hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Is Ethno-Linguistic Self-Determination Actually Practical?

  1. #1
    ValorousBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
    Posts
    4,441

    Is Ethno-Linguistic Self-Determination Actually Practical?

    So I recently saw this map on r/mapporn (here's the OP on reddit). It's an in-progress map of all ethno-linguistic groups and it demonstrates how fractured our world could really be. My first reaction to this is that giving each small group their own nation state would result in a world with thousands of tiny states with very little ability to actually get things done on a global scale. A worldwide economy would become incredibly difficult to sustain, and areas with lots of small groups (like Africa and Asia) would just get fucked even harder by countries like the United States and various European countries. The native American nations are realistically not going to return. Small nations are just going to have even less collective bargaining power and will be even more easily abused by superpowers and international corporations. Won't ethno-linguistic self determination just further increase the West's ability to abuse the rest of the world?

    This also makes me really want to play EUIV.


    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    9,263
    Quote Originally Posted by ValorousBob View Post
    What do you guys think?
    I think that many Bothans smaller neighboring ethno-linguistic groups died to bring us this information establish any given ethnic group.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  3. #3
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    The Motherland
    Posts
    29,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ValorousBob View Post
    What do you guys think?
    I think that many Bothans smaller neighboring ethno-linguistic groups died to bring us this information establish any given ethnic group.
    And i think some have been blown up.

  4. #4
    Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    3,111
    Quote Originally Posted by ValorousBob View Post
    So I recently saw this map on r/mapporn (here's the OP on reddit). It's an in-progress map of all ethno-linguistic groups and it demonstrates how fractured our world could really be. My first reaction to this is that giving each small group their own nation state would result in a world with thousands of tiny states with very little ability to actually get things done on a global scale. A worldwide economy would become incredibly difficult to sustain, and areas with lots of small groups (like Africa and Asia) would just get fucked even harder by countries like the United States and various European countries. The native American nations are realistically not going to return. Small nations are just going to have even less collective bargaining power and will be even more easily abused by superpowers and international corporations. Won't ethno-linguistic self determination just further increase the West's ability to abuse the rest of the world?

    This also makes me really want to play EUIV.


    What do you guys think?
    Map is broken and misleading. WRT Ethnolinguistic groups that's pretty much the only way nations have been made in the past, and I see little reason that will change going forward.

    Looking at that map I have to call BS on all the broken up bits of the US from personal experience alone. having ANY difference at all is not grounds for making a new nation. It requires a difference of a certain magnitude.

    More likely, US/Canada/UK could easily be a single country if not for historic tradition. US/Mexico almost certainly could not.

    The idea that Ohioans wouldn't get along with people from Vermont or Pennsylvania is ridiculous though.

  5. #5
    Donor Aea's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    14,392
    That map needs to be interactive, nearly impossible to read.

    Additionally it divides the US (as mentioned by Synapse) into many irrelevant groups whole "ethnolinguistic" identity comprises a very very minor part of the population.

    Ignoring the whole ethnolinguistic thing however, I feel the US (and possibly other large countries) would be better off as looser confederation of states.

  6. #6
    ValorousBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
    Posts
    4,441
    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Looking at that map I have to call BS on all the broken up bits of the US from personal experience alone. having ANY difference at all is not grounds for making a new nation. It requires a difference of a certain magnitude.

    More likely, US/Canada/UK could easily be a single country if not for historic tradition. US/Mexico almost certainly could not.
    Those are Native American tribes. And yeah I agree, I don't think any western nation would really break apart like this. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough in my OP, but I think the fact that the West will NOT be drawn along all these small ethnic lines is part of the reason why the third world would get fucked by ethno-linguistic self determination. Nigeria is already getting screwed by Shell, splitting the country up even further will just make it easier for the oil companies.

    Yeah I agree that map has some serious issues (it is a WIP after all), but I think it demonstrates the point I'm trying to make well enough. Would it really help India to splinter into a hundred different ethnic fiefdoms? I highly doubt it.


    EDIT: The guy has a Imgur page with some more info.
    Last edited by ValorousBob; April 21 2014 at 06:59:10 PM.

  7. #7
    Donor TheManFromDelmonte's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    5,021
    India has a federal structure in part due to the difference in culture and language in different places.

    But, yes, the trap of a nation being more stable with a single homogenous language and culture is easy to fall into. It doesn't take much thinking to find a lot of places that could be more stable like the UK, Switzerland (!), USA with the spanish speaking population, Belgium (ok maybe a bit), Canada, and many more. While it's an attractive idea on first thought it's clearly nonsense, It doesn't hold up to reality at all.

    So the question for me is why do I (and others) think it's a good idea at all? Are we really just inherently racist monkeys?

  8. #8
    SAI Peregrinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 13, 2011
    Posts
    1,703
    I think people tend to overestimate the racism of others, and the extent to which racism causes problems. Separating ethnic groups doesn't fix things because the problems aren't all (or even mostly) due to racism, and the people with the problems aren't as racist as you think.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 7, 2012
    Posts
    21,157
    Quote Originally Posted by ValorousBob View Post
    So I recently saw this map on r/mapporn (here's the OP on reddit). It's an in-progress map of all ethno-linguistic groups and it demonstrates how fractured our world could really be. My first reaction to this is that giving each small group their own nation state would result in a world with thousands of tiny states with very little ability to actually get things done on a global scale. A worldwide economy would become incredibly difficult to sustain, and areas with lots of small groups (like Africa and Asia) would just get fucked even harder by countries like the United States and various European countries. The native American nations are realistically not going to return. Small nations are just going to have even less collective bargaining power and will be even more easily abused by superpowers and international corporations. Won't ethno-linguistic self determination just further increase the West's ability to abuse the rest of the world?

    This also makes me really want to play EUIV.


    What do you guys think?
    It really is nice.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •