Ukraine: Russian Invasion

[Malcanis]

It makes you wonder the balance of value that existed between the soviet states. Just how important from an academic, technological, productive standpoint were the Russians compared to the east germans, ukrainians, georgians, armenians etc? Or has there really been such an immense brain drain within Russia over the past few decades?

There has in fact been a huge emigration from Russia. Communist Russia treated the Warsaw Pact nations like imperial colonies and extracted a lot of wealth from them, but there was plenty of Russian talent involved too. Right now though they're in that cyclic demographic squeeze, combined with every educated or skilled young Russian who can get the fuck out having gotten the fuck out in the last few months.

[August]

It makes you wonder the balance of value that existed between the soviet states. Just how important from an academic, technological, productive standpoint were the Russians compared to the east germans, ukrainians, georgians, armenians etc? Or has there really been such an immense brain drain within Russia over the past few decades?

Every math department in the United States and France worth its salt has at least 30% Russian emigres among the faculty.

[Hel OWeen]

...

e: also propaganda, Ukr is really good at it.

Let's be honest, it's really easy with the kind of performance and standards russian army presents. I wouldn't even call it propaganda on Ukr side. Just showing how things are or not talking at all when things don't go their way.

Don't kid yourself, theres quite a lot of propaganda on our side too, this is how this works. It's just not as easy to discern from Russian propaganda, because Russians are just so extremely incompetent at everything they do it's easier to stretch the truth for the Ukrainians to make it sound plausible.

I have not seen blatant propaganda from Ukrainian sources, apart for some odd photos of pets and fighters.

Guiding western journalists through that alley of dead civilians in my book counts as propaganda. Don't mistake propaganda (only) for blatant lies. You can make facts work very well in your way, if "presented" right. And that's the master class of propaganda, because it can't be rebuted later. Lies OTOH sooner or later come to light, making the one publishing them look really bad.

So presenting the unaltered truth is now propaganda?

Yes it is, especially when presented/published in certain ways. It serves a cause. Remember early in the war when the Russians bombarded that hospital? And remember how this was symbolized by the picture of that pregnant woman? It did serve a cause. It touched on our empathy. Well done, goal achieved. But the truth could have been equally truthfull be comminicated w/o pictures/videos by just stating the fact that a bombardment had happened and that there were x casualities.

I don't condem the Ukraine for doing so. It's just naive to believe they're not into the propaganda battle as much as they're in the real fight. After all - propaganda is the weapon of the underdog.

[Malcanis]

I would say that Zelensky has played the propaganda war with considerable skill

[Candy Crush]

Not only propaganda, also hybrid warfare and psy ops at unprecedent level

Just today:
“Ukraine Intelligence Says Coup to Remove Cancer Stricken Putin Underway”
“Russian Oligarch Secretly Recorded Saying Putin Has Blood Cancer”

[Spartan Dax]

In other news, the Swedish Social democrats today voted to apply for NATO. That creates a substantial majority in the Parliment and tomorrow on the 16:th the government will approve an application to NATO.

In a completely unrelated scheduling accident the Finnish president will adress the Swedish parliment on the 17:th. Sorry Norwegian bro's, no love for you this year.

[rufuske]

I would say that Zelensky has played the propaganda war with considerable skill

Tbh at that point in time I feel he has more sway with EU public than native politicians.

[Malcanis]

I would say that Zelensky has played the propaganda war with considerable skill

Tbh at that point in time I feel he has more sway with EU public than native politicians.

Frankly I'm jealous of the Ukrainians

[rufuske]

I would say that Zelensky has played the propaganda war with considerable skill

Tbh at that point in time I feel he has more sway with EU public than native politicians.

Frankly I'm jealous of the Ukrainians

Everyone is. Funny thing he was not even that popular before shit hit the fan and had conflicts with Klitschkos for example. But then it did and somehow he managed to navigate it in a way we have all seen. True statesman. A fucking comedian. Uniting and leading with boxers...This timeline...I don't even know, what to say. Meanwhile Europe is stuck with politicians growing more and more disconnected from what majority of population expects of them.

[Maximillian]

The reason pro-Ukrainian propaganda works so well is that it is mostly the truth. You have things like the Ghost of Kviv, but on a whole the images and information coming from the Ukrainian side has truth on its side. That is why they are winning the info war outside of Russia where extreme oppression is needed to control the message, no matter how hard Lavrov or the army of trolls online try the truth is there in video after video, news story after news story.

Journalists are also free it seems to move around Ukrainian control territory without minders or being embedded with the Ukrainian military. This has resulted in some of them getting killed by driving into contested regions. But this unfettered access has allowed ordinary Ukrainians to tell their stories, and giving independent confirmation of the warcrimes, Russian losses and Ukrainian successes (and failures).

Zelensky himself probably saved Ukraine in the first 72 hours. Whether true or not his "I don't need a ride I need ammuntion" reply to a US offer to fly him out sent the message that the leadership was staying, and that allowed him to demand that Ukrainian men also stay and fight. It also sent a message that the Russian invasion wasn't a done deal and allowed support to reach the Ukrainians. Compare that to Afghanistan. There were apparently a few epic last stands by Afghan units but given the fact that the Government fled leading to a stampede for the borders their sacrifices were useless and hence unknown.

Zelensky by comparison also makes Putin look bad as a leader. Whether the stories of Putin's bad health and fear of COVID is true or not his locking himself away and only meeting people at the end of a long guilded table makes him seem remote and out of touch, which feeds into the idea that he doesn't actually know what is going on. Zelensky walks the streets, meets everyone normally, hands out medals, visits soldiers in hospital, and demonstrates that he cares about what happens to the Ukrainian people. Even his unshaven, hagged look during the dark early days gave the impression that he was working around the clock. Putin looks like he spends hours in makeup before making an appearance.

PR firms will study Zelensky but it isn't something you can copy. Zelensky is genuine, that is why people like him.

[Candy Crush]

Ok, now the Russians are totally nuts with their nuke threats against the west, since Finland and Sweden decided to join NATO.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/russia...-nato-expands/

Another Facepalm moment is listed in the article: “The Finns in general should be grateful to Russia for their statehood, for the fact that Finland exists as a country,” Zhuravlyov said. ; yep, once again Russia claims that nations should be grateful that they recognized them as independent country.

[Jori McKie]

News reported a picture with a border stone and Ukrainian soldiers at the north Russian border. I can't shake the feeling we'll see Russian army fail cascading within 1 month. At the very least they lost offensive momentum for now.

It's totally weird i have witnessed so many fail cascadings in EVE and it really is not appropriate but the signs in this real war seems so similar.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...essment-may-15
This is crazy

The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces suffered losses and retreated from an occupied settlement east of Izyum, likely due to a Ukrainian airstrike.[11] Social media also observed Ukrainian fixed-wing aircraft striking the Russian salient in the Izyum area.[12]

[Takeshi Nuwen]

Wouldn't have really called myself a full-on tankie, but before February I actually thought Russia to be a rational enough actor for the whole "preventing wars with close economic ties" to actually work with them (yeah, pls don't mention Georgia & Crimea). Also maybe NATO should stop being meanies, with the whole expansion thing.

But by now I'm "do it faggot!" when they're waving their nukes around. Also: the more the merrier re: NATO & enjoying shitposting on r/noncredibledefense. What a time to be alive.

[Hel OWeen]

I would say that Zelensky has played the propaganda war with considerable skill

Tbh at that point in time I feel he has more sway with EU public than native politicians.

Frankly I'm jealous of the Ukrainians

Everyone is. Funny thing he was not even that popular before shit hit the fan and had conflicts with Klitschkos for example. But then it did and somehow he managed to navigate it in a way we have all seen. True statesman. A fucking comedian. Uniting and leading with boxers...This timeline...I don't even know, what to say. Meanwhile Europe is stuck with politicians growing more and more disconnected from what majority of population expects of them.

Quick reminder: those "boxers" both hold doctorates and speak multiple languages.

As for politicians, after bashing Baerbock as "not fit for office" during the election campaign, Germany's public opinion changed into "perhaps we voted for the wrong chancellor" meanwhile. While Scholz mostly stays silent except his "Zeitenwende" speech, both Green Party ministers, Baerbock and Habeck, do a pretty good job. Baerbock on the international stage and Habeck in Germany. They both find the right words and don't shy away from stating some inconvenient truths.

[Alistair]

I'd be more than happy to trade the vast bulk of Republicans and Democrats in current or recent leadership for Zelinsky and the Boxers.

[Malcanis]

I'd be more than happy to trade the vast bulk of Republicans and Democrats in current or recent leadership for Zelinsky and the Boxers.

I think a lot of people would

[Joe Appleby]

I followed their boxing career a bit back in the day. They were very obviously not going to rest on their laurels after finishing their boxing careers. Their academic careers ran parallel to their boxing careers and were impressive back then already.

Infoundnit weird that people underestimated them.

[Nordstern]

Infoundnit weird

Go home, autocorrect, you're drunk.

[evil edna]

Fucking boring boxers though

[teds :D]

rename the thread again Spaztick and you're banned.