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Thread: Star trek!

  1. #1841
    Sacul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    I had a weird thought.....

    What if the Federation is actually a totalitarian dystopian dictatorship that murders its citizens before replacing them with compliant copies???

    We know from the lore that earth went through both a nuclear world war and a eugenics war. As Q showed dictatorships ruled over large parts of the ruined earth. Yet somehow progress continued, with warp drive leading to first contact, colonization of Terra Nova and eventually the Federation.

    But what if it is all a lie?

    The real technological breakthrough was the Transporter. Designed as a method of near-instantaneous transit between two unconnected locations, it real use was as a method of mass-murder and the creation of compliant copies.

    Think about how the Transporter works. You stand on a pad and a beam of high energy particles disintegrates your body down to its constituent particles so that all the data is read and then transmitted to a different pad where particles are assembled to put you back together you. Except it doesn't. You die as you body is vapourised. In its place a copy of you is made, with everything copied right down to every neuron pathway, so even if it isn't you it may as well be you, right?

    You can even be "beamed up" from anywhere to anywhere if a Transporter can get a lock on you.

    Well, given that all your memories and personalities are being stored on a computer, and given how advanced Star Trek technology is in the field of neural medicine, what is to stop the computer stripping out unwanted thoughts and memories before creating a copy of a more compliant you.

    All you need to do is make it legal for the copy to become you after your death.

    So the Federation, rather than being the happy proto-socialistic xeno-friendly government is actually a brutal dictatorship that conquers worlds, and then executes its inhabitants by putting them through Transporters, creating reprogrammed copies who only remember what they are allowed to remember. Important personnel like starship crews go through the Transporter a lot, allowing for a constant cycle of execution and the purging of any memories that might lead to questions or rebellion in the copies.

    So "beam me up" or "energize" might be the most terrifying final words anyone hears in the Star Trek universe.
    I cant remember when and were i read it but there is whole psychology behind ST community whom allready have gone down this rabbit hole. You have had a original thougth or read what i have read ~a decade ago.

  2. #1842
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    I can't rule out having read something on this in the past, but it was a documentary on cloning and uploading a human mind into an AI and the argument over whether a copy was you or not, that got me thinking about the Transporter and its particular method of destruction and reconstruction.

  3. #1843
    Sacul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    I can't rule out having read something on this in the past, but it was a documentary on cloning and uploading a human mind into an AI and the argument over whether a copy was you or not, that got me thinking about the Transporter and its particular method of destruction and reconstruction.
    Iirc its also mentioned in Banks Culture books. For what its worth i have had a few discussions about this including philosphy PhD folk aka friends and my opinion is No the transport tech of STwont allow original beings. I agree with you. Somewhere down the line it will be abused.

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  4. #1844
    Donor Verite Rendition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalline Entity View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Prime Discovery crew.

    Troll detected, none of this is prime
    As far as we know, this is all in the Prime universe. I agree that it is getting increasingly hard to rectify Discovery with the Prime universe, but it's all Prime until we're told otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    I can't rule out having read something on this in the past, but it was a documentary on cloning and uploading a human mind into an AI and the argument over whether a copy was you or not, that got me thinking about the Transporter and its particular method of destruction and reconstruction.
    The clone theory is as old as the transporter; possibly even older. It's been the subject of countless short stories and probably a sci-fi anthology series or two. It's all quite interesting and well-worth reading a couple; just remember that for the purposes of the Star Trek universe, it's just a means to get from Point A to Point B.
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  5. #1845
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    I can't rule out having read something on this in the past, but it was a documentary on cloning and uploading a human mind into an AI and the argument over whether a copy was you or not, that got me thinking about the Transporter and its particular method of destruction and reconstruction.
    Iirc its also mentioned in Banks Culture books. For what its worth i have had a few discussions about this including philosphy PhD folk aka friends and my opinion is No the transport tech of STwont allow original beings. I agree with you. Somewhere down the line it will be abused.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn LENNY2 met Tapatalk
    Also given that the data can be stored (as per several Star Trek episodes and Scotty in a movie if memory serves) or trapped in the buffer, what is to stop you making multiple copies of the same individual with that data? Why not have every single Red Shirt on a starship being the same doomed individual, and just transporter-create more as needed???

  6. #1846
    Sacul's Avatar
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    Nothing more than a code of ethics. And that is what the Federation is attempting.

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    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  7. #1847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    I can't rule out having read something on this in the past, but it was a documentary on cloning and uploading a human mind into an AI and the argument over whether a copy was you or not, that got me thinking about the Transporter and its particular method of destruction and reconstruction.
    Quantum teleporting is best described in one of Crichton's books, you can't fit yourself through a conduit but you can send a fax.

    Always loved that description. And the fact that the original always gets destroyed in the process. But it's still the same thing/person.


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  8. #1848
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    Come again?


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    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.

  9. #1849

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    I can't rule out having read something on this in the past, but it was a documentary on cloning and uploading a human mind into an AI and the argument over whether a copy was you or not, that got me thinking about the Transporter and its particular method of destruction and reconstruction.
    Iirc its also mentioned in Banks Culture books. For what its worth i have had a few discussions about this including philosphy PhD folk aka friends and my opinion is No the transport tech of STwont allow original beings. I agree with you. Somewhere down the line it will be abused.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn LENNY2 met Tapatalk
    Also given that the data can be stored (as per several Star Trek episodes and Scotty in a movie if memory serves) or trapped in the buffer, what is to stop you making multiple copies of the same individual with that data? Why not have every single Red Shirt on a starship being the same doomed individual, and just transporter-create more as needed???
    The "Scotty incident" is in TNG's episode "Relics"

  10. #1850
    Donor Grendelfreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabando View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    I had a weird thought.....

    What if the Federation is actually a totalitarian dystopian dictatorship that murders its citizens before replacing them with compliant copies???

    We know from the lore that earth went through both a nuclear world war and a eugenics war. As Q showed dictatorships ruled over large parts of the ruined earth. Yet somehow progress continued, with warp drive leading to first contact, colonization of Terra Nova and eventually the Federation.

    But what if it is all a lie?

    The real technological breakthrough was the Transporter. Designed as a method of near-instantaneous transit between two unconnected locations, it real use was as a method of mass-murder and the creation of compliant copies.

    Think about how the Transporter works. You stand on a pad and a beam of high energy particles disintegrates your body down to its constituent particles so that all the data is read and then transmitted to a different pad where particles are assembled to put you back together you. Except it doesn't. You die as you body is vapourised. In its place a copy of you is made, with everything copied right down to every neuron pathway, so even if it isn't you it may as well be you, right?

    You can even be "beamed up" from anywhere to anywhere if a Transporter can get a lock on you.

    Well, given that all your memories and personalities are being stored on a computer, and given how advanced Star Trek technology is in the field of neural medicine, what is to stop the computer stripping out unwanted thoughts and memories before creating a copy of a more compliant you.

    All you need to do is make it legal for the copy to become you after your death.

    So the Federation, rather than being the happy proto-socialistic xeno-friendly government is actually a brutal dictatorship that conquers worlds, and then executes its inhabitants by putting them through Transporters, creating reprogrammed copies who only remember what they are allowed to remember. Important personnel like starship crews go through the Transporter a lot, allowing for a constant cycle of execution and the purging of any memories that might lead to questions or rebellion in the copies.

    So "beam me up" or "energize" might be the most terrifying final words anyone hears in the Star Trek universe.
    [img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lAaiZFlmfxM/maxresdefault.jpg[/img
    I do like the view that the Fed is less than squeaky clean. In DS9 one of the maquis says to Sisko,
    "I know you. I was like you once. But then I opened my eyes. Open your eyes, Captain. Why is the Federation so obsessed with the Maquis? We've never harmed you. And yet we're constantly arrested and charged with terrorism. Starships chase us through the Badlands, and our supporters are harassed and ridiculed. Why? Because we've left the Federation, and that's the one thing you can't accept. Nobody leaves Paradise, everyone should want to be in the Federation! Hell, you even want the Cardassians to join. You're only sending them replicators because one day, they can take their rightful place on the Federation Council. You know, in some ways, you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious, you assimilate people - and they don't even know it."

    Quark says something similar too on a regular basis often remarking how humans are fine until they are hungry or scared.

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  11. #1851
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    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    Come again?


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    Transporters/quantum teleporting means destroying the original and transmitting the data and recreating the same original at the destination. However, because you destroyed the original, it's not quite the same, is it? Even if the result at the destination is identical from all points of view
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  12. #1852
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    I mean essentially transporters are just replicators with wifi

  13. #1853
    smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    It must be clear to you by now that there is no place in the future for straight white males.

    I doubt we'll see Lorca again.

    Georgiou:
    Genocides a whole planet, eats other sentient beings.
    Harps on about how Michael is the only person she would grant a quick death.
    Kills her senior council in the blink of an eye to protect a secret.
    Attempts to throw Michael in the brig after revealing that she actually brought back mirror Lorca

    Lorca:
    Has Mirror Stamets disintegrated rather than being dramatic about it.
    Returns for his friends and crewmates when he could have carved out a good life in the prime universe.
    Displays a genuine respect for Prime Discovery crew.
    Offers Michael a place at his side.

    Which one is the baddie?
    NOBODY WHO LOOKS LIKE ME IS THE HERO IN THIS SERIES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    Are you assuming my triggered status? I'd be saying exactly the same if Lorca was a lesbian negress and Georgeu an aryan. In most of trek the shades of grey were at least acknowledged.

  14. #1854
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    I mean essentially transporters are just replicators with wifi
    m8 wat?

    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  15. #1855
    Donor Verite Rendition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalline Entity View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    I mean essentially transporters are just replicators with wifi
    m8 wat?

    Wrong replicator, dummy.

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  16. #1856
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    It must be clear to you by now that there is no place in the future for straight white males.

    I doubt we'll see Lorca again.

    Georgiou:
    Genocides a whole planet, eats other sentient beings.
    Harps on about how Michael is the only person she would grant a quick death.
    Kills her senior council in the blink of an eye to protect a secret.
    Attempts to throw Michael in the brig after revealing that she actually brought back mirror Lorca

    Lorca:
    Has Mirror Stamets disintegrated rather than being dramatic about it.
    Returns for his friends and crewmates when he could have carved out a good life in the prime universe.
    Displays a genuine respect for Prime Discovery crew.
    Offers Michael a place at his side.

    Which one is the baddie?
    NOBODY WHO LOOKS LIKE ME IS THE HERO IN THIS SERIES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    Are you assuming my triggered status? I'd be saying exactly the same if Lorca was a lesbian negress and Georgeu an aryan. In most of trek the shades of grey were at least acknowledged.

  17. #1857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    It must be clear to you by now that there is no place in the future for straight white males.
    Hey now, Nazis make the best villains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  18. #1858
    smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    It must be clear to you by now that there is no place in the future for straight white males.
    Hey now, Nazis make the best villains.
    >Nazis
    >Villains

  19. #1859

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    Last edited by Don Rumata; February 3 2018 at 07:58:21 AM.

  20. #1860
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    Holy shit. I like where STD is going.


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