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Thread: Star trek!

  1. #2821
    equak's Avatar
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    Ep. 4 was trash, the script is bad, characters are forgettable and the editing is a mess. Sad to say it but the scenes where Picard are a focus make me want to turn it off. He was right about it being a lost cause though, maybe it was meta-commentary.

  2. #2822
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Senator who gets his head cut off didn't say "you promised to help us and you didn't and I'm mad at the federation for it" what he actually said was "you specifically helped us and I'm mad that you helped us because Romulan strong, let's sword duel".

    My issue isn't the premise, even though it is fucking stupid. It's that the dialogue is awful and it's doing that bad TVthing where conflict only exists because characters wont explain themselves or anything that's happening properly.

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    What he actually said was that "Romulan ingenuity would have solved the problem if you hadn´t showed up, and then you betrayed/abandoned us" (or along those lines).
    And he goes on to blame Picard for their scattered existence.

  3. #2823
    Phrixus Zephyr's Avatar
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    Ok, so my issue is the premise, because that's fucking stupid.

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  4. #2824
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    Star Trek has obviously always had a lot of direct allegorical episodes and concepts. I mean, look at that man, he's black on the left side of his face! So on the surface sure, the new series have allegories in them too.

    The difference between the old, cheesy, almost innocent allegories and the modern takes on them is the underlying intention, the spirit of the show if you will. There were assholes in Starfleet in the old shows (i.e. nearly every admiral ever) but the fundamental structure of a utopian society that had solved all the ancient problems of racism, sexism, inequality, etc. was always there and the point of the episodes where it was challenged was to reinforce that structure, not tear it down. Even in DS9 when Starfleet was paranoid about being infiltrated by the Founders, we saw them stumble but eventually they realized that they couldn't give in to that fear and become a closed, fearful security state without sacrificing their most important ideals.

    The Starfleet of Picard promised to help an old adversary avoid a terrible natural disaster, so far so good, but when the Twin Towers / Utopia Planitia got blown up they immediately turned into the worst version of themselves, the version that they avoided becoming in DS9. It's reflective of modern America, not the future ideal that Star Trek was always designed to inspire us to become. The intention is not to inspire, but to wallow. The spirit is broken.
    This is worse than I thought, there's no butter in my coffee!

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  5. #2825
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Star Trek has obviously always had a lot of direct allegorical episodes and concepts. I mean, look at that man, he's black on the left side of his face! So on the surface sure, the new series have allegories in them too.

    The difference between the old, cheesy, almost innocent allegories and the modern takes on them is the underlying intention, the spirit of the show if you will. There were assholes in Starfleet in the old shows (i.e. nearly every admiral ever) but the fundamental structure of a utopian society that had solved all the ancient problems of racism, sexism, inequality, etc. was always there and the point of the episodes where it was challenged was to reinforce that structure, not tear it down. Even in DS9 when Starfleet was paranoid about being infiltrated by the Founders, we saw them stumble but eventually they realized that they couldn't give in to that fear and become a closed, fearful security state without sacrificing their most important ideals.

    The Starfleet of Picard promised to help an old adversary avoid a terrible natural disaster, so far so good, but when the Twin Towers / Utopia Planitia got blown up they immediately turned into the worst version of themselves, the version that they avoided becoming in DS9. It's reflective of modern America, not the future ideal that Star Trek was always designed to inspire us to become. The intention is not to inspire, but to wallow. The spirit is broken.
    https://www.npr.org/2020/01/12/79563...t-brexit-world

    But when the Picard producers first approached the actor, Stewart was uninterested in returning to the character who defended a utopian vision when he felt the real world had taken a dystopian turn.

    Stewart says, in a post-President Trump and post-Brexit world, the United States and the United Kingdom, in particular, distanced themselves from what the United Federation of Planets — Star Trek's fictional interstellar union of planets that share democratic goals — represented.

    "The European Union always made me feel, well, we are heading towards our own Federation of Planets somewhere down the line that will come about. And I am angry, disappointed and embarrassed by our decision to leave the Union," the English-born actor said in an interview with Weekend Edition Sunday.

    Much like Picard, Stewart is uninterested in playing a part — fictional or not — if it doesn't mesh with his beliefs.

    It wasn't until the producers described the transformed landscape they envisioned for Picard that Stewart got on board. "The Federation" has swung isolationist, and the new Picard is very different.

    "My interest was intensely sparked," he said.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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  6. #2826
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Q would just make himself look like an old man to mock Picard. it would work
    Yeah, Q can look like whatever he wants, whenever he wants; perks of being effectively omnipotent.
    I don't think he's coming back in this from what I've seen so far. TNG started with Q and ended with Q, and the character never made an appearance in any of the movies.

    Q sort of embodies the spirit of Roddenberry era star trek, now its all grimdark, shooty, conspiracy driven. Still like what I've seen so far of Picard but the tone is completely different from TNG.

  7. #2827

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Ok, so my issue is the premise, because that's fucking stupid.

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    It is, but it is exactly the kind of post-fact blame game that you would expect.

    I dont agree with the "not my Star Trek" argument. It is moving on, thats a good thing. Now, where it is headed seems to be full of cheese and plot holes, but i wont blame them for not remaking TNG. Really the only Trek that was that "utopian future with moral dilemma of the week" were TNG and Voyager.

  8. #2828

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    Star Trek has been toying with the "the utopia is not as clean as you think" angle for some time. It's arguable that the Federation only won the Dominion war because Sisko betrayed everything the Federation stood for and duped the Romulans into the war.

  9. #2829

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    Quote Originally Posted by equak View Post
    Ep. 4 was trash, the script is bad, characters are forgettable and the editing is a mess. Sad to say it but the scenes where Picard are a focus make me want to turn it off. He was right about it being a lost cause though, maybe it was meta-commentary.
    Not sure if anybody noticed it, but this episode was directed by Jonathan Frakes.

  10. #2830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    I dont agree with the "not my Star Trek" argument. It is moving on, thats a good thing. Now, where it is headed seems to be full of cheese and plot holes, but i wont blame them for not remaking TNG. Really the only Trek that was that "utopian future with moral dilemma of the week" were TNG and Voyager.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Star Trek has been toying with the "the utopia is not as clean as you think" angle for some time. It's arguable that the Federation only won the Dominion war because Sisko betrayed everything the Federation stood for and duped the Romulans into the war.
    If it were being done intelligently, or with any care or respect for the decades of stories and lore that had come before it, that would be one thing. Even after several galactic wars (Xindi, Klingons, Romulans, Dominion), the Federation had managed to retain it's idealism; if you want to show that things are really changing now for some reason, go for it. But show us why, don't just copy/paste headlines and quotes from modern events.

    Give us a reason to call this Star Trek and not just Modern Action Scifi Future Show.
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  11. #2831

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    Yeah man where's the tiny skirts and blatantly racist charicature villains?!?!!!

  12. #2832
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    Netflix has spoiled me.

    Waiting on Picard episodes to drop (and Mandelorian Episodes prior this) is now annoying, lol.

    Full Season concurrent release is one of the best inventions of streaming digital media in my book.


  13. #2833
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Yeah man where's the tiny skirts and blatantly racist charicature villains?!?!!!
    yeah he was clearly pining for the outdated 60s show and not the overall theme and idea of the franchise you dork

  14. #2834
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    I mean TNG is also a tonal shift from TOS especially after Roddenberry died.

    I'm not old enough to remember this but the beginning of TNG was one of the first Internet debates, over usenet and IRC and some of it is documented. It basically does boil down to "ur ruining my childhood and why are klingons black now"

  15. #2835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    I mean TNG is also a tonal shift from TOS especially after Roddenberry died.

    I'm not old enough to remember this but the beginning of TNG was one of the first Internet debates, over usenet and IRC and some of it is documented. It basically does boil down to "ur ruining my childhood and why are klingons black now"
    Is this the part where we pretend there's other reasons why people like or dislike a product

  16. #2836

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Yeah man where's the tiny skirts and blatantly racist charicature villains?!?!!!
    yeah he was clearly pining for the outdated 60s show and not the overall theme and idea of the franchise you dork
    the overall theme and idea of the franchise... except for the bits of TOS we don't talk about, the bits of TNG we don't like and literally all of VOY, DS9 and ENT.

  17. #2837
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Yeah man where's the tiny skirts and blatantly racist charicature villains?!?!!!
    yeah he was clearly pining for the outdated 60s show and not the overall theme and idea of the franchise you dork
    the overall theme and idea of the franchise... except for the bits of TOS we don't talk about, the bits of TNG we don't like and literally all of VOY, DS9 and ENT.
    ok elmicker

  18. #2838
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Yeah man where's the tiny skirts and blatantly racist charicature villains?!?!!!
    yeah he was clearly pining for the outdated 60s show and not the overall theme and idea of the franchise you dork
    the overall theme and idea of the franchise... except for the bits of TOS we don't talk about, the bits of TNG we don't like and literally all of VOY, DS9 and ENT.
    ok elmicker
    I'll gladly talk about any part of any of any the shows listed here, but I don't think elm even understands what he's arguing anymore, if he ever did.

    In other news, Episode 5 dropped and I think I've finally figured it all out.

    NuTrek wishes it was Mass Effect.
    This is worse than I thought, there's no butter in my coffee!

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  19. #2839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Yeah man where's the tiny skirts and blatantly racist charicature villains?!?!!!
    yeah he was clearly pining for the outdated 60s show and not the overall theme and idea of the franchise you dork
    the overall theme and idea of the franchise... except for the bits of TOS we don't talk about, the bits of TNG we don't like and literally all of VOY, DS9 and ENT.
    ok elmicker
    I'll gladly talk about any part of any of any the shows listed here, but I don't think elm even understands what he's arguing anymore, if he ever did.

    In other news, Episode 5 dropped and I think I've finally figured it all out.

    NuTrek wishes it was Mass Effect.


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  20. #2840
    Movember '11 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 sarabando's Avatar
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    Elm talking shit about DS9

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