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Thread: Getting in shape/not caring fitness thread

  1. #3841
    shoki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    ITT: I get triggered by ketards

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Eat a crossaint in the morning.
    Lunch at the work cafeteria which can be any thing.
    Sandwich after work at around 5-8 pm.
    Add an occasional beer when I go out with friends and thats that.
    Forgot we usually eat something after basketball every friday. Chips and stuff.

    I've been losing weight because of that but its rather slow and I still dont have any clue what I'm eating nor how much.
    How quickly are you losing weight? It's generally a pretty slow process. 1.5kg a week is a pretty good target to aim for with a decent calory restriction.

    First thing I'd suggest from your diet would be replacing the croisant with something like a banana and coffee. And depending how big your lunch is try to cut down on teh size of the sandwich or amount of fillings.
    wow
    first, zeekar, that sounds like super restrictive diet. only one proper meal a day?
    otoh, keckers, 1.5kg PER WEEK? jesus fuck, that's a LOT
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  2. #3842
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    ITT: I get triggered by ketards

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Eat a crossaint in the morning.
    Lunch at the work cafeteria which can be any thing.
    Sandwich after work at around 5-8 pm.
    Add an occasional beer when I go out with friends and thats that.
    Forgot we usually eat something after basketball every friday. Chips and stuff.

    I've been losing weight because of that but its rather slow and I still dont have any clue what I'm eating nor how much.
    How quickly are you losing weight? It's generally a pretty slow process. 1.5kg a week is a pretty good target to aim for with a decent calory restriction.

    First thing I'd suggest from your diet would be replacing the croisant with something like a banana and coffee. And depending how big your lunch is try to cut down on teh size of the sandwich or amount of fillings.
    wow
    first, zeekar, that sounds like super restrictive diet. only one proper meal a day?
    otoh, keckers, 1.5kg PER WEEK? jesus fuck, that's a LOT
    It isn't if you're a fatty. I've lost around 30kg in a year and it was a slow and tedious process due to me relapsing into eating and irregular gym schedules.

    But it is entirely possible if you're fat to begin with.


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  3. #3843
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    1.5kg/week is possible even if you're not fat.


    

  4. #3844
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    ITT: I get triggered by ketards

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Eat a crossaint in the morning.
    Lunch at the work cafeteria which can be any thing.
    Sandwich after work at around 5-8 pm.
    Add an occasional beer when I go out with friends and thats that.
    Forgot we usually eat something after basketball every friday. Chips and stuff.

    I've been losing weight because of that but its rather slow and I still dont have any clue what I'm eating nor how much.
    How quickly are you losing weight? It's generally a pretty slow process. 1.5kg a week is a pretty good target to aim for with a decent calory restriction.

    First thing I'd suggest from your diet would be replacing the croisant with something like a banana and coffee. And depending how big your lunch is try to cut down on teh size of the sandwich or amount of fillings.
    wow
    first, zeekar, that sounds like super restrictive diet. only one proper meal a day?
    otoh, keckers, 1.5kg PER WEEK? jesus fuck, that's a LOT
    Depends how fat you are. If you're 30% bf then it's a reasonable aim.

    For athletes looking to slowly cut weight the suggested approach is to take your bf%, divide it by 20 and that is the amount of total body mass you should cut per week. For other people this is extremely conservative since losing a bit of lean mass isn't that much of a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  5. #3845
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    Losing over a kilo week are you lot having a fucking laugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  6. #3846
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Losing over a kilo week are you lot having a fucking laugh
    Have you tried trying?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  7. #3847

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    You're discussing apples and oranges. For most people, loosing 0.5 to 1 kg a week is a reasonable and healthy goal. If you are 200 kg and have a lot of flubb, you're going to loose more than that initially. The question in the long run is whether or not your weightloss is going to be sustainable though.

  8. #3848
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Losing over a kilo week are you lot having a fucking laugh
    Have you tried trying?
    No I've only ever been underweight but trying to move that much weight on or off in such a short space of time in a word sounds violent to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  9. #3849
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    A 100kg man at 20% bf can lose 1kg a week and not lose any lean muscle mass. That's a pretty impressive feat by the human body tbh.

    It's a number derived from the calories that can be released from your fat reserves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  10. #3850
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    I'm sure it's physically possible I'm finding it hard to believe it's something people can actually do and maintain for more than like a month

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  11. #3851
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I've done it before, cut from 92kg to 80kg lean in under 3 months. It wasn't especially difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  12. #3852
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    I went from 110 to 85 in under 3 months. I won't lie that it was easy or anything of the sort but it's possible.


    

  13. #3853
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    well fuck me, i must be doing something wrong (i wasn't really doing anything btw, jsut started training)

    i AM battling my body for my whole life, and i AM currently in great shape, but i'm still fat. 90kg on 180cm is a lot.

    i need a fucking plan, i got 4kg this winter and i actually feel the difference when sparring
    ingame: AntonioBanderas
    Detecting epic potential, expecting epic fail.
    Ah yes, the fork: The poor man's trident
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer
    I fucking hate Steven Hawking. Smug little faggot with his stupid chariot

  14. #3854
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoki View Post
    well fuck me, i must be doing something wrong (i wasn't really doing anything btw, jsut started training)

    i AM battling my body for my whole life, and i AM currently in great shape, but i'm still fat. 90kg on 180cm is a lot.

    i need a fucking plan, i got 4kg this winter and i actually feel the difference when sparring
    Eat less.

    Ta-dah!
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #3855
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    In seriousness, count your calories. Be anal about it for a fortnight and try to get an appreciation for how much you are actually eating.

    I did about 6 weeks counting calories ages ago and I now can pretty much eye ball meals and have a pretty decent idea of how many calories I'm getting and how much my weight will change by. Then I weigh myself a few times a week and use that to improve my estimation up or down. It's really quite simple after you've got over the hurdle of calories being nothing more than an abstract concept or buzzword.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  16. #3856
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    Sorry Keckers, it's just not that simple. If it were solely about calories, than why do we bother differentiating between proteins/carbs/fats at all? The body processes these nutrients differently, and they aren't related to their individual calorie counts in the slightest.

    I tried eating less for half a lifetime and it wasn't sustainable because I was constantly hungry. Then I tried eating less carbs and have lasted 15 months so far, during which time I have lost more than a third of my entire bodyweight. Maintaining this has been straightforward because I just don't get hungry like I used to. Hell, I'm only eating twice a day on weekends now.

    If I had to start over but with the knowledge I now have, the first thing I would do is get my fasting blood glucose/insulin levels checked. Because if they're high, then you will never lose bodyfat by simply eating less, unless what you eat less of is mostly carbs. The body burns carbs not because it wants to, but because it has to, because too much glucose in the blood is toxic. T2D is literally the condition of chronic blood glucose toxicity.

    Almost anyone can burn fat by simply cutting out carbs. You might feel a bit shit for a few weeks while the body adjusts, but once it gets used to the idea that you're not feeding it carbage anymore, it will quite happily start burning fat. And that's when the hunger starts to ease, because at that point you've effectively unlocked your own fat stores for self-consumption, so the biological need for top-ups from the outside isn't so strong anymore. Only at that point does eating less in general terms become viable, not before.

    The real reason the world is as fat as it is today is because 40 years ago we were sold a lie, but people keep believing it just because it's been around 40 years. "Eat less, move more", "calories in / calories out", "you are what you eat" are basically the nutritional equivalents of "North Korea, best Korea".

    /rant

  17. #3857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Derindar View Post
    Sorry Keckers, it's just not that simple. If it were solely about calories, than why do we bother differentiating between proteins/carbs/fats at all? The body processes these nutrients differently, and they aren't related to their individual calorie counts in the slightest.

    I tried eating less for half a lifetime and it wasn't sustainable because I was constantly hungry. Then I tried eating less carbs and have lasted 15 months so far, during which time I have lost more than a third of my entire bodyweight. Maintaining this has been straightforward because I just don't get hungry like I used to. Hell, I'm only eating twice a day on weekends now.

    If I had to start over but with the knowledge I now have, the first thing I would do is get my fasting blood glucose/insulin levels checked. Because if they're high, then you will never lose bodyfat by simply eating less, unless what you eat less of is mostly carbs. The body burns carbs not because it wants to, but because it has to, because too much glucose in the blood is toxic. T2D is literally the condition of chronic blood glucose toxicity.

    Almost anyone can burn fat by simply cutting out carbs. You might feel a bit shit for a few weeks while the body adjusts, but once it gets used to the idea that you're not feeding it carbage anymore, it will quite happily start burning fat. And that's when the hunger starts to ease, because at that point you've effectively unlocked your own fat stores for self-consumption, so the biological need for top-ups from the outside isn't so strong anymore. Only at that point does eating less in general terms become viable, not before.

    The real reason the world is as fat as it is today is because 40 years ago we were sold a lie, but people keep believing it just because it's been around 40 years. "Eat less, move more", "calories in / calories out", "you are what you eat" are basically the nutritional equivalents of "North Korea, best Korea".

    /rant
    It really is that simple.

    All the literature suggests your wrong, my own experience suggests your wrong and the experience of people I meet suggests your wrong. Keto is a gimmick that makes eating less food easier. Metabolic pathways for macro nutrients don't matter when under a caloric deficit since all the macronutrients are used and then fat reserves make up the deficit.

    Metabolic ward studies demonstrate no difference in weight loss when protein intake was held constant:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3360561 Metabolic effects of isoenergetic nutrient exchange over 24 hours in relation to obesity in women.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1989409 Energy-intake restriction and diet-composition effects on energy expenditure in men.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2058571 Nutrient balance in humans: effects of diet composition.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1570800 Nutrient balance and energy expenditure during ad libitum feeding of high-fat and high-carbohydrate diets in humans.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9497183 Substrate oxidation and energy expenditure in athletes and nonathletes consuming isoenergetic high- and low-fat diets.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11673772 Regulation of macronutrient balance in healthy young and older men.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8856395 The effect of protein intake on 24-h energy expenditure during energy restriction.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8800484 Effects of dietary fat and carbohydrate exchange on human energy metabolism.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2305878 Energy expenditure in humans: effects of dietary fat and carbohydrate.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8178980 Failure to increase lipid oxidation in response to increasing dietary fat content in formerly obese women.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1734671 Energy intake required to maintain body weight is not affected by wide variation in diet composition.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8968851 Weight-loss with low or high carbohydrate diet?
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15800559 Effect of high protein vs high carbohydrate intake on insulin sensitivity, body weight, hemoglobin A1c, and blood pressure in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus.

    A round up of most of these metabolic ward studies can be found here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15113737 Is a calorie a calorie?

    Carbs vs fats still no clear winner:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22258266 Effects of 4 weight-loss diets differing in fat, protein, and carbohydrate on fat mass, lean mass, visceral adipose tissue, and hepatic fat: results from the POUNDS LOST trial.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22562179 In type 2 diabetes, randomisation to advice to follow a low-carbohydrate diet transiently improves glycaemic control compared with advice to follow a low-fat diet producing a similar weight loss.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19246357 Comparison of weight-loss diets with different compositions of fat, protein, and carbohydrates.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8561057 Similar weight loss with low- or high-carbohydrate diets.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1734671 Energy intake required to maintain body weight is not affected by wide variation in diet composition.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10372237 Effect of energy restriction, weight loss, and diet composition on plasma lipids and glucose in patients with type 2 diabetes.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17023708 Effects of moderate variations in macronutrient composition on weight loss and reduction in cardiovascular disease risk in obese, insulin-resistant adults.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15351198 Atkins and other low-carbohydrate diets: hoax or an effective tool for weight loss?
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685046 Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20107198 Lack of suppression of circulating free fatty acids and hypercholesterolemia during weight loss on a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19720791 Low-fat versus low-carbohydrate weight reduction diets: effects on weight loss, insulin resistance, and cardiovascular risk: a randomized control trial.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15632335 Comparison of the Atkins, Ornish, Weight Watchers, and Zone diets for weight loss and heart disease risk reduction: a randomized trial.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19439458 Long-term effects of a very-low-carbohydrate weight loss diet compared with an isocaloric low-fat diet after 12 mo.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20679559 Weight and metabolic outcomes after 2 years on a low-carbohydrate versus low-fat diet: a randomized trial.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174 The effect of a plant-based low-carbohydrate ("Eco-Atkins") diet on body weight and blood lipid concentrations in hyperlipidemic subjects.

    Flipping it round; three studies showing no difference in weight gain when changing carb:fat ratios (ie carbs aren't making you fat):
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7598063 Fat and carbohydrate overfeeding in humans: different effects on energy storage.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10919929 Macronutrient disposal during controlled overfeeding with glucose, fructose, sucrose, or fat in lean and obese women.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11029975 Effects of isoenergetic overfeeding of either carbohydrate or fat in young men.

    As far as metabolic pathways go, dietary fat is stored as bodily fat when you're in a caloric excess. For carbs to be stored as fat (via denovo lipogenesis) your carb intake alone has to be a pretty high % of your TDEE:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981 De novo lipogenesis in humans: metabolic and regulatory aspects.

    A few additional takeaways from these studies:
    The first block suggests that higher levels of protein can convey a small metabolic advantage. Any other manipulation of macronutrient intake confers no metabolic advantage.
    A couple of studies found decreased energy expenditure in high fat diets:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3360561 Metabolic effects of isoenergetic nutrient exchange over 24 hours in relation to obesity in women.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8178980 Failure to increase lipid oxidation in response to increasing dietary fat content in formerly obese women.

    Similar weight gain but higher amount of fat gain in high fat diet:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7598063 Fat and carbohydrate overfeeding in humans: different effects on energy storage.

    Here' a bonus post about insulin which I've only come across recently and haven't looked at in depth, you might find it interesting though http://weightology.net/weightologywe...ad-reputation/

    So there you go. Keto is a gimmick which helps you eat less.

    It's great that it has helped you lose a ton of weight and what you've done is really impressive. However, cutting out carbs and the lifestyle disruption it leads to shouldn't be the first port of call in weight loss. I'll argue that point with absolutely anybody who suggests it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  18. #3858
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    Dem sources

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  19. #3859
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Dem sources

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    Copy pasta from a list I helped compile elsewhere to disprove the most irritating cult on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  20. #3860
    Ben Derindar's Avatar
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    I read through every single abstract in your list, and until the forum ate my fucking post, I had actually listed a breakdown of sample sizes and durations for each of them.

    In any case, I suggest you revise it for the next some some "cultist" like me irks you. Not only does that list include several duplicates, but most are sample sizes of 10-60 people which is ludicrously small. Many studies lasted anywhere from a few days up to a few weeks. It takes typically a few weeks for the human body just to adjust to ketosis, so you can only seriously consider studies running for several months. Then there's the definition of what is "low carb", and of the studies that specified their percentages, only a couple were <10% carbs; most were >25% which is nowhere near low enough to induce ketosis in people who are insulin resistant.

    I also couldn't find any declarations of who funded any of these studies, but that's OK, I'm sure there won't be any conflicts of interest at all, the food industry would never try anything like that.

    Try reducing that list to only studies involving >100 people, lasting >1 year, and where LC <= 10% and we might have enough meaningful data to look at.

    As to your final article, it did have some interesting points, but I counter with http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/d...-weigh-in/9458 which offers a variety of responses to your article.

    As you can see, the literature does not completely suggest I am wrong, nor does it completely suggest you are right. But only one of us is arguing that their way is the only way here. If you can lose weight by simply eating less, then great, good luck to you. But it doesn't work for everybody; the spiralling levels of obesity worldwide are more than ample proof of that.

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