[PVP] Brutix

[slight]

Blue pill doesn't work with ASBs does it? Or has it been 'fixed'?

[Daneel Trevize]

Fixed, does, just things like PyFA don't calc it properly (or ship bonuses e.g. Maelstrom)

[slight]

Oh my....

Edit: EFT calcs Mael bonuses btw.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

For reference, my calculations use the following fit: Note I use a PDS as the shieldgank brutix takes advantage of all of the increases it gives (shield HP, cap amount, cap recharge, shield recharge, and PG so you don't need an implant)

[Brutix, ShieldBrutix]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I
Co-Processor II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Hammerhead II x5

(ok to be fair this needs a +2%/+3% CPU implant or technically a 5% Weapon upgrades slot 10 implant

and


[Brutix, PassiveShieldBurtix]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5


If you consider the implant a given you can drop the PDS and fit either a 4th magstab, tracking enhancer, or overdrive in the last low.



Refer to last post previous page for math.

[Meester]

I can't imagine how awesome the Brutix will be with tiericide. Heres hoping its very.

[Sponk]

I can't imagine how awesome the Brutix will be with tiericide. Heres hoping its very.

1 more low slot, 1 more high slot?

[prometheus]

1 more mid slot (eccm/cap), 1 less high slot (less cap usage, bigger guns), 1 more slot (more tank/dps), slightly more grid
HERE'S HOPING

[Tyrus Tenebros]

1 more mid slot (eccm/cap), 1 less high slot (less cap usage, bigger guns), 1 more slot (more tank/dps), slightly more grid
HERE'S HOPING

less guns? wat.

[prometheus]

1 more mid slot (eccm/cap), 1 less high slot (less cap usage, bigger guns), 1 more slot (more tank/dps), slightly more grid
HERE'S HOPING

less guns? wat.

The only situation where a 6 guns brutix would be doing much less dps than the current, is in gank form.
However +1 mid would allow for another shield mod and result in waaay more ehp, and +1 low would allow for range mods etc.
It *should* get some more grid though.
edit: this is in reference to people running gank fits, not *normal* fits

Other than that, a 6/5/6 layout is far superior as it's basically a Myrm with a turret damage bonus.
The Myrm is still advantageous though, as it's a drone boat. Difference being that you could kill off its damage.

Ideally, the Myrm would lose some turret slots, grid, and gain some bandwidth (ie: 5 ogres).
Tradeoff for the heavies is that they're easy as hell to kill. And therefore, you've now got two pretty equal BCs that do the same job, only differently.

edit: increase brutix turret bonus to 7.5% percent as well, totally forgot about that bit :P

[Daneel Trevize]

Shield-tanking something with an active armour rep bonus should not be encouraged. Give it a low and/or tweak the bonus&fitting if you give it the option of 2 cap injectors + mwd, scram, web, so people don't just herp derp dual LSE it. I mean, the Ferox should get a boost at the same time so if you want a shield blaster BC, look there (and Talos & Naga of course because :tier3s: ).

[Smuggo]

The ferox just does it better with the xlasb due to the nice resist bonus IMO. Not as much damage output but with a web too it's more able to apply that damage.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

Just remove the rep bonus and add tracking: the myrmidons description specifically states its supposed to be more conservative than other ships.

Add a low and increase PG enough to maybe fit a 1600 plate with ions or thereabouts.

It'd then be a gallente hurricane. Gankier, more drones, no neuts

[Daneel Trevize]

Because we need more Hurricane-wannabes

Also it only has as many drones as the Harb

[Tyrus Tenebros]

Because we need more Hurricane-wannabes

Also it only has as many drones as the Harb

I meant in terms of flexibility and fitting/slots. The cane keeps neuts, the brutix keeps dps.

Dont see how that's a problem. It's not like I suggested a bonus to autocannons

[Daneel Trevize]

Because you're perhaps only considering where the Cane works with neuts, i.e. AC fit, when you say that. And still playing in to the EHP + DPS all-the-things boring thinking.

CCP are also doing a role thing during this rebalancing, so (presumably they ignore the tier3s and say) 1 of each ex-tier1/2 becomes a ranged/support/bombardment/whatever-bollocks-name-this-week platform. Drake has HMs already (come on nerf HM range, yeah right), Cane has the PG for Arties (dat PG, is 'needed' for 2xm neuts with long point to deal with frigs all on it's own, ignore those TEs & being OP unsupported), so Brutix will possibly get swapped from active tanking to that shitty tracking bonus for lolterribad rails (so so fucking bad, seriously check them). Active tankers will get told to use the Myrm, and goodbye goes the active blaster boat because ships will be made to only do 1 role. :balance:

Fuck that world. If I wanted a shield Cane that didn't have neuts but dps & drones, I'd pick the Harb or the Myrm and ignore their bonuses instead, or just shove some missiles in the cane's highs (dps is p fucking good then). If you don't promote the current idea of the Brutix's bonuses it's worthless having in game just for the sake of avoid minimal cross-training.

The other way they might look to do it is somehow improved rails Ferox which will only work with a big needed buff to rails, somehow force the arties Cyclone as favoured over the arty Cane but what about that active tanking bonus, and then the Myrm get told to use some bad combo of rails + m drones, or sentries and it loses the rep bonus instead, so the Brutix can remain the brawler. HAM Drake being the Caldari brawler. It's really hard to do this style of rebalancing and keep the PG on the Cane, it'd fit much easier if it had a slight nerf to make arties tricker but still somehow give up the point blank advantage to a buffed active Cyclone. Actually perhaps losing at least 1 utility high would do it. And how's a rails Ferox ever really going to complete with a HM Drake anyway?

TL;DR: moving the Brutix away from an active tanking bonus is very bad for variety. Thus expect it next Summer (if they manage all frigs, dessys & cruisers during Winter). If you don't want the same ship in each race, why suggest removing the racial tanking bonus in favour of tracking on a ship that should have full tackle and the best base tracking weapons?

[Warmenhoven]

dat PG, is 'needed' for 2xm neuts with long point to deal with frigs all on it's own, ignore those TEs & being OP unsupported)

The fuck kinda fit are you running cracker? Surely you mean two small neuts!

Also most of that was purely bad. Why would you want to force arties on a cyclone when the cane already does that and the cyclone gets the active bonus which so characterises brawlers in your opinion? Also you do realise that it's entirely possible to fit an active myrm with blasters yes? And traditionally active tankers have been told to use the myrm anyway, it's just a much stronger platform for it. TBH all your points are pretty garbage.

IMO i would like to see the brutix with two more lows so it can fit a decent tank and some DPS mods. Loosing a turret like prom suggests would not be the worst thing in the world to get that although i deff wouldn't like any more mids on it.

Regarding the XLASB fits would it not work in a kind of simmilar way to the cane that Kovorix uses? You'd have to swap ammo between Null and AM sometimes but that's only 5 seconds now.

[Daneel Trevize]

The current AC shield Hurricane fits 2 medium neuts. IDK why you're mistaken.

An active Myrm dedicates almost if not all lows to tank if it wants to fight something in its class. Yes post-crucible it's debatable to go with Blasters over ACs.

The reasons for discussing an arty Cyclone are:
1) I forgot that while the Claymore, SFI and several other Min ships have a tracking bonus, the Cyclone does not. Tracking would be a hint towards arties.
2) Because CCP have said they want to reforge tiers into roles, so realistic discussion of BC changes would be best to factor this in, and they'll buff weak ships rather than nerf strong ones. If the discussion here is to replace the Brutix tanking bonus with tracking, and the Ferox has a range bonus, then it seemed easiest to buff the Cyclone up to be able to run tracking+damage bonused arties. But you're right this would leave only the Myrm as a BC with an active tanking bonus, and the Cyclone doesn't already have the tracking one. Though the Cane doesn't have a racial tanking bonus unlike the Gal and Cal BCs. It and the Harb are unusual in this regard. Still, a tracking + damage bonused Cane keeping the PG for arties would still be formidable as a brawler & anti-frig support AC+m neuts BC. Minmatar end up with 2 brawlers unless you push the Cyclone to arty bonuses and/or gimp the Cane PG/highs.

[Ophichius]

This is a pretty awesome discussion, but it's not about PvP-fitting the Brutix. Can you split it off into a separate thread please?

-O

[Daneel Trevize]

Tyrus started it Actually Meester did
And it's about PvP fitting the Brutix as well as comparable BCs.

[The Djego]

1 more mid slot (eccm/cap), 1 less high slot (less cap usage, bigger guns), 1 more slot (more tank/dps), slightly more grid
HERE'S HOPING

Funny how times and the point of view can change. She would however still have issues with the to low raw dps(to actually be able to take down a BC after chasing it and forcing it to point blank) and would require a web strength bonus instead the active rep one(like basically any gallente blaster hull bigger than frigs). At least if you aim for gallente hybrid hulls that reassemble the thing they where back in the days instead of the running gag they are since 3.5 years.

edit: increase brutix turret bonus to 7.5% percent as well, totally forgot about that bit :P

Actually if a ship is to short on dps for the job, reducing it isn't the best option. Even more so if you consider combining shit dps with shit range on a lol active tank brutix while the myrm does the same thing just better.