Ukraine: Russian Invasion

[VARRAKK]

Hundreds of thousands dying? From laughter how quickly russia folded when facing more than donated cold war equipment and a handful of modern systems?

And please, stop beating nuclear horse, he's dead already.

Poland is considering to trigger NATO Article 4.

Article 4 is generally considered the starting point for major NATO operations, and therefore is intended for either emergencies or situations of urgency.
It officially calls for consultation over military matters when "the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened.
"Upon its invocation, the issue is discussed in the North Atlantic Council, and can formally lead into a joint decision or action (logistic, military, or otherwise) on behalf of the Alliance.

Good. Sounds like a groundwork for move of greater quantity of modern equipment ratified by alliance as a whole. So, no more you first fingerpointing.

It is unlikely Poland calls for Article 5. It doesn't discriminate between intentional or accidental attacks.
Russian military so bad, they hit the wrong country...

Don't know if Poland can demand a no fly zone over Ukraine, as they see danger for further attacks on their territory.

Or if they can force NATO into a compromise where they are going to donate serious amounts of AA to counter Russian aggression.

[rufuske]

Hundreds of thousands dying? From laughter how quickly russia folded when facing more than donated cold war equipment and a handful of modern systems?

And please, stop beating nuclear horse, he's dead already.

Poland is considering to trigger NATO Article 4.

Article 4 is generally considered the starting point for major NATO operations, and therefore is intended for either emergencies or situations of urgency.
It officially calls for consultation over military matters when "the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened.
"Upon its invocation, the issue is discussed in the North Atlantic Council, and can formally lead into a joint decision or action (logistic, military, or otherwise) on behalf of the Alliance.

Good. Sounds like a groundwork for move of greater quantity of modern equipment ratified by alliance as a whole. So, no more you first fingerpointing.

It is unlikely Poland calls for Article 5. It doesn't discriminate between intentional or accidental attacks.
Russian military so bad, they hit the wrong country...

Don't know if Poland can demand a no fly zone over Ukraine, as they see danger for further attacks on their territory.

Or if they can force NATO into a compromise where they are going to donate serious amounts of AA to counter Russian aggression.

I don't think they hit wrong country because so bad, simply missed intended target. Check my edit of previous post.

Re Ukraine no fly zone - out of question, same as before. But putting more modern, long range AA on Polish-Ukrainian border? Yes, please. Depending on systems it puts Lviv as well under umbrella, might reach even further.

And if it resorts to NATO acting as it is being forced to assist in air defence of Polish-Ukrainian border, then russian propaganda was right all along and it's an useless alliance.

[helgur]

Poland is considering to trigger NATO Article 4

You know that Poland also triggered article 4 on February the 24th, right? This doesn't neccessarily mean shit.

[rufuske]

Poland is considering to trigger NATO Article 4

You know that Poland also triggered article 4 on February the 24th, right? This doesn't neccessarily mean shit.

It means exactly what article 4 is. Nato members will meet and discuss how to respond. Which if agreed that nothing happens russian propaganda will have a field day with.

Also polish officials confirm it was russian kh-101 missile and summoned russian ambasador. Meanwhile us official say it was ukrainian launched at russian one. Plot thickens...

[Malcanis]

Starting to look like the missile was a stray Ukrainian S-300

[Lief Siddhe]

welcome to war

[VARRAKK]

Starting to look like the missile was a stray Ukrainian S-300

Missing S-300 or a Russian missile that could have been damaged by AA.

[rufuske]

Starting to look like the missile was a stray Ukrainian S-300

Missing S-300 or a Russian missile that could have been damaged by AA.

Not likely. Here's a credible take from... r/ncd ....

https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredible..._stupid_right/

And it wasn't S-300, it's a Kh-101, you can google photos of remains yourself or find it on r/ukraine or r/ncd. Reuters etc are again regurgitating russian propaganda served via TASS. Why it was repeated by some US official, I don't know.

[VARRAKK]

Starting to look like the missile was a stray Ukrainian S-300

Missing S-300 or a Russian missile that could have been damaged by AA.

Not likely. Here's a credible take from... r/ncd ....

https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredible..._stupid_right/

And it wasn't S-300, it's a Kh-101, you can google photos of remains yourself or find it on r/ukraine or r/ncd. Reuters etc are again regurgitating russian propaganda served via TASS. Why it was repeated by some US official, I don't know.

Biden has said it was unlikely the missile was fired from inside Russia (don't know if that includes Belarus).
US it not normally wrong about these things.

[Hel OWeen]

Why it was repeated by some US official, I don't know.

I have no idea who's right and who's wrong here. But if it indeed was a Russian missile started by th Russians and not by the Ukraine, then I think such statements from US officials - assuming they do know better, serve the purpose of calming things down a bit. Buying time while working behind the scenes to come up with a unisono (and sane) NATO response.

[rufuske]

To reiterate:

When you have two targets but only one missile: (coordinates of Kyiv: 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E, coordinates of Lviv: 49.8429 ° N, 24.0311 ° E. Coordinates of the landing point of two missiles in Poland, as a result of which two people died: 50.4501° N, 24.0311° E.)

Latitude of Kyiv, longitude of Lviv - blamo, Poland gets a missile.

Again with picture and a map:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredible...y_one_missile/



I would be laughing my ass off if 2 people haven't died.

And yes Biden is not wrong. It couldn't be fired from russia because of range etc. It must have been fired from territory of Belarus, as I already said. And it's not the first time they launch from there.

[depili]

the thing to remember is that you can always take the x coordinate of some place and y coordinate of another place and arrive at your chosen xy point. We will know more once the type of missile has been identified to a high degree of confidentiality.

[theBlind]

the thing to remember is that you can always take the x coordinate of some place and y coordinate of another place and arrive at your chosen xy point. We will know more once the type of missile has been identified to a high degree of confidentiality.

Frankly Kyiv and Lviv are a "bit" removed from "take two random places, mix their coordinates to get wherever you want to go". Seeing this as a data entry error is at least plausible, if the above coordinates are correct.

[Candy Crush]

Starting to look like the missile was a stray Ukrainian S-300

Missing S-300 or a Russian missile that could have been damaged by AA.

Not likely. Here's a credible take from... r/ncd ....

https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredible..._stupid_right/

And it wasn't S-300, it's a Kh-101, you can google photos of remains yourself or find it on r/ukraine or r/ncd. Reuters etc are again regurgitating russian propaganda served via TASS. Why it was repeated by some US official, I don't know.

Biden has said it was unlikely the missile was fired from inside Russia (don't know if that includes Belarus).
US it not normally wrong about these things.

Biden said that it’s “Unlikely a Russian missile.”
Quite possibly it was a Ukrainian S300.
However it could be a Russian one as the Russians have been using older S300s in a ground attack role due to shortages of Iskanders, Tochkas, Kalibrs and other dedicated ground attack missiles.
They've also been using K300P Bastion anti ship missiles against ground targets as well.

[depili]

Starting to look like the missile was a stray Ukrainian S-300

Missing S-300 or a Russian missile that could have been damaged by AA.

Not likely. Here's a credible take from... r/ncd ....

https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredible..._stupid_right/

And it wasn't S-300, it's a Kh-101, you can google photos of remains yourself or find it on r/ukraine or r/ncd. Reuters etc are again regurgitating russian propaganda served via TASS. Why it was repeated by some US official, I don't know.

Biden has said it was unlikely the missile was fired from inside Russia (don't know if that includes Belarus).
US it not normally wrong about these things.

Biden said that it’s “Unlikely a Russian missile.”
Quite possibly it was a Ukrainian S300.
However it could be a Russian one as the Russians have been using older S300s in a ground attack role due to shortages of Iskanders, Tochkas, Kalibrs and other dedicated ground attack missiles.
They've also been using K300P Bastion anti ship missiles against ground targets as well.

No, that isn't what he said, he said it is unlikely that the missile was fired from Russia. I know the difference might be hard to understand. But we shall know more in due time.

[rufuske]

Look at the replies of said tweet. Those are not same parts. One is slanted other is concaved. It's a Kh-101. Everyone (me included) is runing amok citing anything they can find on twitter, polish newsportal just cited some random twitter that claimed Biden made statement it was ukrainian S300. No such statement has been made, or at least I can't find it, apart from the one discussed above. But circular citations started and others re-reported it. Meanwhile russian telegram channels are already celebrating. I guess they won information warfare on this one, at least for the time being. Let's see what the rest of the day will bring.

[Candy Crush]

From what I read, main argument for ground-attack S300 is lack of shrapnel. Kh101 uses fragmentation and proximity fuse: it means the tires you see in the photo would have been shredded and there would be no crater.
At the end, NATO will downplay the event, like they did with military drone from Ukraine crashed into Zagreb in March.

[VARRAKK]

Pictures of it shows its a S300.
Ukrainian Air Defense missile that missed its target and crashed in Poland.

Still Russia's fault for attacking so close to Poland's border. Mistakes easily happen, and these types can have disastrous consequences.

[Lallante]

US military is briefing that its likely Ukrainian air defence gone astray, so cool your jets

[Lief Siddhe]

At the end, NATO will downplay the event, like they did with military drone from Ukraine crashed into Zagreb in March.