[PVP] Stabber Fleet Issue

[Calgus]

Been meaning to try this out in low sec for a long time now but haven't gotten around to it so as of right now its purely theorycrafted fit

[Stabber Fleet Issue, armor herp derp]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
10MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M

Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2

[Maelstrom]

[Stabber Fleet Issue, DualProp]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
10MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2


i think i usually go valks/warriors
you can trade 1 trimark for a burst rig (not enough calibration for a t2 burst rig though)
pretty shit falloff for an AC boat so get in their face
pimp to taste

[Ryuichi]

[Stabber Fleet Issue, SFI DMAR]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Projectile Burst Aerator I

Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x3

[cerui]

I've used the setup Maelstrom posted in the past and it's rock solid imo, even with the plate it aligns faster than some non plated cruisers. However I prefer scram so I can have total range control and investing in a dg web for longer web range.

[Podcat]

[Stabber Fleet Issue, SFI DMAR]

after extensive testing I prefer the tankier version of that, eg:


[Stabber Fleet Issue, HONOR]
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I


Valkyrie II x3
Hobgoblin II x2


Drones are like that instead of spares because you need the dps. Guns can be upgraded to 220s if you muck about with mids, but imo its not worth it because you need the tracking and downgrading AB hurts your important speed.

[Phrynobatrachus]

[Stabber Fleet Issue, vagabond]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5


Needs a 3% CPU implant or you could drop an LSE to meta 4.

[walrus]

The SFI has got so many hitpoints in armor/structure, that i wouldnt fly it without a DCU tbh.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

The SFI has got so many hitpoints in armor/structure, that i wouldnt fly it without a DCU tbh.

Not to mention that a critical factor of the vagabond is the T2 resist profile which gives it so much natural shield EHP.

[Phoku5]

[Stabber Fleet Issue, SFI DMAR]

Guns can be upgraded to 220s if you muck about with mids, but imo its not worth it because you need the tracking and downgrading AB hurts your important speed.

There are other ways to do it without downgrading anything, but yeah, confirming that the 220s tracking significantly dampens your dps flying DMAR close. 180s and valks ftw.

[RoemySchneider]

i don't see it.... that's a +50% tracking bonus after all.
and it sounds like you still miss every now and then, even with d180s?
might as well fit small weapons then - light neutrons w/ void still have ~3.5x the tracking of bonus'ed d180mm (because of signature resolution) -.-

? 1x mag stab, 5x light neutron void s, explo drones = 360dps // +250% tracking compared to bonus'ed d180mm
? 1x gyro, 5x d180mm faction ammo, explo drones = 383dps // bit more cap, selectable dmg type


disclaimer: no, im not entirely serious. but if you're that obsessed with tracking, do go neutron -.- it's only one dmg bonus (projectiles 'require' two) and the tracking doesnt compare :/

[Raz]

i don't see it.... that's a +50% tracking bonus after all.
and it sounds like you still miss every now and then, even with d180s?
might as well fit small weapons then - light neutrons w/ void still have ~3.5x the tracking of bonus'ed d180mm (because of signature resolution) -.-

? 1x mag stab, 5x light neutron void s, explo drones = 360dps // +250% tracking compared to bonus'ed d180mm
? 1x gyro, 5x d180mm faction ammo, explo drones = 383dps // bit more cap, selectable dmg type


disclaimer: no, im not entirely serious. but if you're that obsessed with tracking, do go neutron -.- it's only one dmg bonus (projectiles 'require' two) and the tracking doesnt compare :/

So out of curiosity I threw light neutrons onto the DMAR fit. The most appalling thing is that they use the same amount of CPU o\

But in all seriousness, the point is that given the manner in which the DMAR SFI fights (in your face) you don't really get more damage from 220s in practice than you do out of d180s.

Also, small blasters would make the tank more difficult to manage.

[RoemySchneider]

i don't see it.... that's a +50% tracking bonus after all.
and it sounds like you still miss every now and then, even with d180s?
might as well fit small weapons then - light neutrons w/ void still have ~3.5x the tracking of bonus'ed d180mm (because of signature resolution) -.-

? 1x mag stab, 5x light neutron void s, explo drones = 360dps // +250% tracking compared to bonus'ed d180mm
? 1x gyro, 5x d180mm faction ammo, explo drones = 383dps // bit more cap, selectable dmg type


disclaimer: no, im not entirely serious. but if you're that obsessed with tracking, do go neutron -.- it's only one dmg bonus (projectiles 'require' two) and the tracking doesnt compare :/

So out of curiosity I threw light neutrons onto the DMAR fit. The most appalling thing is that they use the same amount of CPU o\

But in all seriousness, the point is that given the manner in which the DMAR SFI fights (in your face) you don't really get more damage from 220s in practice than you do out of d180s.

Also, small blasters would make the tank more difficult to manage.

hummm now i've made myself curious... to the graph mobile!

i picked 700m/s transversal for all if that's ok...? all have the +109 from explo drones.
red = void s neutrons, 1 mag stab
blue = 220mm, faction ammo, 1 gyro
green = d180mm, faction ammo, 1 gyro

edit: the x axis is supposed to reflect range, not speed. sry, got carried over from a missile graph -.-

vs a cane w/ 2x extenders (290m)


vs a vaga w/ 2x extenders and a shield rig (175m)


vs my solo scimitar of doom™ (65m)


but what's the orbit for that 'brick'? i'm used to my double-nanofibre-scimi and i stay <1000m. but it takes 4.7s to warp (no AB) whereas this SFI asks for 7s. what orbit does that lead to?

quite surprised about the cane example myself

[Phoku5]

Graphs and theory craft

Awesome man, thanks for taking the time to graph it all out. I've played around with 180s vs. 220s dps graphs before but never thought about small neutrons.

In practice there is a certain intangible that makes 220s hit for less than 180s on a DMAR close orbit... probably the same intangible that makes any hard EFT stats inaccurate in RL PvP situations... The bottom line for me is there isn't enough of a DPS difference to warrant spending more isk, needing implants or sacrificing modules to fit 220s over 180s. Small neutrons are cool, but they lack versatility outside of 4k which is a drawback for any ship.

Great theory craft though man, your input is appreciated.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

Hell what I got out of that graph is that there's almost no reason to fit d180s over neutrons

edit: nerf blasters?

[Phoku5]

small neutrons

Hell what I got out of that graph is that there's almost no reason to fit d180s over neutrons

lol check it:

100MN AB + web + s neutrons

Fitting is tigher than a 12 year old.

[Stabber Fleet Issue, DMAR blastAr]
Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2

336/370 deeps @ 1.7+1.6
DMAR tank 349/434
1561/2204 m/s
4.5/27.6 align (lol)

\o/ web. Also cap is better with no MWD penalty.


Agility is fucking atrocious though, I've never flown a 100mn cruiser hull before... does the align decrease with your speed or is it terrible no matter what when AB is on?

If this actually works you could prolly roll a full flight of ECM drones for extra trololo. Something tells me this is too good to be true though.

[Raz]

lol check it:

100MN AB + web + s neutrons



[Stabber Fleet Issue, DMAR blastAr]
Craziness

336/370 deeps @ 1.7+1.6
DMAR tank 349/434
1561/2204 m/s
4.5/27.6 align (lol)

\o/ web. Also cap is better with no MWD penalty.


Agility is fucking atrocious though, I've never flown a 100mn cruiser hull before... does the align decrease with your speed or is it terrible no matter what when AB is on?

If this actually works you could prolly roll a full flight of ECM drones for extra trololo. Something tells me this is too good to be true though.

While the and sheer ridiculousness of this is awesome, practically speaking I can't imagine it'll work out. The DMAR works because with a tight orbit and the AB and the SFI's low sig radius you can get under the guns of most cruisers/BCs and tank whatever is left that they're hitting you with.

The 100mn AB doesn't blow your sig and leaves alot more cap to play with, but the agility is so bad I can't imagine being able to pull a tight enough orbit for the range and tracking of the neutrons to be effective.

Sort of like an elephant trying to fence with a bus.

[Phoku5]

The 100mn AB doesn't blow your sig and leaves alot more cap to play with, but the agility is so bad I can't imagine being able to pull a tight enough orbit for the range and tracking of the neutrons to be effective.

Right, I was asking if setting your speed to say 600 m/s and orbiting with the 100 will have any improvement in the agility over flying at full speed. You could keep it burning and see if keep distance at 500m works also. I know my close range cyclone can't hit cruiser hulls for shit if I sit right at 500 and theres any sort of transversal.

[sassy b]

The agility loss from oversized prop mods isnt dependent on speed. Propmods increase your mass, and the mass increase from an oversized propmod is very very bad for smaller shipclasses which have lower agility modifiers. You will not have much luck maintaining a 500m orbit.

[Podcat]

The agility loss from oversized prop mods isnt dependent on speed. Propmods increase your mass, and the mass increase from an oversized propmod is very very bad for smaller shipclasses which have lower agility modifiers. You will not have much luck maintaining a 500m orbit.

this, 100mn is only useful on ships with weapon range (tengu) or for GTFO. in case of the SFI its its tank, so you need to pull close orbits.

Hell what I got out of that graph is that there's almost no reason to fit d180s over neutrons

edit: nerf blasters?

in case you were seriously thinkign about it, giving up the range is a bad idea, also if you have blasters a frigate can just kite you at 8km. the main reason I dont liek 220s is that I need the implant slots and downgrading to meta AB is a really bad idea because you need ab speed more than a few dps. and also with tracking calcualted in there is no real difference in effective dps, and much worse dps vs frigs.

[Raz]

So I haven't flown the dMAR SFI in awhile, and since then I've been doing a lot more <500m manual orbits in frigates when fighting cruisers and the like without an AB. This morning I was wondering whether the same technique could be applied to the SFI.

[SFI, dMAR w/o AB]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I

3x Valkyrie II
2x Warrior II

The primary motivator behind this idea is making the SFI more viable against dual neut shield Canes. Plus, if the AB isn't actually necessary, it frees up the fitting for something arguably more useful. In this case, the web. But possibly a TD or ECM burst. 220s are also much easier to fit without the AB but in a close manual orbit they don't track at all.

Most dual prop frigates run that way for disengagement and range control. I haven't found that the AB on the SFI affords me the option to disengage in many circumstances, and if it's unnecessary for getting under cruiser-sized guns then it seems like the web or another EWAR option is more useful. Especially for swatting tackle off of you.

I tested this against a friend in a standard shield Cane this morning. Orbiting at 500 while he was moving obviously resulted in a good amount of incoming damage. A close manual did successfully get me under his guns and the d180s were still able to hit (the 220s did not). The manual orbit does require a lot of attention on a ship that already has many buttons to push.

The benefit is that the incoming damage is even less than when orbiting a Cane with an AB at 500. Plus you have more cap stability without the AB and your ability to stay under his guns is much less likely to get turned off.

Most of the viable targets for the SFI: Vagabonds, single prop Cynabals, Rapiers and other Recons, etc, I feel are still just as workable without the AB. And in the case of dual prop Cynabals, perhaps more so (but probably not) since they're faster with an AB than the SFI.

Just an early morning theorycraft, sorry if it's a bit rambly. Curious to get opinions from other people with experience flying the hull.