harvest and export is going way better than predicted.
    Would be interested in actual national numbers and not anecdotal news reports of course.
    If France follows through with their claims of opening up for ship export of grain, then we should see some proper progress.
    I'm enthusiastic about France's vague claim of possibly helping in some way, perhaps. Hopefully this is better than the Mariupol rescue mission.
    And France can not act in the Black Sea without Turkey's permission.
    France isn't at war with anyone so Turkey has no legal reasons to bar passage
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  13. #21473

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    We just need one Duncan!


  14. #21474

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    Double Post

  15. #21475

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    And realistically, even if the war would stop today and all of the sanctions would be lifted today it would take more than a year to recover financially from this. This years crops are pretty much done for already, Russians have nationalized just about everything westeners have had left in there.
    Lots of Dutch farmers in Ukr and so far the harvest and export is going way better than predicted.
    Would be interested in actual national numbers and not anecdotal news reports of course.
    If France follows through with their claims of opening up for ship export of grain, then we should see some proper progress.
    I'm enthusiastic about France's vague claim of possibly helping in some way, perhaps. Hopefully this is better than the Mariupol rescue mission.
    And France can not act in the Black Sea without Turkey's permission.
    France isn't at war with anyone so Turkey has no legal reasons to bar passage
    Non-Black Sea powers wishing to send a vessel must notify Turkey 15 days prior to the requested passing, and Black Sea states must notify 8 days prior to passage. Also, no more than nine foreign warships, with a total aggregate tonnage of 15,000 tons, may pass at any one time. Furthermore, no single ship heavier than 10,000 tonnes can pass. An aggregate tonnage of all non-Black Sea warships in the Black Sea must be no more than 45,000 tons, with no one nation exceeding 30,000 tons at any given time, and they are permitted to stay in the Black Sea for at most 21 days

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montre..._Straits#Terms
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  16. #21476
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    30,000 tonnes means the French can park a lot of their surface warships in the Black Sea except the CDG and the Mistral.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nch_Navy_ships

    5 modern destroyers, that's how much more than the Black Sea Fleet has?
    Last edited by Joe Appleby; June 12 2022 at 05:55:31 PM.
    nevar forget

  17. #21477
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    30,000 tonnes means the French can park a lot of their surface warships in the Black Sea except the CDG and the Mistral.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nch_Navy_ships

    5 modern destroyers, that's how much more than the Black Sea Fleet has?
    Dunno, seems like a lot.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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  18. #21478

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    Peruns latest video is really interesting as usual

  19. #21479
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  20. #21480
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Having lived through the Cold War overhyping Russian military capabilities is standard practice for securing desired levels of defense spending.

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