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Thread: Ukraine: 3.6 roetgens/hour edition

  1. #4681

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    Doesn't seem likely now does it? I guess the Ukraines success in dealing with his irregulars is forcing him to commit or lose face with the russian populace.

    Shame, I really liked not having to spend 2% of my bnp on defense spending.

  2. #4682

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Doesn't seem likely now does it? I guess the Ukraines success in dealing with his irregulars is forcing him to commit or lose face with the russian populace.

    Shame, I really liked not having to spend 2% of my bnp on defense spending.
    The problem is that if Putin commits regular forces and then suffers a setback (Russian conscripts are no better than irregulars, likely even worse), then he will lose even more standing with the populace.

  3. #4683
    Liare's Avatar
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    not that invading is going to get him anything but a mire that will suck in troops and equipment for years, the population of Ukraine will ensure that by waging guerilla warfare, and we will give them everything we can possibly dust up in the armouries that we no longer need because it's in the west's strategic interest to do so.

    of course, that could be solved by killing off the population, or simply pretending said problems doesn't exist, but neither of those are going to be long-term viable.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  4. #4684

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    not that invading is going to get him anything but a mire that will suck in troops and equipment for years, the population of Ukraine will ensure that by waging guerilla warfare, and we will give them everything we can possibly dust up in the armouries that we no longer need because it's in the west's strategic interest to do so.

    of course, that could be solved by killing off the population, or simply pretending said problems doesn't exist, but neither of those are going to be long-term viable.
    Sure...not like the Russians have any experience with controlling the Ukraine. They held it for 350 years, I think they can handle it. Expect annexation of the East within the year.

  5. #4685
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    not that invading is going to get him anything but a mire that will suck in troops and equipment for years, the population of Ukraine will ensure that by waging guerilla warfare, and we will give them everything we can possibly dust up in the armouries that we no longer need because it's in the west's strategic interest to do so.

    of course, that could be solved by killing off the population, or simply pretending said problems doesn't exist, but neither of those are going to be long-term viable.
    Sure...not like the Russians have any experience with controlling the Ukraine. They held it for 350 years, I think they can handle it. Expect annexation of the East within the year.
    oh i am sure they will succeed in taking it, it's the keeping it in the long term while the neighbours funnel arms and money to anybody willing to kill Russian soldiers i doubt will happen, moreover, the history of that place is one bloody revolt followed by another, with the occasional civil war to keep things interesting.

    the whole place is another lovely slavic clusterfuck though, not as bad as the balkans but it's pretty far out there.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  6. #4686
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  7. #4687

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    not that invading is going to get him anything but a mire that will suck in troops and equipment for years, the population of Ukraine will ensure that by waging guerilla warfare, and we will give them everything we can possibly dust up in the armouries that we no longer need because it's in the west's strategic interest to do so.

    of course, that could be solved by killing off the population, or simply pretending said problems doesn't exist, but neither of those are going to be long-term viable.
    Sure...not like the Russians have any experience with controlling the Ukraine. They held it for 350 years, I think they can handle it. Expect annexation of the East within the year.
    Russians "controlled" Ukraine by propagating the myth that "Russians and Ukrainians are brotherly nations" and still lost it. What makes you think that they can control it now, when all Ukrainians (plus EU and US) will hate Russian guts with a passion?

    Putin needs to choose between taking a moderate loss now, or face a massive long-term loss over the next decade.

  8. #4688
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    Ukraine, unlike the other former republics/satellites shared a sort of a unique status with Russia, since Russia as a unified (well sort of vOv) state began its existence in Ukraine, with its capital in Kiev. So in this case the brotherly nations narrative held some water, it was historically sound.
    It won't now, but I'll bet that if the Easterrn part will be invaded and annexed, the LOCAL population won't do shit about it, simply won't care if some sort of a status quo in life quality is maintained. Doesn't mean that the western blokes won't drive there to "party". I mean - are there riots/partisan warfare in Crimea at the moment?

  9. #4689
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Ukraine, unlike the other former republics/satellites shared a sort of a unique status with Russia, since Russia as a unified (well sort of vOv) state began its existence in Ukraine, with its capital in Kiev. So in this case the brotherly nations narrative held some water, it was historically sound.
    It won't now, but I'll bet that if the Easterrn part will be invaded and annexed, the LOCAL population won't do shit about it, simply won't care if some sort of a status quo in life quality is maintained. Doesn't mean that the western blokes won't drive there to "party". I mean - are there riots/partisan warfare in Crimea at the moment?
    This tbh.

    Hell, lots of eastern ukraine is basically being held right now by a handful of goons. It was never integrated with the rest of the country very well (or this situation wouldn't have happened) and if Russia did decide to walk in, I'm sure it would be theirs.

    Then again since the start of this I expected them to walk in, and they didn't. So by fanning these flames all they've done is got a worse international reputation, killed a bunch of people and wrecked a bunch of stuff. Somehow even if it ends tomorrow people will think Putin is some sort of genius for arranging this. I think it looks more and more like lack of control.

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  10. #4690
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    Seps have learned from the hamas in gaza... launching missiles from residential districts to use the population as human shields.
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  11. #4691
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    It was pretty much integrated with the rest of the country. Or rather, the rest of the country was integrated with it. The Donbass region received more state subsidies for their decaying infrastructure than any other region in Ukraine. Except for the lol period when Yulia Timocorruptbitch ran the place, the party in power has always been eastern. The richest oligarchs were all from the east (Rinat Akhmetov and co). The people in the east were upset that the uppity peasants from the west dared to revolt against the corrupt fuckers from the east, and, with typical Russian elitism, looked down upon the west as being illiterate peasants. They initially supported the wankers from Russia and their own local hooligans, and now they're reaping the benefits of being dumbass arrogant fucks.

    Whatever happens in Ukraine, even if the Russians invade and annex it, I seriously doubt the west will ever let the east rule them again like they did.
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  12. #4692
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Ukraine, unlike the other former republics/satellites shared a sort of a unique status with Russia, since Russia as a unified (well sort of vOv) state began its existence in Ukraine, with its capital in Kiev. So in this case the brotherly nations narrative held some water, it was historically sound.
    It won't now, but I'll bet that if the Easterrn part will be invaded and annexed, the LOCAL population won't do shit about it, simply won't care if some sort of a status quo in life quality is maintained. Doesn't mean that the western blokes won't drive there to "party". I mean - are there riots/partisan warfare in Crimea at the moment?
    Kievan Rus and Russia have nothing in common, except for both being slav nations.

  13. #4693

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Ukraine, unlike the other former republics/satellites shared a sort of a unique status with Russia, since Russia as a unified (well sort of vOv) state began its existence in Ukraine, with its capital in Kiev. So in this case the brotherly nations narrative held some water, it was historically sound.
    It won't now, but I'll bet that if the Easterrn part will be invaded and annexed, the LOCAL population won't do shit about it, simply won't care if some sort of a status quo in life quality is maintained. Doesn't mean that the western blokes won't drive there to "party". I mean - are there riots/partisan warfare in Crimea at the moment?
    Kievan Rus and Russia have nothing in common, except for both being slav nations.
    Not exactly correct. After the invasion by Golden Horde, Kievan Rus transformed into Galytsko-Volynske Kingdom (modern Western Ukraine), while some princes split up and formed Vladimir-Suzdal Kingdom (modern Russia). The former allied himself with Western kingdoms against the Horde, while the latter aligned with Horde against the West.

    The whole thing was GoT-style mess, because after death of a king, the power transferred not to the eldest son, but laterally, to the eldest brother, which triggered massive succession struggles.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rota_system
    Last edited by Don Rumata; July 29 2014 at 11:55:14 PM.

  14. #4694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Doesn't seem likely now does it? I guess the Ukraines success in dealing with his irregulars is forcing him to commit or lose face with the russian populace.

    Shame, I really liked not having to spend 2% of my bnp on defense spending.
    I'm doing my best. Well. Not really.

  15. #4695
    Donor AmaNutin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Doesn't seem likely now does it? I guess the Ukraines success in dealing with his irregulars is forcing him to commit or lose face with the russian populace.

    Shame, I really liked not having to spend 2% of my bnp on defense spending.
    I'm doing my best. Well. Not really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    I find it incredible that a whole country can actually be more retarded than FHC.

  16. #4696

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    Top UK Ambassador: "Putin is a thug and a liar'.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ish-envoy.html

    Plus, UK is deploying King's Royal Hussars to Poland:

    Gen Philip Breedlove, Nato’s top commander in Europe, said last week he wanted to transform a military base in Eastern Europe into a staging post stocked with weapons, ammunition and ration packs in case Nato troops had to rush to the area in the event of a crisis.

  17. #4697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Top UK Ambassador: "Putin is a thug and a liar'.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ish-envoy.html

    Plus, UK is deploying King's Royal Hussars to Poland:

    Gen Philip Breedlove, Nato’s top commander in Europe, said last week he wanted to transform a military base in Eastern Europe into a staging post stocked with weapons, ammunition and ration packs in case Nato troops had to rush to the area in the event of a crisis.
    They will need to hurry then. Pretty sure putin is expecting to hurt if he proper invades, but it'll be less hurt if he does it soon and gets it over with fast. The more he waits the longer he gives the west to get organised.

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  18. #4698
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    It was pretty much integrated with the rest of the country.
    If you call that integrated, we have different understandings of the meaning of the term. The presence of some politicians and wealthy oligarchs does not constitute integrating a region in my book.

    People there ran screaming for the hills because they thought their countrymen had spontaneously turned into Nazis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
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  19. #4699
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    pls stop niggering up my thred its givin me a headach

  20. #4700
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Can someone explain me why the "hard hitting" US and EU sanctions have THIS effect on the market in moscow? Did i miss something?
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

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