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Thread: Star trek!

  1. #1441

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    "The writing is no worse than the worst of Trek" isn't exactly a glowing endorsement.
    Probably not an endorsement but when i can accept spotty writing even in TNG's later seasons (or most of Voyager, much of DS9 and almost all of Enterprise) then i am at least willing to give the new show a bit more time. There certainly are flaws (the lack of internal logic for example, the old and tired tropes...) but some of the criticisms ( Pattern's "honourable aliens, "the right stuff" professional crew members") aren't much of a problem for me because i don't want to see yet another Startrek show which aheres slavishly to the old and tired formula.
    Having a look at the Federation's less pristine side, especialy during a time of extreme challenges, has it's own appeal. That's why i liked Paradise Lost, The Pegasus and Equinox.
    This time the conflict just seems to last an entire season (or more?) instead of one or two episodes which, if all goes well (hopefully), allows for more than quickly and easily redeemed (or thwarted) cardbord villains.

  2. #1442
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    but some of the criticisms ( Pattern's "honourable aliens, "the right stuff" professional crew members") aren't much of a problem for me because i don't want to see yet another Startrek show which aheres slavishly to the old and tired formula.
    In the context of trek, and perhaps science fiction in general, it's not "old and tired formula" - it's the entire point of the show. We can get extreme challenges and conflict everywhere else in sci fi. That formula is what made trek unique.

    Again, I can still find what I'm watching enjoyable, but it feels like most of the unnecessary bullshit is thrown in for fan services, whilst meat and bones the fans actually want, is kinda left on the fringes... I would have been happier with one or the other, as it stands, It just feels so unbalanced. Even more since the first 2 episodes.

  3. #1443

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    In the context of trek, and perhaps science fiction in general, it's not "old and tired formula" - it's the entire point of the show. We can get extreme challenges and conflict everywhere else in sci fi. That formula is what made trek unique.

    Again, I can still find what I'm watching enjoyable, but it feels like most of the unnecessary bullshit is thrown in for fan services, whilst meat and bones the fans actually want, is kinda left on the fringes... I would have been happier with one or the other, as it stands, It just feels so unbalanced. Even more since the first 2 episodes.
    So wait, is it intentionally avoiding the trek formula and is therefore not trek or is it throwing in unnecessary fan service? It can't be fucking both

  4. #1444
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    In the context of trek, and perhaps science fiction in general, it's not "old and tired formula" - it's the entire point of the show. We can get extreme challenges and conflict everywhere else in sci fi. That formula is what made trek unique.

    Again, I can still find what I'm watching enjoyable, but it feels like most of the unnecessary bullshit is thrown in for fan services, whilst meat and bones the fans actually want, is kinda left on the fringes... I would have been happier with one or the other, as it stands, It just feels so unbalanced. Even more since the first 2 episodes.
    So wait, is it intentionally avoiding the trek formula and is therefore not trek or is it throwing in unnecessary fan service? It can't be fucking both
    You've summed it up perfectly.

  5. #1445

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    but some of the criticisms ( Pattern's "honourable aliens, "the right stuff" professional crew members") aren't much of a problem for me because i don't want to see yet another Startrek show which aheres slavishly to the old and tired formula.
    In the context of trek, and perhaps science fiction in general, it's not "old and tired formula" - it's the entire point of the show. We can get extreme challenges and conflict everywhere else in sci fi. That formula is what made trek unique.
    It might have made Trek unique but it also killed it. Look at Voyager, so much potential lost because the crew, for completely unexplained and stupid reasons, never developed any interesting conflicts. The Maquis guys quickly becamse 08/15 officers while the challenges (moral and otherwise) of being lost 70000 lightyears away from the nearest Federation outpost were all too often ignored in favour of yet more Startrek standard fare.

    I assume that Discovery will find back to the old Startrek values, first signs of moral doubts regarding the Retardigrade were certainly visible in the recent episode.
    It just has an entire season for this to happen instead of two episodes. To stay true to the Federation's values while being threatened by total defeat could even be a semi permanent challenge, one that would make the cast more believable than the average, seemingly perfect by nature, Roddenberry human ideal while still staying true to the Franchise's values. The third season of Enterprise tried something like this and sometimes even succeeded.

    Of course, if this darker side of Starfleet remains solely for the point of trendy grittyness (instead of being part of the aforementioned moral journey) then i will fully agree with you

  6. #1446
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    but some of the criticisms ( Pattern's "honourable aliens, "the right stuff" professional crew members") aren't much of a problem for me because i don't want to see yet another Startrek show which aheres slavishly to the old and tired formula.
    In the context of trek, and perhaps science fiction in general, it's not "old and tired formula" - it's the entire point of the show. We can get extreme challenges and conflict everywhere else in sci fi. That formula is what made trek unique.
    It might have made Trek unique but it also killed it. Look at Voyager, so much potential lost because the crew, for completely unexplained and stupid reasons, never developed any interesting conflicts. The Maquis guys quickly becamse 08/15 officers while the challenges (moral and otherwise) of being lost 70000 lightyears away from the nearest Federation outpost were all too often ignored in favour of yet more Startrek standard fare.

    I assume that Discovery will find back to the old Startrek values, first signs of moral doubts regarding the Retardigrade were certainly visible in the recent episode.
    It just has an entire season for this to happen instead of two episodes. To stay true to the Federation's values while being threatened by total defeat could even be a semi permanent challenge, one that would make the cast more believable than the average, seemingly perfect by nature, Roddenberry human ideal while still staying true to the Franchise's values. The third season of Enterprise tried something like this and sometimes even succeeded.

    Of course, if this darker side of Starfleet remains solely for the point of trendy grittyness (instead of being part of the aforementioned moral journey) then i will fully agree with you
    Huh? Don't most people complain about voyager because Janeway did stray too far away from the trek ideal? Didn't they contrast voyager, with the equinox and showed the other side of the coin? Sure, they didn't drop starfleet principles and resort to boobie trapping corpses and enslaving sentient monsters at the first drop of conflict, but plenty of episodes went into crew development.

    Trek exhaustion was a thing, but since it's been off air, the general landscape of TV these days has changed. Going back to that formula would have actually been refreshing, especially if combined with the longer arc, w/ external conflict and/or internal factions instead of, oh here's an exploding console, and a redshirt being eaten alive. (but we can't even nod and wink because we're far too serious and dark and gritty)

  7. #1447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikar View Post
    I'm enjoying Discovery so far.

    I don't understand why the klingons needed to be completely remolded but eh, that's more mildly perplexing than annoying.
    There's a severe case of rose tinted goggles going on up this thread, though the Discovery ship itself does look like shit.
    it spins


    So far the only issue I have with the show I think, is that the Discovery itself flips over on itself when engaging the DASH drive, it looks retarded.

    Other than that, I'm loving it so far.

  8. #1448
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikar View Post
    I'm enjoying Discovery so far.

    I don't understand why the klingons needed to be completely remolded but eh, that's more mildly perplexing than annoying.
    There's a severe case of rose tinted goggles going on up this thread, though the Discovery ship itself does look like shit.
    it spins


    So far the only issue I have with the show I think, is that the Discovery itself flips over on itself when engaging the DASH drive, it looks retarded.

    Other than that, I'm loving it so far.
    c
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    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.

  9. #1449

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Nobody seems to take issue with sticking needles into an animal to drive a ship and this is supposed to be the federation?
    One of the many theories circling the internet is that ST:Discovery is actually the story of Section 31 (hint: it's the NCC-1031!!one!!), which would give them quite a bit freedom, both with general ST lore and Federation Code of Conduct. And could explain the reactions you mentioned (and the room full of weapons and research done on them).

  10. #1450

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendelfreak View Post
    Makes mores sense than having instant ship travel ten years before TOS.
    The story so far suggests that this engine will terribly fail, as we've seen the "super computer" suffer from the transit. I fully suspect the creature to break free at one of the next travels and killing the captain. Burnham needs to become captain of the Discovery somehow, after all. Which would mean the engine was dumped by the time Kirk travelled the the universe.

  11. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikar View Post
    I'm enjoying Discovery so far.

    I don't understand why the klingons needed to be completely remolded but eh, that's more mildly perplexing than annoying.
    There's a severe case of rose tinted goggles going on up this thread, though the Discovery ship itself does look like shit.
    it spins


    So far the only issue I have with the show I think, is that the Discovery itself flips over on itself when engaging the DASH drive, it looks retarded.

    Other than that, I'm loving it so far.
    c
    Yep. I'm enjoying it. Just sitting back and letting it wash over me.

  12. #1452
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    Just stumbled over this on netflix.

    +1 from me

    A fresh, interesting take on a stale trekkie concept, darker, more "realistic"..

    I especially liked new klingons redesign, they finally look like menacing alien creatures they are - instead of cringy human with mashed cardboard slaped on its forehead..

    I love it, its dark, its brave, its new, and most probably not cannon, so trekkies are gonna hate it..

    But fuck them, this is good stuff

  13. #1453
    Movember '11 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 sarabando's Avatar
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    Last few episodes

    Writers watched a 5 mins buzzfeed video on quantum mechanics and now think they are some sort of Sheldon.

    I'm a bad ass security chick open that force field ohfuckimdead.


    Captain warrior man appears out of nowhere instas 2 BoP then let's the others ram him until his shields drop so he can rule of cool it and.fuck off like space.batman.

    Why not.just.nail the Klingons and then be all "hey sorry we are late the federation still loves you ok bye"

    Urgh it fucking spins.

    At this point I'm watching.it to kill time til season 2 of big mouth comes out

  14. #1454

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    Heh, the oneshot / forevertank depending on the rule of cool was already in episode 2. Cant top the ramming speed in space tho.

    I think its fun that its different, i mean it actively subverts ST conventions at this point. A bit of a compromise between BLOPS and huggy space fed would be cool (like in the first ep).
    Last edited by Lilalaunebör; October 11 2017 at 06:16:30 PM.

  15. #1455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Nobody seems to take issue with sticking needles into an animal to drive a ship and this is supposed to be the federation?
    One of the many theories circling the internet is that STiscovery is actually the story of Section 31 (hint: it's the NCC-1031!!one!!), which would give them quite a bit freedom, both with general ST lore and Federation Code of Conduct. And could explain the reactions you mentioned (and the room full of weapons and research done on them).
    Bryan Fuller (original show runner but has since left) just likes halloween. Oct 31 (1031). Seriously, that's it.

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...18051538096129

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...93735170920449

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...15691264344064

    http://nerdist.com/7-things-we-learn...-at-comic-con/

  16. #1456
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Any chance that this whole thing is set in the mirror universe?

  17. #1457

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendelfreak View Post
    Makes mores sense than having instant ship travel ten years before TOS.
    The story so far suggests that this engine will terribly fail, as we've seen the "super computer" suffer from the transit. I fully suspect the creature to break free at one of the next travels and killing the captain. Burnham needs to become captain of the Discovery somehow, after all. Which would mean the engine was dumped by the time Kirk travelled the the universe.
    Easiest way out is to just burn/kill/infect all the pathways "somehow" and the spore engine would be useless. They could even have the Klingons do it to ensure the coming peace isn't too one sided.

  18. #1458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Nobody seems to take issue with sticking needles into an animal to drive a ship and this is supposed to be the federation?
    One of the many theories circling the internet is that STiscovery is actually the story of Section 31 (hint: it's the NCC-1031!!one!!), which would give them quite a bit freedom, both with general ST lore and Federation Code of Conduct. And could explain the reactions you mentioned (and the room full of weapons and research done on them).
    Bryan Fuller (original show runner but has since left) just likes halloween. Oct 31 (1031). Seriously, that's it.

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...18051538096129

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...93735170920449

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...15691264344064

    http://nerdist.com/7-things-we-learn...-at-comic-con/

    From that last link.:
    After its near absence in Bad Robot’s ongoing series of Trek films, it’s refreshing to hear that genuine science will play a role in Discovery.
    What? Where?

    “There’s a wonderful sense of what we need as humans,” says Fuller of the show. “We need to be explorers. We need to discover. We need to expand. We need to heal where we are right now. Because we’re in some dangerous territory as a country. I don’t take the responsibility lightly—to continue acknowledging that beacon in the stars for us to aspire to, for us to be better people.”
    Am I watching the right show?

    Ok, unless all we have seen so far is exposition, i have trouble reconciling those words with what i see.

  19. #1459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Jiensai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Nobody seems to take issue with sticking needles into an animal to drive a ship and this is supposed to be the federation?
    One of the many theories circling the internet is that STiscovery is actually the story of Section 31 (hint: it's the NCC-1031!!one!!), which would give them quite a bit freedom, both with general ST lore and Federation Code of Conduct. And could explain the reactions you mentioned (and the room full of weapons and research done on them).
    Bryan Fuller (original show runner but has since left) just likes halloween. Oct 31 (1031). Seriously, that's it.

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...18051538096129

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...93735170920449

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...15691264344064

    http://nerdist.com/7-things-we-learn...-at-comic-con/

    From that last link.:
    After its near absence in Bad Robot’s ongoing series of Trek films, it’s refreshing to hear that genuine science will play a role in Discovery.
    What? Where?

    “There’s a wonderful sense of what we need as humans,” says Fuller of the show. “We need to be explorers. We need to discover. We need to expand. We need to heal where we are right now. Because we’re in some dangerous territory as a country. I don’t take the responsibility lightly—to continue acknowledging that beacon in the stars for us to aspire to, for us to be better people.”
    Am I watching the right show?

    Ok, unless all we have seen so far is exposition, i have trouble reconciling those words with what i see.
    I strongly suspect that what's going on right now is preliminary exposition to something else. I hope so anyway


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  20. #1460
    Movember '11 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 sarabando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Jiensai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Nobody seems to take issue with sticking needles into an animal to drive a ship and this is supposed to be the federation?
    One of the many theories circling the internet is that STiscovery is actually the story of Section 31 (hint: it's the NCC-1031!!one!!), which would give them quite a bit freedom, both with general ST lore and Federation Code of Conduct. And could explain the reactions you mentioned (and the room full of weapons and research done on them).
    Bryan Fuller (original show runner but has since left) just likes halloween. Oct 31 (1031). Seriously, that's it.

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...18051538096129

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...93735170920449

    https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/stat...15691264344064

    http://nerdist.com/7-things-we-learn...-at-comic-con/

    From that last link.:
    After its near absence in Bad Robot’s ongoing series of Trek films, it’s refreshing to hear that genuine science will play a role in Discovery.
    What? Where?

    “There’s a wonderful sense of what we need as humans,” says Fuller of the show. “We need to be explorers. We need to discover. We need to expand. We need to heal where we are right now. Because we’re in some dangerous territory as a country. I don’t take the responsibility lightly—to continue acknowledging that beacon in the stars for us to aspire to, for us to be better people.”
    Am I watching the right show?

    Ok, unless all we have seen so far is exposition, i have trouble reconciling those words with what i see.
    I strongly suspect that what's going on right now is a shitty TV show.
    FYP

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