The russians said it was lost in high waves in a storm while being tugged back. Those waves are not much to be worried about unless ofcourse your entire ship is filled with water already.Originally Posted by helgur
What about the storm?Horribel Storm ��Moskva in the Black Sea, on fire and listing. Photo supposedly taken by a Turkish ship rescuing survivors.
Guess they talked about a shitstorm in the kremel
When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.
It was stormy the night it got hit though. That picture was taken almost a day after the ship was assploded by the Ukrainians. One of the reason the Moskva didn't detect the missiles was because their main radar was diverted towards aerial threats, and the secondary much shorter, and weaker radars onboard the ship didn't pick the neptunes up because of the wakes in the uncalm sea.
It honestly doesn't matter what sunk her. We will not learn the truth for a while if ever. What matters is that she is no longer available for fire support, cruise missile strikes and air defense, severely crippling Russia's capabilities in the Black Sea. Her sister ships are in the Med and can't go through the Dardanelles. Odessa is safe and it's defenses and defenders cna be used elsewhere.
nevar forget
The 50 year newer frigates in the black sea are more capable, in all ways. What the Moscow provided was the headquaters and space. The Moscow didn't carry any land attack cruise missiles, they were shot from the frigates. A major loss but unfortunately not a crippling one.
No, they are not. The Moskva was a very capable anti air platform. The black fleet has been stripped of a platform that provided a lot of its anti air capacity to the point they have a lot less freedom to operate now. 8x8 S-300 launchers and 2x20 OSA + ciws and accompanied sensors. This is a huge operational handicap
Also I wonder what happened to the Ukraina (Ukrainian Slava class cruiser). It was docked in Mykolayiv when the war broke out afaik
My brother (former submariner) gleefully pointed out that surface ships are useless in "hot" combat areas. Tripwire targets relegated to escort vessels was the only real use these days according to him.
He was half joking but they are some smug bastards those submariners.
Seems russia changed propaganda to serve mild doses of copium.
Moskva was their most capable Anti-Air, Anti-Missile defence for the Black Sea fleet.
With its loss, and if UKR could get some more Anti-Ship missiles, they could in effect open up port of Odessa.
Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???
I think they scuttled it.
Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???
No need to scuttle that one, as it has never been finished and needs about 10 years of work to be a real ship. They scuttled a frigate they had.I think they scuttled it.
40 year old CIWS, as it wasn't modernized, and 30 year old SAM capability that has been shown to be really ineffective. The only test of the OSA that is really available is a test of anti-ship missile interception against a missile from the same period of time than OSA, where the missile with dummy warhead rammed the ship after intercept failure and resulted in casualties. Yes, on paper the Moscow was a good AD asset, but reality was probably far off from that.No, they are not. The Moskva was a very capable anti air platform. The black fleet has been stripped of a platform that provided a lot of its anti air capacity to the point they have a lot less freedom to operate now. 8x8 S-300 launchers and 2x20 OSA + ciws and accompanied sensors. This is a huge operational handicap
The frigates carry better CIWS and better medium and short range AD assets, they only lack the claimed range of the S-300, which so far in the war hasn't had any visible impact.
Well there probably was an ammo explosion and fire, very soon after the antiship missile hit a magazine. It's like saying soldiers are dying from rapid bleeding, which is the cause of death even if being shot instigated the bleeding.
Russians are going to start nationalizing civilian Mi-2 Helos. We talk about a museum piece. What's next, IS-3's and Sturmoviks?
What a bizarre army. BMP-1, T-72A, ZSU-23-4 Shilka, Grad-1, Mi-2 serving alongside T-90M, BMP-3, Pantsir and Ka-52.
No wonder their logistic sucks, can you imagine trying to source parts and ammo for so many different systems?
It seems the Russians are not content to let the DPR and LPR have their own flags and leadership, and are replacing both, leading to some...disagreements.
Also:
Lethal darts were fired into a Ukrainian neighborhood by the thousands: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...kraine-russia/
BUCHA, Ukraine — At Svitlana Chmut’s house outside Kyiv, there are carrots in her garden and deadly Russian mini-arrows in her yard.
A pile of the sharp, finned projectiles rounded up by Chmut are now gathering rust in the spring’s fine mist. She combed her walled courtyard for them, she said, after a Russian artillery shell carrying them burst somewhere overhead days before the Russians withdrew late last month, seeding the area with thousands of potentially lethal darts. Some were embedded in the tarp that covered her vehicle, as if someone nailed them to her car.
“If you look closely on the ground around my house, you will find a lot more of them,” said Chmut, 54.
These projectiles, called fléchettes, are rarely seen or used in modern conflict, experts have said. Many landed in the street in the strike, Chmut said, including some observed by Washington Post reporters, among fields of gear and the occasional liquor bottle or chocolate bar abandoned by retreating Russian soldiers.
......
Enemy troops swarmed Chmut’s neighborhood, raiding the homes for food, electronics and liquor, she said, and a sniper perched on a construction crane killed several civilians trying to flee out of town.
Her husband Valerii flipped through videos shared by their neighbors of dead bodies strewn in a nearby road. Russian forces also took on a gradually obsessive mission to shoot down a Ukrainian flag planted on another crane but failed to do so for weeks, Chmut said.
Through it all, Chmut stayed focused on her gardening after her shop was looted, turning to her potatoes, beets and radishes.
She is less interested in the fléchettes. The Russian soldiers left a forest’s worth of wood in the form of ammunition crates, and they will come in handy to feed a fire during the next harsh winter. And the metal from discarded artillery shells she collected, Chmut said, will soon make a lovely fence.
Last edited by Nordstern; April 19 2022 at 03:18:39 AM.
"Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
Johns Hopkins CSSE COVID-19 Dashboard (updated link)
Russian offensive in the East seems to be starting. Only around 50,000 troops so making progress won't be easy. Probably means no grand encirclement plans either.
Dont underestimate its (perceived, anyway) anti-air and anti-missile function though, without it their ships will feel uncomfortable leaving the safety of Sevastapol. Regardless, morale is what will decide this war and in that regard its a stunning blow.
The three more modern frigates of the black sea fleet have the same amount of Gecko missiles per boat as the Moscow had, and 24 modernized buk missiles each (down from 64 old S-300 missiles on moscow), on paper the smaller and more modern buks have the same engagement profile apart from slightly smaller range. And the frigates have much newer radars and ECM systems. The frigates also carry way more capable CIWS systems that didn't fail on their demonstration exercises.Dont underestimate its (perceived, anyway) anti-air and anti-missile function though, without it their ships will feel uncomfortable leaving the safety of Sevastapol. Regardless, morale is what will decide this war and in that regard its a stunning blow.
So still, the Moscow was a big loss but unfortunately not a crippling one or a loss that took away any major capability. Most of her radars are in the stowed positions on the pictures after the impact of the missiles.
The potential greatest impact of the loss would be the personnel on board and the hit on the troop morale.
They are also attacking on a 500km wide front with only 50-60k troops into well entrenched territory.
Even attacking on a 100km wide front would be optimistic. Which early casualty reports is already reporting.
In other glorious news, UKR personell has been trained in using the Stormer/Starstreak platform in the UK.
And are now receiving them just in time for the Russian advance.
(Which is the most Russian way, was set to start on a set date/time. Regardless of weather conditions, so not much air support of their first day.)
Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???
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