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Thread: Star trek!

  1. #1921
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Don't twist the subject. Fractional differences between the different series is not the overall timeline. No actually, the timeline is important, if you break it then it ruins things and it's also a slippery slope towards ‘anything can change’.

    Indulge me a moment. Imagine, STD accidentally Kills Ensign Kirk and Picard decides to become a grape farmer in France. Now this is all canon in the prime universe. Do the fans like it/hate it, what happens? Is star trek over?

    The question I guess I am asking is, and genuinely keeping it out of the temperament of the politics thread, what could they do in STD that would make people that like the show go ‘nah, that’s ruining star trek’?
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  2. #1922

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    Probably nothing, because the only people who think like that are uber-nerd trekists who have subscribed to the Latter Day Church of The Pure Trek Timeline in the face of the actual reality that the timeline is a lunatic, contradictory, barely-there bit of background dressing made up as the writers went along to serve the purposes of the monster of the day.

  3. #1923
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Now I'm not sure what Max understands less, Marxism or Star Trek.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  4. #1924
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Alright bud, not a lot more I can say really. If STD could make any change they want without a proper fan revolt then it literally becomes another show with the name Star Trek tacked on.

    (I know I am using theorising but it has happened with the spore drive and klingons looking and sounding different)
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  5. #1925
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Now I'm not sure what Max understands less, Marxism or Star Trek.
    Bit low effort I agree, but I don't care enough to put Enterprise before TOS and get the rest in time order.

    Arguing about the Star Trek time-line is like arguing over Marxism, a waste of time.

  6. #1926

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalline Entity View Post
    (I know I am using theorising but it has happened with the spore drive and klingons looking and sounding different)
    So how much of a crime was TNG where a Klingon was suddenly a member of the bridge crew?

  7. #1927
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    It would have been a timeline crime if it had been established in a previous series set in the future that no Klingon had ever served on a star fleet ship....
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  8. #1928

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    So, let's say in about four episodes time they run into Q and he hits a big reset button and all of the events of disco are merged neatly into the near-60 year old events of TOS and the background technobabble of TNG et al. Would you suddenly think it's good Trek?

  9. #1929
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    If it was merged well then yes.

    Q is an in universe character so if he could merge them in a way that made sense to the timeline then sure I would give it a chance and it may become good Trek.
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  10. #1930

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    So, in order of preference, you would prefer something that blindly follows the budget-constrained, poorly written nonsense of the 60s and 90s, followed by something that uses a literal god from the heavens to reset the timeline to being the same as it was before, finally followed by something attempting some original writing in an otherwise utterly stale and dead universe?

    Gotcha.

  11. #1931
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Yes, I wouldn’t be as negative as you but timeline and established universe trumps all.

    Let me ask a final question (as this is getting tedious). If STD was set post Nemesis and had a few minor tweaks with say Michael as granddaughter of Tuvok say, and Klingons looked the same as in TNG/DS9 but otherwise had the same sort of plot and characters, and was essentially the same show as now. Would you mind especially?

    I would assume not?
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  12. #1932

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    I'd wonder why all the ships didn't have Super Duper Quantum Transformer Armour and Pew Pew Pew Torpedos that Voyager brought back from Future Janeway.

    Wouldn't you?

    Or in other words, backstories and established universes just get so fucking stupid and convoluted and strained from the hundreds of primarily budget-constrained productions thrown at it across decades that sometime's it's not just OK to ignore them, it's entirely the right thing to do.

  13. #1933
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Well the armour the Borg adapted to at the end and the torpedos probably went classified but okay... (books said they went classified but they aren't quite canon)

    Bud, there is not a lot we agree on and this appears to be another. All cool, I respect your views. I disagree with them but each to their own.
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  14. #1934
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Or how about DS9 having money while TNG declared the federation a post-scarcity utopia? Answer me that!



  15. #1935

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    I've actually grown to really like Discovery, but I have to admit the whole spore drive thing in pre-Kirk days really pushes my ability to suspend my disbelief. I really wish they had come up with something else.

    As for things like holographic projection, meh, I'm not too bothered. Tech in a show that runs as long as Star Trek has is always going to be an issue.

  16. #1936
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.

  17. #1937
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Yes, the spore drive is frustrating, because it has the potential to be a universe-altering tech.

    But you know what? That's fine, because they've obviously got to find a way to deal with that. It's part of what makes the series interesting.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  18. #1938
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Probably nothing, because the only people who think like that are uber-nerd trekists who have subscribed to the Latter Day Church of The Pure Trek Timeline in the face of the actual reality that the timeline is a lunatic, contradictory, barely-there bit of background dressing made up as the writers went along to serve the purposes of the monster of the day.
    except for DS9, they actually established some solid background continuity

  19. #1939

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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Probably nothing, because the only people who think like that are uber-nerd trekists who have subscribed to the Latter Day Church of The Pure Trek Timeline in the face of the actual reality that the timeline is a lunatic, contradictory, barely-there bit of background dressing made up as the writers went along to serve the purposes of the monster of the day.
    except for DS9, they actually established some solid background continuity
    That's because DS9 ripped off from Babylon 5. JMS pitched the concept to Paramount, they said they're not interested, then basically stole the concept and the plot.

    Paramount and Warner Bros. both agreed that Deepspace 9 would be the show that would launch the new network and there wouldn’t be room for two “space” shows on the network. I was told they purposely took what they liked from the B5 script and put it in the DS9 script. In fact, there was talk of leaving the B5 script in tact and just setting it the Star Trek universe. I had to keep rewriting press release drafts while they were trying to make the final decision.

    https://www.tor.com/2013/02/26/is-th...off-babylon-5/
    Last edited by Don Rumata; February 10 2018 at 02:45:02 AM.

  20. #1940
    DevilDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Probably nothing, because the only people who think like that are uber-nerd trekists who have subscribed to the Latter Day Church of The Pure Trek Timeline in the face of the actual reality that the timeline is a lunatic, contradictory, barely-there bit of background dressing made up as the writers went along to serve the purposes of the monster of the day.
    except for DS9, they actually established some solid background continuity
    That's because DS9 ripped off from Babylon 5. JMS pitched the concept to Paramount, they said they're not interested, then basically stole the concept and the plot.

    Paramount and Warner Bros. both agreed that Deepspace 9 would be the show that would launch the new network and there wouldn’t be room for two “space” shows on the network. I was told they purposely took what they liked from the B5 script and put it in the DS9 script. In fact, there was talk of leaving the B5 script in tact and just setting it the Star Trek universe. I had to keep rewriting press release drafts while they were trying to make the final decision.

    https://www.tor.com/2013/02/26/is-th...off-babylon-5/
    yeah but that doesn't really take away from DS9's accomplishments IMO, the most you can say is the premise and theme were copied it's not like they could copy execution which is one of the places where DS9 really shines. It had the best actors of any trek IMO.

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