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Thread: Ukraine: Russian Invasion

  1. #22681

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Sweden is moving towards giving Ukraine 12 Archers.

    Should boost their sales of this amazing artillery.
    About time.
    Unfortunately that is probably false reporting, it all hinges on the previous study of how many archers they could sell, at that point to the USA.

  2. #22682
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Sweden is moving towards giving Ukraine 12 Archers.

    Should boost their sales of this amazing artillery.
    About time.
    Unfortunately that is probably false reporting, it all hinges on the previous study of how many archers they could sell, at that point to the USA.
    Försvarsmakten said on Tuesday they could give Ukraine 12 of their 48 Archer systems.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  3. #22683

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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Sweden is moving towards giving Ukraine 12 Archers.

    Should boost their sales of this amazing artillery.
    About time.
    Unfortunately that is probably false reporting, it all hinges on the previous study of how many archers they could sell, at that point to the USA.
    Försvarsmakten said on Tuesday they could give Ukraine 12 of their 48 Archer systems.
    Yeah it looks like it's actually happening at long last.

    About damn time.

  4. #22684
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Sweden is moving towards giving Ukraine 12 Archers.

    Should boost their sales of this amazing artillery.
    What makes any one 155mm SPG compatible with Excalibur ammo etc better than any other?

  5. #22685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Sweden is moving towards giving Ukraine 12 Archers.

    Should boost their sales of this amazing artillery.
    What makes any one 155mm SPG compatible with Excalibur ammo etc better than any other?
    Gun still affects range. Excalibur is hideously expensive to use so they are used sparingly.
    Loader affects ROF.

    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  6. #22686
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Yes but what specifically makes it different from any other post-2010 deployed 155mm SPG? Is autoloading rare? Are tired wheels rare? Is 20km range for dumb ammo rare? Is deployment/redeployment/ROF unusually quick?

    Not saying you are wrong but just curious? Compare it to other similar modern 155mm Nato SPGs, what's it's USP? Rate of Fire?
    Last edited by Lallante; October 27 2022 at 11:44:54 AM.

  7. #22687
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    Archer got 40km range with bleed ammo. 60+ km with Excalibur.
    It can be used very close to the front line because it is very well armored and fast.
    Also the fastest shoot and scoot feature and rough off road capabilities.
    Counter Battery systems are a huge danger to artillery units, this is where it truly excels.

    I think only the Pzh2000 got higher ROF (by a big margin).
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  8. #22688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes but what specifically makes it different from any other post-2010 deployed 155mm SPG? Is autoloading rare? Are tired wheels rare? Is 20km range for dumb ammo rare? Is deployment/redeployment/ROF unusually quick?

    Not saying you are wrong but just curious? Compare it to other similar modern 155mm Nato SPGs, what's it's USP? Rate of Fire?
    in the grand scheeme of things it's comparable to other modern 155m SPGs, just very much geared towards shoot&scoot with it's autoloader.

  9. #22689
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    On a different note best estimates are that the Russians have now passed 70,000 KIA. There are also estimates based on new graves spotted from space that the death toll at Mariupol could be as high as 87,000 dead.

    Currently the Ukrainians advances are slowing due to weather, logistical issues and entrenched Russian opposition, although the current Russian plan seems to be pull out the experienced troops and shove the conscripts into hold the line. With winter approaching logistics will be king, so both sides will struggle to keep their troops warm and feed, although the Ukrainians seem to have the edge there.

    Better news Australia is finally sending 30 more Bushmasters although there is a big push to get the Government to send more.

  10. #22690
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Archer got 40km range with bleed ammo. 60+ km with Excalibur.
    It can be used very close to the front line because it is very well armored and fast.
    Also the fastest shoot and scoot feature and rough off road capabilities.
    Counter Battery systems are a huge danger to artillery units, this is where it truly excels.

    I think only the Pzh2000 got higher ROF (by a big margin).
    Isnt (one of) the "thing" that it can unload a full salvo and be on the move before the first shell lands (range dependent I'm sure)?
    If we decide to send some then its a question of do we do training before or after we ship it? It an easy but still advanced system.

    How long did it take to train up Ukr for the 777 and Pzh?
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  11. #22691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowa [NSN] View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Archer got 40km range with bleed ammo. 60+ km with Excalibur.
    It can be used very close to the front line because it is very well armored and fast.
    Also the fastest shoot and scoot feature and rough off road capabilities.
    Counter Battery systems are a huge danger to artillery units, this is where it truly excels.

    I think only the Pzh2000 got higher ROF (by a big margin).
    Isnt (one of) the "thing" that it can unload a full salvo and be on the move before the first shell lands (range dependent I'm sure)?
    If we decide to send some then its a question of do we do training before or after we ship it? It an easy but still advanced system.

    How long did it take to train up Ukr for the 777 and Pzh?
    Not a full 6 shot SI salvo, but 3 and go which makes it impossible to counter.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  12. #22692
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    Pzh2000 training was done before (or while, but on different machines?) shipping (simple stuff was missing like there was no ukr translation for the user interface, there were few ukr translators available period). Training time was 3 months, 7days a week for a very barebones curriculum, normal training time is 6(?) months with trainers and students speaking the same language.

    The ukr soldiers then basically went into the field the next day.
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  13. #22693
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    Quote Originally Posted by theBlind View Post
    Pzh2000 training was done before (or while, but on different machines?) shipping (simple stuff was missing like there was no ukr translation for the user interface, there were few ukr translators available period). Training time was 3 months, 7days a week for a very barebones curriculum, normal training time is 6(?) months with trainers and students speaking the same language.

    The ukr soldiers then basically went into the field the next day.
    Funny you should mention that, I was thinking the same. I doubt we have Ukrainian language built in, but I god damn hope that switching to English is just a setting.
    Edit: But assuming something similar for Archer if we send it, good to go mid-winter/around spring then.*

    But that is some proper speed-run training, jesus... But they seem to work it pretty effective from the little I have seen, I guess they keep OpSec pretty tight around where they are and what they do hence not much on social media. Which makes perfect sense.
    But speaking of training, I was "annoyed" to see the early vids of them using the 777 and not putting down the "recoil-legs" properly and the gun jumped around when firing (not what impact that actually has tbh). Seems that it also look better now anyway.


    * Speaking of winter, someone mentioned that at least Sweden/Finland/Norway could get a very cold winter this year, El Ninjo related. I put it down to speculation and that we like to write about the weather but if we play along and its true and its true for Europe, the irony if Russia suffers (on the battlefield) even more due to a very cold winter...
    Last edited by Lowa [NSN]; October 27 2022 at 04:09:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    I would create a dragon made out of vaginas. Then I would create a dragon made out of dicks. Then I would have them fight to the death.

  14. #22694

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    As we're nearing them, can a fellow U.S. American explain what a GOP win in the midterms, i.e. gaining the House majority, would mean for supporting the Ukraine from that point on? Can they block spending or shipping equipment? And would they do so?

  15. #22695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    As we're nearing them, can a fellow U.S. American explain what a GOP win in the midterms, i.e. gaining the House majority, would mean for supporting the Ukraine from that point on? Can they block spending or shipping equipment? And would they do so?
    There would be more belly-aching about "We've already spent X, why do we need to spend Y more?" and "Other countries can step up, can't they?". I suppose it would come down to each legislator's personal views on Ukraine, Russia, and whether they want to help Cheeto build a Trump Tower in Moscow. But more Republicans would not bode well for Ukraine.
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  16. #22696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    As we're nearing them, can a fellow U.S. American explain what a GOP win in the midterms, i.e. gaining the House majority, would mean for supporting the Ukraine from that point on? Can they block spending or shipping equipment? And would they do so?
    There would be more belly-aching about "We've already spent X, why do we need to spend Y more?" and "Other countries can step up, can't they?". I suppose it would come down to each legislator's personal views on Ukraine, Russia, and whether they want to help Cheeto build a Trump Tower in Moscow. But more Republicans would not bode well for Ukraine.
    More specifically, we will see the Republicans threaten a government shutdown and/or debt ceiling default unless they get to cut social spending, and needless to say that would threaten our ability to send any aide at all (much less function as a nation). Whether they also go for Ukraine funding specifically is sort of up in the air, but the presumptive leader of their caucus has already signaled that he's open to curtailing it. There is a very vocal minority that is obviously pro-Putin, but my guess is that when push comes to shove the majority of the House Republicans will back more spending if the arms manufacturers who stand to profit lobby them for it.
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  17. #22697
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    Considering the fact that Tucker Carlson is being used on Russian TV to push the cause, a GOP win is probably a very bad thing (as if it isn't already). Not only will there be probable issues with UKR funding, they are going to probably nuke the Jan 6th committee as well as kill the student loan write off

  18. #22698
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    Back in the day you could at least bank on the GOP shitting all over Russia and making sure the Russians have a bad time.
    nevar forget

  19. #22699

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowa [NSN] View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlind View Post
    Pzh2000 training was done before (or while, but on different machines?) shipping (simple stuff was missing like there was no ukr translation for the user interface, there were few ukr translators available period). Training time was 3 months, 7days a week for a very barebones curriculum, normal training time is 6(?) months with trainers and students speaking the same language.

    The ukr soldiers then basically went into the field the next day.
    Funny you should mention that, I was thinking the same. I doubt we have Ukrainian language built in, but I god damn hope that switching to English is just a setting.
    Edit: But assuming something similar for Archer if we send it, good to go mid-winter/around spring then.*

    But that is some proper speed-run training, jesus... But they seem to work it pretty effective from the little I have seen, I guess they keep OpSec pretty tight around where they are and what they do hence not much on social media. Which makes perfect sense.
    But speaking of training, I was "annoyed" to see the early vids of them using the 777 and not putting down the "recoil-legs" properly and the gun jumped around when firing (not what impact that actually has tbh). Seems that it also look better now anyway.


    * Speaking of winter, someone mentioned that at least Sweden/Finland/Norway could get a very cold winter this year, El Ninjo related. I put it down to speculation and that we like to write about the weather but if we play along and its true and its true for Europe, the irony if Russia suffers (on the battlefield) even more due to a very cold winter...
    Totes NOT any NATO military advisors on holidays in UKR
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  20. #22700

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    Thanks for your insights, folks!

    That doesn't sound too promising, considering the momentum of voting polls swinging in the GOP's direction (if I'm not mistaken) ... as if we haven't enough problems to deal with already.

    Let's face it: when it comes to readily available military equipment that could be shipped to the Ukraine, no UKR ally beats the U.S.

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