[PVP] Harbinger

[prometheus]

I like my nos fit tbh ><
Just.. don't fight hurricanes at zero from the start.

[Gix Tyrionn]

A fight vs a cane will be over before you cap out even if it starts at zero. I'll even venture to say the cap booster won't be necessary for many fights, a ship that goes under 900m/s isn't going to rack up alot of time burning around grid.

The only place where I've had trouble with cap in a plate+buffer harb involved heavy neuts or curses, and I don't know anyone who was dumb enough to fly that fit as long as I did before moving onto other things.


Eft doesn't point towards my experience being wrong, conflag has close to a minute and a half under 2x med neuts with the mwd running and close to 3 minutes if your not running your mwd at zero like a tard. inmf gives you the full 3 minutes under neuts.


I'd say there could be something to sacrificing only a single resist rig for greater cap stability but I don't think a medium nos will help a harb's regen enough.

I hate using eft to guesstimate cap related things but if the nos ran as a perfect +regen it would increase your cap regen by 5%, compared to 20% on a deimos, or 30% on a cookie cutter enyo. Both of those ships wouldn't have a cap booster to turn off the nos's regen when it kicks on.

[OrangeAfroMan]

So, I looked at the numbers on the Harbinger, and realized the DPS is actually a bit shit o_O

With FMP and two Heat Sinks, you're only doing 462 / 368 gun DPS (IN MF / Scorch).

Currently working on a Heavy Pulse fit but the grid is tighter than a 14 year old.

[Daneel Trevize]

Graph it, doing that at 20+km really ain't bad.

[LordsServant]

So, I looked at the numbers on the Harbinger, and realized the DPS is actually a bit shit o_O

With FMP and two Heat Sinks, you're only doing 462 / 368 gun DPS (IN MF / Scorch).

Currently working on a Heavy Pulse fit but the grid is tighter than a 14 year old.

Tier 3 BC overuseage detected.

If you look at those/fly those a lot, anything that does less than 700-800 dps looks like shit, when in fact it's not. Tier 3 BCs are just rofltastically OP and require all the skill of a kindergartner to fly. When you deal retarded dps at range like they do, its hard to compete in a dps race in anything else.

The key is to fly ships with low sigs, as you can laugh at all the terribru tier 3 BC pilots wondering why they can't shred this "shitty cruiser" with their >900 dps :P

Most regular BCs will lose to tier 3 BCs in terms of just about anything but ehp/tank. Look at leveraging that, rather than their ability to project dps at range, as in most cases they will appear shit in comparison.

[Daneel Trevize]

A key point being sig radius of weapons isn't significantly displayed in most tools. Tracking might be, but again, graph things to see the effect of any transversal.

[Smuggo]

Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).

[Varcaus]

Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).

Oracles?

[LordsServant]

Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).

Oracles?

N+1 COUNTER ZOMFG THEYRE OP NERF EM NERF EM NERF EM! (Same exact thing as Supercaps tbh, but just like supercaps, there are very valid counters. Key is people need to stop being retarded and use the counter. That said, just like supercaps, these need some slight nerfing.) Ofc, knowing :CCP: we're gonna end up with them nerfed into the ground like titans are atm.

[Smuggo]

Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).

Oracles?

No, it involves zealots and an oneiros

[Lunkwill]

Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).

Oracles?

No, it involves zealots and an oneiros

You can add some sentry Ishtars and a single boost Loki to that mix aswell. ABhac sigtanking.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

So, I looked at the numbers on the Harbinger, and realized the DPS is actually a bit shit o_O

With FMP and two Heat Sinks, you're only doing 462 / 368 gun DPS (IN MF / Scorch).

Currently working on a Heavy Pulse fit but the grid is tighter than a 14 year old.

Drone bay helps the binger a lot.

[jockothemonkey]

So, I looked at the numbers on the Harbinger, and realized the DPS is actually a bit shit o_O

With FMP and two Heat Sinks, you're only doing 462 / 368 gun DPS (IN MF / Scorch).

Currently working on a Heavy Pulse fit but the grid is tighter than a 14 year old.

You can run a fit with Heavy Pulse provided you have AWU V and a 3% grid implant for a full rack, but the performance is going to be about the same as using FMP with 3 heat sinks so it really comes down to whether that extra 50ish dps is worth giving up about 10k ehp.
[Harbinger, HP 2HS]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 200

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
63k EHP 525ish gun dps.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Created a Harbinger fit I like a little more:

[Harbinger, Harbinger - Solo 800mm]

Small Armor Repairer II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Internal Force Field Array I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Hammerhead II x5

535 | 615 DPS w/ IN MF sans drones
426 | 490 DPS w/ Scorch sans drones
46.5k EHP
974 | 1376 m/s
9.8s align

Do like:
Heavy Pulse DPS
Speed/Agility increase from 1600 fit

Do not like:
Small Rep
12k less EHP and all of that is in armor

We'll see how it works out. I favor DPS over EHP for soloing anyway.

I do want to test this versus FMP/MAR/1600 and FMP/1600/3HS, I have a feeling the 1600 fits might be better.
HP IIs on this ship are only a 13.6% DPS increase for a 20.6% loss of EHP + almost 100 DPS repped.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

I prefer the 1600 + FMP fit.

Although also have had success in the past using less obvious gangboosters for example:

[Harbinger, 1600FMPLink]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


In fleets of just 3-4 BC, you get a big effectiveness multiplier.

95k EHP w/ link running
620 DPS before heat w/ multifreq + hammers, 527 @ 20km w/ scorch.

of course the other good thing about the link is that you can alternatively scrap the 2nd tank module for another heatsink, and you effectively have both the EANM and the 3rd damage mod fit.

[n0th]

Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II

The CVA "form 30 duders for 1 ship" faggot is strong in this one.
If you're gonna roll passive armor BC, why not do it correctly?

[Harbinger, armor + link]

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Heat Sink II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
Coreli A-Type Kinetic Plating
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I

add HG slaves and you have the perfect solo lowsec fagmobile. Cheap, battleship tank (120k+ eHP w/ nice resist profile), way more engageable than any battleship. Especially because potential targets wont see the cloaky legion scouting.

[Varcaus]

Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II

The CVA "form 30 duders for 1 ship" faggot is strong in this one.
If you're gonna roll passive armor BC, why not do it correctly?

[Harbinger, armor + link]

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Heat Sink II
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
Coreli A-Type Kinetic Plating
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II

Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I

add HG slaves and you have the perfect solo lowsec fagmobile. Cheap, battleship tank (120k+ eHP w/ nice resist profile), way more engageable than any battleship. Especially because potential targets wont see the cloaky legion scouting.

Wat? CJEVE are not blobbers mate. (unless we get told there are 8 bc and support and find 3 )

[Smuggo]

Fukken sebos? Terrible, get the fuck out.

[Rudolf Miller]

I haven't looked myself, but it might be CPU tightness that caused the SEBOs.. but even still...

[Daneel Trevize]

I haven't looked either, but meta4 or T2 sebos are 8 or 10 cpu each. That's a meta1 web and a spare mid for a better option at the very least. I know there's better FMP + 1600 or m neut fits.