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Thread: Kingdom Come: Deliverance

  1. #361

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancehot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Saul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancehot View Post
    I'm not sure the exact level, but it doesn't take too much time with Bernard to get gud. Indeed for most skills you only need a few levels for it to feel like the difficulty got turned down a notch. Parrying is far more effective than just blocking, so you want to do it whenever possible. But sometimes just blocking a flurry of strikes is the easier option. Oh & I don't know about anyone else, but I've found 0 reason to take any of the perks that give you bonuses to some stats but penalties to others. This ain't that type of game, imo.
    But no combat slowdown stuff? Fuck knows how I'm supposed to deal with the harder enemies then. Got help from bernard as suggested and now I can actually ask him for training, but it costs 60 gold a go? Not going to be able to afford much of it at that price.

    Edit: oh my fucking god. You go to Bernard. You ask to train in defence. You pay your gold. And then you get a stat boost?! FUCKING REALLY?! What happened to the ACTUAL training for fuck's sake?!
    When he's at the training ground, you'll be able to ask to train with practice or real swords. Pick practice & get your arse kicked till you start to suffer some injuries. Then surrender (G, I think, although simply sheathing your sword has the same effect), heal up (sleep, take a marigold potion or visit the bath). Once you're about lvl5, you'll probably be good enough to learn counter moves & master strikes from him, which tbh aren't great but they're useful to know. You unlock weapon combos as you skill up your weapon. Actually pulling them off is a bit of a pain, since usually the opponent either dies or parries before completing them. But at least they stop you from just flailing wildly.
    Even training with wooden stuff gets you leveled up and borderline op for half the game.

    The combat is frustrating because it downright doesn't allow you to do shit while implying you can until the dude arbitrarily teaches it to you. Like your character is too retarded to think of hitting enemies when parrying them but moves like a pro from day one.

    It's pretty shit and the mouse controls are dire, but with a few levels and doing the training uou go from useless to op in seconds.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    The combat is frustrating because it downright doesn't allow you to do shit while implying you can until the dude arbitrarily teaches it to you.
    This is exactly the problem. Game says go kill two bandits so off you go. No way to know that you don't stand a chance, or that you could get help., so you get trounced again and again. There's enough text dialogue leading up to it that you could be given a hint that help is needed. Fucking awful design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    It's pretty shit and the mouse controls are dire, but with a few levels and doing the training uou go from useless to op in seconds.
    Mouse controls really are dire. Using the centred point is virtually impossible intentionally and input control over the directions is all over the place. Whole thing feels developed for xbox controllers and the like. Might give that a try actually, maybe it'll actually work as intended instead of throwing the camera around left, right, anywhere but at the enemy you're fighting. Distance is arbitrary as fuck as well, plenty of times I've been within striking range only for hits to fall short, while their counter instantly hits. Maybe they have extendable swords or something, I mean holy fuck (and no they are not dodging away/back).

    So far some good characters and story but that is literally the only good thing I can find to say at this point, 13 or so hours in. Everything else is needlessly obtuse bullshit or mechanics so janky you have to wonder how they ever got through play-testing.
    Last edited by Saul; March 4 2018 at 09:44:25 PM.

  3. #363

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    The combat is frustrating because it downright doesn't allow you to do shit while implying you can until the dude arbitrarily teaches it to you.
    This is exactly the problem. Game says go kill two bandits so off you go. No way to know that you don't stand a chance, or that you could get help., so you get trounced again and again. There's enough text dialogue leading up to it that you could be given a hint that help is needed. Fucking awful design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    It's pretty shit and the mouse controls are dire, but with a few levels and doing the training uou go from useless to op in seconds.
    Mouse controls really are dire. Using the centred point is virtually impossible intentionally and input control over the directions is all over the place. Whole thing feels developed for xbox controllers and the like. Might give that a try actually, maybe it'll actually work as intended instead of throwing the camera around left, right, anywhere but at the enemy you're fighting. Distance is arbitrary as fuck as well, plenty of times I've been within striking range only for hits to fall short, while their counter instantly hits. Maybe they have extendable swords or something, I mean holy fuck (and no they are not dodging away/back).

    So far some good characters and story but that is literally the only good thing I can find to say at this point, 13 or so hours in. Everything else is needlessly obtuse bullshit or mechanics so janky you have to wonder how they ever got through play-testing.
    Don't get me started about the story presentation as that is one of my pet peeves until it opens up and becomes medieval CSI but yeah characters are fun. :P

    I did end up using controller for melee and it felt much better yeah.

  4. #364
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    Controller is the only way I can see it being possible. Combos on a mouse are an absolute fucking joke. And apparently there was a beta?! How the fuck did that combat system get through a PC beta when it's unplayable with a mouse?!

    To anyone still on the fence, as I was, my advice is: don't waste your money, wait for a sale and several patches to fix the schoolboy shit like the horrific texture pop-in, janky quests and massive loading pauses when initiating conversation with basic NPCs.

    If you don't own a wired xbox controller, don't bother with the game. At all.

  5. #365
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul View Post
    Controller is the only way I can see it being possible. Combos on a mouse are an absolute fucking joke. And apparently there was a beta?! How the fuck did that combat system get through a PC beta when it's unplayable with a mouse?!

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Saul View Post
    Controller is the only way I can see it being possible. Combos on a mouse are an absolute fucking joke. And apparently there was a beta?! How the fuck did that combat system get through a PC beta when it's unplayable with a mouse?!
    Oh no somebody doesn't like your pet slav game for perfectly good reasons

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul View Post
    Controller is the only way I can see it being possible. Combos on a mouse are an absolute fucking joke. And apparently there was a beta?! How the fuck did that combat system get through a PC beta when it's unplayable with a mouse?!

    To anyone still on the fence, as I was, my advice is: don't waste your money, wait for a sale and several patches to fix the schoolboy shit like the horrific texture pop-in, janky quests and massive loading pauses when initiating conversation with basic NPCs.

    If you don't own a wired xbox controller, don't bother with the game. At all.
    I havn't played yet, but from the amount of people complaining... maybe it is you?
    Hiro Cor

  8. #368

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    People put up with it, because its overall a p. good rpg

    I circumvented the dogshit combat system by getting strength/sword to near 20 pretty early + abusing the fuck out of AI glitches when entering combat and/or stealth

    Still getting shit on by what i assume is one of the final "kill bandits" quests near Sasau, where you have to kill what feels like a 10-man bandit camp. Got 7 or so dudes over 3 or 4 sessions involving lengthy benny-hilling and stealth AFTER running out of save potions, then fucked up and got killed by probably camp leader in one combo.

    Shit like this, while involving usage of massively clunky mechanics and glitches is ~challenge~ though (also side quest, all main quest combat so far is just mash butan/one hit kill)


    I can also totally see people being turned off by railroad main quest line and literally Fallout 4 level of shitty dialogue options like
    - "ok i'll do it"
    - "i dont wanna do it!, but i'll do it anyway, because there is no alternative questline path"
    (thing is though, last game that had some world-impacting choice was Tyranny, and its not even the same genre)

    There are a shitton of bugs/glitches/stuck quest trigger scripts as well, sure, isnt it normal these days though?
    Last edited by n0th; March 5 2018 at 11:47:02 AM.

  9. #369
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    Still getting shit on by what i assume is one of the final "kill bandits" quests near Sasau, where you have to kill what feels like a 10-man bandit camp. Got 7 or so dudes over 3 or 4 sessions involving lengthy benny-hilling and stealth AFTER running out of save potions, then fucked up and got killed by probably camp leader in one combo.
    I've just sneaked up on the leader and knifed him, then double-tapped someone else and had a wholesome fight with 3 medium tier dudes.

    My magdeburg longsword with 20 str is just boring because lucky onestabs during enemy attack telegraphing are the best option. I've installed a mod that balances stat influence and combat AI but haven't played much after.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corwyna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Saul View Post
    Controller is the only way I can see it being possible. Combos on a mouse are an absolute fucking joke. And apparently there was a beta?! How the fuck did that combat system get through a PC beta when it's unplayable with a mouse?!

    To anyone still on the fence, as I was, my advice is: don't waste your money, wait for a sale and several patches to fix the schoolboy shit like the horrific texture pop-in, janky quests and massive loading pauses when initiating conversation with basic NPCs.

    If you don't own a wired xbox controller, don't bother with the game. At all.
    I havn't played yet, but from the amount of people complaining... maybe it is you?
    ROFL that must be it. It couldn't possibly be that it's a shit mechanic aimed solely at console players. I mean, where's the evidence? And all the reviews were so favourable!

  11. #371
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    til i'm a console player

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    til i'm a console player
    In fairness to your earlier comments, I did some reading and watched a few videos when I got home tonight, then went back for another go. With a hefty increase to mouse sensitivity I could just about manage to pull off the basic training combo with the mouse. I've leveled Sword to 8 or 9 tonight, along with the other combat skills, and things are improving. Surprisingly, Bernard went from laughing in my face to seeming to struggle towards the end of it, which was encouraging (although possibly entirely coincidental). I even tried out some of the other weapons, before realising that my armour was still taking damage rather abruptly when I got pummelled within an inch of my life trying the mace tutorial (lol no blunt protection cause all padded armour at 0).

    So. I partially retract my earlier statement that it's not playable without a controller, and change it to 'not playable without a controller, very high mouse sensitivity or naturally good dexterity'. Right now a major issue is being unable to use the 'centre' point with the mouse - no matter what I do I can't get it to register the position, though that may be a consequence of the high sensitivity - which makes most of the combos I can access unusable. Dodge seems flaky as fuck as well, sometimes I trigger it completely unintentionally but I can rarely pull off a dodge deliberately.

    Still massively frustrating though is that you apparently need to learn ALL the shit from the trainer before you become even slightly effective, and at no point does the game tell you that or even hint at it, not even before telling you to go take on two powerful bandits (and you don't get a chance to train prior to this because it's all time-constrained quests until Neuhof). That's a real shame, because it could have avoided so much frustration (holy fuck was I pissed at this game last night, in case you couldn't tell). Instead you just get dudes force-jumping out of the way, grabbing your weapon mid-swing and beating you with it and all sorts of other nonsense that feels like such bullshit because you literally cannot do it. With the odd repeated hint to point you back towards the trainer, and giving the player some space in the early game to go do it instead of having you running around after every Lord and his mother, so much of the hate the game gets could be avoided.

    So - no hard feelings etc. Was very pissed off at the needlessly obtuse bullshit this game pulls. Sorry if I came across as a total cunt.

    Edit: btw, there was a patch tonight. Not sure what it did though, couldn't find patch notes with a brief google.
    Last edited by Saul; March 5 2018 at 09:48:39 PM.

  13. #373

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    til i'm a console player
    So - no hard feelings etc. Was very pissed off at the needlessly obtuse bullshit this game pulls. Sorry if I came across as a total cunt.
    This is FHC. We wouldn't expect anything less!

    I'm still holding out for a few weeks / months until the patches and mods have fixed the game properly. Nursing a factorio addiction in the meantime.

  14. #374

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    If by centre point you mean stab, that's the right mouse button (or whatever the controller equivalent is). Bugged me for ages because I keep thinking lmb to attack, rmb to defend. Hundreds of hours of Skyrim has proved hard to shake off.

    If you have anything else to play, I'd say wait till it's fully (fan) patched &/or on sale this summer. I definitely got my money's worth. But if I had other games I wanted to play atm, I probably wouldn't have put up with its crap as long as I have.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancehot View Post
    If by centre point you mean stab, that's the right mouse button (or whatever the controller equivalent is). Bugged me for ages because I keep thinking lmb to attack, rmb to defend. Hundreds of hours of Skyrim has proved hard to shake off.
    Hang on, what? So the centre point is just the rmb stab attack? Wow, it never tells you that... I've spent this whole time thinking it's another 'combat direction'. Will test this out later, nice one!

  16. #376
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    intensifies

  17. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancehot View Post
    If by centre point you mean stab, that's the right mouse button (or whatever the controller equivalent is). Bugged me for ages because I keep thinking lmb to attack, rmb to defend. Hundreds of hours of Skyrim has proved hard to shake off.

    If you have anything else to play, I'd say wait till it's fully (fan) patched &/or on sale this summer. I definitely got my money's worth. But if I had other games I wanted to play atm, I probably wouldn't have put up with its crap as long as I have.
    Sounds like you and a lot of other people here need to look out there because there are a shitton of good games around these days. :P

  18. #378
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    Just going to point out that all the dont-follow-the-quest-exactly options where you do other things like not dive in and commit to the fight to save theresa at the start/not engage two good bandits solo are actually telegraphed if you listen to the fucking game, its just punishing you for being too dense to apply an actual common-sense solution (of which there are actually many to a lot of the game's challenges).

    It also outright tells you "go get fucking trained, you're a blacksmith's son who cant even take the head off a piece of green wood with an amazing sword yet". Ignoring that and trying to
      Spoiler:
    solo runt AFTER the first time you met sounds like something you should have to learn the hard way is dumb. You can still kill him with shite stats, though, have tried, mace and some well timed pokes to the face until he has low health (and thus low stamina), followed by aggressive wild swinging will reward you with a cutscene with no sign of that mace whatsoever...

  19. #379
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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      Spoiler:
    Second Runt fight is still a massive dick move. If there was some other solution like idk surviving long enough for kobyla and bernie to show up or he missteps on some broken plank and falls down clinging to the floor then it would fly.
    As it stands i only nailed him on third time (because i had fuck all HP on first and he just combofucked me on second after a minute of dirty dancing) with two lucky facestabs. Him not having a helmet on was also pretty dumb and OOC for this game.

  20. #380

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody_Holme View Post
    Just going to point out that all the dont-follow-the-quest-exactly options where you do other things like not dive in and commit to the fight to save theresa at the start/not engage two good bandits solo are actually telegraphed if you listen to the fucking game, its just punishing you for being too dense to apply an actual common-sense solution (of which there are actually many to a lot of the game's challenges).

    It also outright tells you "go get fucking trained, you're a blacksmith's son who cant even take the head off a piece of green wood with an amazing sword yet". Ignoring that and trying to
      Spoiler:
    solo runt AFTER the first time you met sounds like something you should have to learn the hard way is dumb. You can still kill him with shite stats, though, have tried, mace and some well timed pokes to the face until he has low health (and thus low stamina), followed by aggressive wild swinging will reward you with a cutscene with no sign of that mace whatsoever...
    Too bad you have zero choice in how things play out or how you react once a cutscene of doom starts because the blacksmith's son in question is a patented idiot. Also the fact you're swinging a sword like a pro in combat from day 1 counter to everything the game tells you and cutscenes show (really, he can't swing at a stick but 5 minutes later he's murdering bandits with swings as precise as days of training later?). Showing things through actual gameplay and the way he feels *in game* would have helped a lot to cement that feeling down imo instead of just arbitrarily disabling abilities which you then master one second after guy x shows them to you. (but not if someone else uses them on you, no, then you can't possibly figure it out)

    There are a bunch of things the game fails at showing in its gameplay to a spectacular manner and sucking its dick off every opportunity doesn't do much.

    *that said*

    What mr. Holme here said is indeed true and the game does yell at you to get trained pretty well so not sure how people miss that. :P

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