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Thread: [PVP] Harbinger

  1. #41
    prometheus's Avatar
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    I like my nos fit tbh ><
    Just.. don't fight hurricanes at zero from the start.
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  2. #42
    Gix Tyrionn's Avatar
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    A fight vs a cane will be over before you cap out even if it starts at zero. I'll even venture to say the cap booster won't be necessary for many fights, a ship that goes under 900m/s isn't going to rack up alot of time burning around grid.

    The only place where I've had trouble with cap in a plate+buffer harb involved heavy neuts or curses, and I don't know anyone who was dumb enough to fly that fit as long as I did before moving onto other things.


    Eft doesn't point towards my experience being wrong, conflag has close to a minute and a half under 2x med neuts with the mwd running and close to 3 minutes if your not running your mwd at zero like a tard. inmf gives you the full 3 minutes under neuts.


    I'd say there could be something to sacrificing only a single resist rig for greater cap stability but I don't think a medium nos will help a harb's regen enough.

    I hate using eft to guesstimate cap related things but if the nos ran as a perfect +regen it would increase your cap regen by 5%, compared to 20% on a deimos, or 30% on a cookie cutter enyo. Both of those ships wouldn't have a cap booster to turn off the nos's regen when it kicks on.
    Last edited by Gix Tyrionn; March 31 2012 at 04:11:03 AM.

  3. #43
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    So, I looked at the numbers on the Harbinger, and realized the DPS is actually a bit shit o_O

    With FMP and two Heat Sinks, you're only doing 462 / 368 gun DPS (IN MF / Scorch).

    Currently working on a Heavy Pulse fit but the grid is tighter than a 14 year old.
    Actually an '06.

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  4. #44
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Graph it, doing that at 20+km really ain't bad.

  5. #45
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    So, I looked at the numbers on the Harbinger, and realized the DPS is actually a bit shit o_O

    With FMP and two Heat Sinks, you're only doing 462 / 368 gun DPS (IN MF / Scorch).

    Currently working on a Heavy Pulse fit but the grid is tighter than a 14 year old.
    Tier 3 BC overuseage detected.

    If you look at those/fly those a lot, anything that does less than 700-800 dps looks like shit, when in fact it's not. Tier 3 BCs are just rofltastically OP and require all the skill of a kindergartner to fly. When you deal retarded dps at range like they do, its hard to compete in a dps race in anything else.

    The key is to fly ships with low sigs, as you can laugh at all the terribru tier 3 BC pilots wondering why they can't shred this "shitty cruiser" with their >900 dps :P

    Most regular BCs will lose to tier 3 BCs in terms of just about anything but ehp/tank. Look at leveraging that, rather than their ability to project dps at range, as in most cases they will appear shit in comparison.

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  6. #46
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    A key point being sig radius of weapons isn't significantly displayed in most tools. Tracking might be, but again, graph things to see the effect of any transversal.

  7. #47
    Smuggo
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    Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

    Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).

  8. #48
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

    Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).
    Oracles?

  9. #49
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

    Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).
    Oracles?
    N+1 COUNTER ZOMFG THEYRE OP NERF EM NERF EM NERF EM! (Same exact thing as Supercaps tbh, but just like supercaps, there are very valid counters. Key is people need to stop being retarded and use the counter. That said, just like supercaps, these need some slight nerfing.) Ofc, knowing :CCP: we're gonna end up with them nerfed into the ground like titans are atm.

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  10. #50
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

    Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).
    Oracles?
    No, it involves zealots and an oneiros

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Yeah its nice optimal range with Scorch is somewhat crappy once you consider Tier3 BCs.

    Despite this I have theorycrafted an Amarr fleet of pure win to defeat Tier3 gangs and hope to try it out soon(tm).
    Oracles?
    No, it involves zealots and an oneiros
    You can add some sentry Ishtars and a single boost Loki to that mix aswell. ABhac sigtanking.

  12. #52
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    So, I looked at the numbers on the Harbinger, and realized the DPS is actually a bit shit o_O

    With FMP and two Heat Sinks, you're only doing 462 / 368 gun DPS (IN MF / Scorch).

    Currently working on a Heavy Pulse fit but the grid is tighter than a 14 year old.
    Drone bay helps the binger a lot.
    I tried to be cool and all I got was a lousy warning about my sig being too big.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    So, I looked at the numbers on the Harbinger, and realized the DPS is actually a bit shit o_O

    With FMP and two Heat Sinks, you're only doing 462 / 368 gun DPS (IN MF / Scorch).

    Currently working on a Heavy Pulse fit but the grid is tighter than a 14 year old.
    You can run a fit with Heavy Pulse provided you have AWU V and a 3% grid implant for a full rack, but the performance is going to be about the same as using FMP with 3 heat sinks so it really comes down to whether that extra 50ish dps is worth giving up about 10k ehp.
    [Harbinger, HP 2HS]
    Heat Sink II
    Heat Sink II
    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Adaptive Nano Plating II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Damage Control II

    Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
    J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
    X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
    Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 200

    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    [empty high slot]

    Medium Ancillary Current Router I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    63k EHP 525ish gun dps.

  14. #54
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Created a Harbinger fit I like a little more:

    [Harbinger, Harbinger - Solo 800mm]

    Small Armor Repairer II
    800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Internal Force Field Array I
    Heat Sink II
    Heat Sink II

    Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
    X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
    Warp Disruptor II

    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    [Empty High slot]

    Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
    Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
    Medium Ancillary Current Router I


    Hammerhead II x5

    535 | 615 DPS w/ IN MF sans drones
    426 | 490 DPS w/ Scorch sans drones
    46.5k EHP
    974 | 1376 m/s
    9.8s align

    Do like:
    Heavy Pulse DPS
    Speed/Agility increase from 1600 fit

    Do not like:
    Small Rep
    12k less EHP and all of that is in armor

    We'll see how it works out. I favor DPS over EHP for soloing anyway.

    I do want to test this versus FMP/MAR/1600 and FMP/1600/3HS, I have a feeling the 1600 fits might be better.
    HP IIs on this ship are only a 13.6% DPS increase for a 20.6% loss of EHP + almost 100 DPS repped.
    Last edited by OrangeAfroMan; May 28 2012 at 06:12:13 AM.
    Actually an '06.

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  15. #55
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    I prefer the 1600 + FMP fit.

    Although also have had success in the past using less obvious gangboosters for example:

    [Harbinger, 1600FMPLink]
    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Adaptive Nano Plating II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Damage Control II
    Heat Sink II
    Heat Sink II

    Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
    Faint Warp Disruptor I
    Sensor Booster II
    Sensor Booster II

    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II

    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


    In fleets of just 3-4 BC, you get a big effectiveness multiplier.

    95k EHP w/ link running
    620 DPS before heat w/ multifreq + hammers, 527 @ 20km w/ scorch.

    of course the other good thing about the link is that you can alternatively scrap the 2nd tank module for another heatsink, and you effectively have both the EANM and the 3rd damage mod fit.
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  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrus Tenebros View Post
    Sensor Booster II
    Sensor Booster II
    The CVA "form 30 duders for 1 ship" faggot is strong in this one.
    If you're gonna roll passive armor BC, why not do it correctly?

    [Harbinger, armor + link]

    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Internal Force Field Array I
    Heat Sink II
    Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
    Coreli A-Type Kinetic Plating
    Heat Sink II

    Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
    X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
    Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
    Warp Disruptor II

    Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I

    add HG slaves and you have the perfect solo lowsec fagmobile. Cheap, battleship tank (120k+ eHP w/ nice resist profile), way more engageable than any battleship. Especially because potential targets wont see the cloaky legion scouting.
    Last edited by n0th; May 29 2012 at 10:18:38 AM.

  17. #57
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrus Tenebros View Post
    Sensor Booster II
    Sensor Booster II
    The CVA "form 30 duders for 1 ship" faggot is strong in this one.
    If you're gonna roll passive armor BC, why not do it correctly?

    [Harbinger, armor + link]

    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Internal Force Field Array I
    Heat Sink II
    Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
    Coreli A-Type Kinetic Plating
    Heat Sink II

    Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
    X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
    Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
    Warp Disruptor II

    Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
    Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I

    add HG slaves and you have the perfect solo lowsec fagmobile. Cheap, battleship tank (120k+ eHP w/ nice resist profile), way more engageable than any battleship. Especially because potential targets wont see the cloaky legion scouting.
    Wat? CJEVE are not blobbers mate. (unless we get told there are 8 bc and support and find 3 )

  18. #58
    Smuggo
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    Fukken sebos? Terrible, get the fuck out.

  19. #59
    Donor Rudolf Miller's Avatar
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    I haven't looked myself, but it might be CPU tightness that caused the SEBOs.. but even still...

  20. #60
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    I haven't looked either, but meta4 or T2 sebos are 8 or 10 cpu each. That's a meta1 web and a spare mid for a better option at the very least. I know there's better FMP + 1600 or m neut fits.

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