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Thread: Sec Status and Lowsec

  1. #1
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Sec Status and Lowsec

    Why do players get punished for PvPing in a designated PvP area? I mean, I can't see any other point to lowsec, other than a home for FW. At the end of the day, the entire point for lowsec is to fight, yet any engagement that isn't bracketed by a war or FW gets a sec hit. Why?

    My suggestion is pretty simple, don't get a sec status hit for shooting a ship in lowsec. Keep the same flag mechanics, same sentry turret mechanics, just don't give a sec status hit for shooting a ship in lowsec. Still take a hit if you shoot a pod.

    So the sec status situation looks like this:
    highsec: sec hit for shooting ships or pods
    lowsec: sec hit for shooting pods
    0.0 and WH: no sec hits

  2. #2
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    Seems reasonable and has sound logic behind it.

    Guess we'll never see it ingame.
    It's 2019. Get a grip.

  3. #3

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    As simple as it gets, I'd back that up.

    Atleast going from -10 to -2 cost like 400 mil nowadays so it could be worst but its no reason not to fix shit.

  4. #4
    Tetsuo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Why do players get punished for PvPing in a designated PvP area? I mean, I can't see any other point to lowsec, other than a home for FW. At the end of the day, the entire point for lowsec is to fight, yet any engagement that isn't bracketed by a war or FW gets a sec hit. Why?
    So that retards can yell "actions have consequences!!!!!!" As though that is a valid justification for this dumbass mechanic.

    Agree it should have been tossed an eternity ago.

    Although I do think doing so will consign lowsec to forever being nothing more than a pvp themepark instead of a viable sector of space to live in and do non pvp activities. Having the penalty seems to imply that there are those who prey on the innocent denizens of this lawless frontier, removing it is just admitting that there is nobody in that region who isn't there for easy pew
    Last edited by Tetsuo; April 21 2014 at 04:11:47 AM.

  5. #5
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Although I do think doing so will consign lowsec to forever being nothing more than a pvp themepark instead of a viable sector of space to live in and do non pvp activities. Having the penalty seems to imply that there are those who prey on the innocent denizens of this lawless frontier, removing it is just admitting that there is nobody in that region who isn't there for easy pew
    And exactly what would lowsec be otherwise? I agree that I like the idea of lowsec being for something other than themepark PvP, but there's clearly no plan by CCP to do anything for lowsec.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Although I do think doing so will consign lowsec to forever being nothing more than a pvp themepark instead of a viable sector of space to live in and do non pvp activities. Having the penalty seems to imply that there are those who prey on the innocent denizens of this lawless frontier, removing it is just admitting that there is nobody in that region who isn't there for easy pew
    And exactly what would lowsec be otherwise? I agree that I like the idea of lowsec being for something other than themepark PvP, but there's clearly no plan by CCP to do anything for lowsec.
    Eh, don't ask me what CCPs vision for lowsec is. I got so tired of the "people warping away from everything they don't have a direct counter to" meta of meaningless PVP that I moved into wormholes and haven't really looked back. I do think their vision is probably more than a region where the only activity is engaging in honore brawls for the sake of it.

    For me personally, I think an ideal lowsec would be the place with PVE activities in which small corps and solo pilots can make ISK to support themselves while having a reasonable chance of having to defend themselves or getting ganked, and then a viable PVP meta would arise around that naturally. FW was like this maybe 8ish months ago before the meta turned into nothing but cloaks and stabs, but I think the idea that pilots could make ISK to comfortably keep them in ships accessible to low SP pilots (ie, T1 cruisers and down) would give rise to a healthy meta. That would be a lowsec in which you had pilots out there for purposes other than just finding other pilots to shoot for no particular reason (cloak/stab farmers excepted because they've fitted their ships in a manner to be exempt from interacting with other players) and it'd be a way healthier meta than what we have today.

    Somewhat off topic, but since you asked.

  7. #7
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Although I do think doing so will consign lowsec to forever being nothing more than a pvp themepark instead of a viable sector of space to live in and do non pvp activities. Having the penalty seems to imply that there are those who prey on the innocent denizens of this lawless frontier, removing it is just admitting that there is nobody in that region who isn't there for easy pew
    And exactly what would lowsec be otherwise? I agree that I like the idea of lowsec being for something other than themepark PvP, but there's clearly no plan by CCP to do anything for lowsec.
    Eh, don't ask me what CCPs vision for lowsec is. I got so tired of the "people warping away from everything they don't have a direct counter to" meta of meaningless PVP that I moved into wormholes and haven't really looked back. I do think their vision is probably more than a region where the only activity is engaging in honore brawls for the sake of it.

    For me personally, I think an ideal lowsec would be the place with PVE activities in which small corps and solo pilots can make ISK to support themselves while having a reasonable chance of having to defend themselves or getting ganked, and then a viable PVP meta would arise around that naturally. FW was like this maybe 8ish months ago before the meta turned into nothing but cloaks and stabs, but I think the idea that pilots could make ISK to comfortably keep them in ships accessible to low SP pilots (ie, T1 cruisers and down) would give rise to a healthy meta. That would be a lowsec in which you had pilots out there for purposes other than just finding other pilots to shoot for no particular reason (cloak/stab farmers excepted because they've fitted their ships in a manner to be exempt from interacting with other players) and it'd be a way healthier meta than what we have today.

    Somewhat off topic, but since you asked.
    Eh, don't ask me what CCPs vision for wspace is. I got so tired of the "people rolling their hole away from any group they don't outnumber in armor t3s" meta of meaningless PVP that I moved into being an extreme bittervet and haven't really looked back. I do think their vision is probably more than an area where the only activity is engaging in honore brawls for the sake of it.

    For me personally, I think an ideal wspace would be the place with PVE activities in which small corps and solo pilots can make ISK to support themselves while having a reasonable chance of having to defend themselves or getting ganked, and then a viable PVP meta would arise around that naturally. Nullsec was like this maybe 2 or so years ago before (titans got nerfed and) the meta turned into nothing but blobs of pubbies, but I think the idea that pilots could choose to shell out massive piles of isk and SP to fight said blobs (ie, old school tracking titans and pre-nerf supercarriers, but no DD and JB) would give rise to a healthy meta. That would be a nullsec in which you had pilots out there actually in space for purposes other than just forming a 2k man megablob with zero chance of a good fight for anyone involved (just look at what happens atm with CFC/Tri/BL and that whole area right now) and it'd be a way healthier meta than what we have today.

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  9. #9
    root's Avatar
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    The sec status hit gives some plats still a protection. I don't attack a random T1 frig, because I don't want to loose any sec status for it right now. So they are kinda protected.
    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  10. #10
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    For people living in others parts of space do you personally fly to Jita with your PVP main and bring your ships back to wherever you live? I know I don't so what does the sec hit matter. If you have made the decision to live in lowsec you know your sec status is forfeit.

  11. #11
    Agrippa Arkaral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death ToU View Post
    For people living in others parts of space do you personally fly to Jita with your PVP main and bring your ships back to wherever you live? I know I don't so what does the sec hit matter. If you have made the decision to live in lowsec you know your sec status is forfeit.
    In wormholes you usually put your clone in Amarr. When you die, you immediately buy the ship you've lost and get back in.

  12. #12
    root's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death ToU View Post
    For people living in others parts of space do you personally fly to Jita with your PVP main and bring your ships back to wherever you live? I know I don't so what does the sec hit matter. If you have made the decision to live in lowsec you know your sec status is forfeit.
    When I travel through low it's nice that not every T1 frig can tackle my Machariel at the gate.

    Also somehow people think you are less bad when you are flashy and don't want to engage you.
    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  13. #13
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    I always kept spares in home and flew my pod back in, then reship or people doing loot runs would normally pick up new ships people want. Horses for courses I guess.

    Keep a stash of tags in Amarr/.. and don't Pod in lowsec.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by root View Post
    The sec status hit gives some plats still a protection. I don't attack a random T1 frig, because I don't want to loose any sec status for it right now. So they are kinda protected.
    So don't do it until you read huxley too...

  15. #15
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by root View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Death ToU View Post
    For people living in others parts of space do you personally fly to Jita with your PVP main and bring your ships back to wherever you live? I know I don't so what does the sec hit matter. If you have made the decision to live in lowsec you know your sec status is forfeit.
    When I travel through low it's nice that not every T1 frig can tackle my Machariel at the gate.

    Also somehow people think you are less bad when you are flashy and don't want to engage you.
    Gate guns don't change. You still get shot at by them. Sec Status is the only thing I'm suggesting doesn't change.

  16. #16
    John Selth's Avatar
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    I think the sec hit can remain the same for the time being. However I would like to see some kind bubble or something to prevent large fleets form simply disengaging and warping away. Maybe specific bubbles can be put up X kms off of a gate and or station. Would also make it easier to trap supers in lowsec. This is just my thinking have your way with it however you please.


    Concord is like the U.N. / They don't do anything until it's too late

  17. #17
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    TBH, change sec status effects. Right now it's a pretty crap mechanic. Enter 'forbidden' space and get blapped by invincible NPCs. It would be much better if it created new options for player to player interaction. I'm thinking something like a combination of docking restrictions and suspect flagging.

    Historically corps like Thukker Mix were 'shady' NPC corporations, in that they had positive standings with pirate factions. Bring back these shady corps as such, and let them allow outlaws to dock in their stations. Make corps in good standing with the empires deny docking rights. Maybe tack on some extra taxes for outlaws using the markets, handwave it as the cost of criminals doing business. Don't deny/auto-CONCORD outlaws in highsec, rather if you're in highsec that would currently get CONCORD on you, you instead pick up a suspect flag. This still means that -5.0 or worse is flashy everywhere, but a -1.0 or -2.0 character could still wind up flashy in deep highsec.

    The overall thrust of the idea is to concentrate outlaws into 'outlaw haven' stations run by shady corps, while not outright barring them from highsec at any sec status. This opens up new market opportunities, shifts the player distribution subtly by affecting which stations outlaws can call home, and opens up more chances for people to get fights in highsec.

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

  18. #18
    Tetsuo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophichius View Post
    Historically corps like Thukker Mix were 'shady' NPC corporations, in that they had positive standings with pirate factions. Bring back these shady corps as such, and let them allow outlaws to dock in their stations. Make corps in good standing with the empires deny docking rights. Maybe tack on some extra taxes for outlaws using the markets, handwave it as the cost of criminals doing business.
    -O
    This is almost an amazing idea, but if you deny docking rights to positive sec status you're basically turning it into just another low sec since everyone will be flashy, only it will be an even more shit version since it will be completely impossible to do logistics if only flashies can dock.

    However, where it's almost a great idea, is if you made hybrid low/high sec areas like you propose where it's still highsec so gankers will get popped by CONCORD but the difference being that the faction police don't attack you for being criminal. It could turn into a logistics hub for outlaws as they could go into an ostensibly high sec region that would have decent stocked markets, and industrial types would still be willing to bring ships there to stock the markets since they'll still have CONCORD protection.

    This would create an interesting dynamic between an outlaw trade hub and industrials willing to visit a region much more friendly to flashies (ie, less hassle for suicide gankers who are -10) to access what could be a very viable market that caters to PVP pilots.

    Of course, the trouble being that the region needs to have geographical proximity to active lowsec or the whole idea is out the window

  19. #19
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    Any region like that could probably make inactive lowsec regions more desirable.

    I'm of the belief that being below -6 should open up extra gameplay opportunities and not be an entirely negative thing mechanics wise. I have no idea what it could be though

  20. #20
    Ophichius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    This is almost an amazing idea, but if you deny docking rights to positive sec status you're basically turning it into just another low sec since everyone will be flashy, only it will be an even more shit version since it will be completely impossible to do logistics if only flashies can dock.
    Um what? That's not what I wrote at all. Docking in 'shady' stations would be open to everyone. They're supposed to be corps that turn a blind eye to the law. Docking in 'legal' stations would be allowed only if you had a suitably high sec status.

    However, where it's almost a great idea, is if you made hybrid low/high sec areas like you propose where it's still highsec so gankers will get popped by CONCORD but the difference being that the faction police don't attack you for being criminal. It could turn into a logistics hub for outlaws as they could go into an ostensibly high sec region that would have decent stocked markets, and industrial types would still be willing to bring ships there to stock the markets since they'll still have CONCORD protection.

    This would create an interesting dynamic between an outlaw trade hub and industrials willing to visit a region much more friendly to flashies (ie, less hassle for suicide gankers who are -10) to access what could be a very viable market that caters to PVP pilots.

    Of course, the trouble being that the region needs to have geographical proximity to active lowsec or the whole idea is out the window
    There's no point to making it a whole fancy sub-section of sec status. A single unified change is much, much easier to deal with.

    Before: Enter highsec with sufficiently negative sec status, get swarmed by faction police and killed, yet you're able to dock anywhere. After: Enter highsec with sufficiently negative sec status, get suspect flagged, you can only dock at a limited subset of all stations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Any region like that could probably make inactive lowsec regions more desirable.

    I'm of the belief that being below -6 should open up extra gameplay opportunities and not be an entirely negative thing mechanics wise. I have no idea what it could be though
    Only allow missioning for pirate factions below -6? (Probably a bad idea, but hey, first idea to come to mind.) Add probeable pirate stargates that only operate for flashy pilots?

    -O
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
    Failing the Voight-Kampff test, one tortoise at a time.

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