Getting in shape/not caring fitness thread

[Xiang Jiao]

Xiang, this is a "getting in shape" thread, where we help eachother get in shape. Not a "I like eating whatever I want and it's pretty okay" thread. Some of us have goals, and are willing to put in the required time and effort to achieve them. Ralara asked for nutrition advice and mentioned he wanted to improve his physique, one could reasonably assume that he was willing to do some basic things such as count macros.

If you don't see the point, that's ok! Head on over to one of the recepie threads or something.

That's the level of snark I was looking for! I appreciate the input you guys (Cool09, TZer, Reed, and Tsubutai) are giving for those of us looking to better ourselves, I just question the value of eating X amount of calories every day, and it must be exactly X/X/X in this macronutrient ratio, especially for a lanky and out of shape guy like Ralara (no offense taken, I hope) who may struggle finding the motivation to changes his ways. The poor guy had to quit smoking already. He's the average Joe, not a professional boxer trying to get into the next weight class. I think it's much more important that he try to change his eating habits as in what he eats rather than agonize over how much he eats. Lay off the pizza takeout, chow mein and chips with salsa and go for universally healthier foods that he can make in the kitchen himself.

Today, my only meal so far was my spicy cayenne pork sausage (1 lbs) with spinach, tomatoes, vingrette dressing, aged cheddar cheese and olives heaped on top. I don't know how many macronutrients were in all the vegetable bullshit, but a pound of pork sausage had, according to the label, 96 grams of fat and 72 grams of protein. Other than that I've had some of my friend's homemade jerky to snack on (no nutrient information), and a few handfuls (servings) of sunflower seeds (15g fat, 5 carb, 6 protein per 30g serving). I'll probably go for the rest of the night (6-7 hours) without getting hungry again, and if I do, I'll snarf down a couple of hot dogs before I retire. I also had a can of coconut water (10g sugar) earlier to start the day. Unless someone asked me, I wouldn't normally record this information anywhere. I trust my body to know what to do with what I give it.

As far as what kind of workouts the thread recommends, I will gladly defer to your expertise since I haven't lifted seriously since I was in my early 20s (8-ish years ago). I don't even own weights right now. I'm a very active person since I do at least one of these activities on a weekly basis - running, hiking, biking, climbing/rappelling, skiing/snowboarding, bowling, frisbee or golfing. I also walk everywhere I need to go on a daily basis since I live in a city and my car sits unmoved for weeks on end. I'm 5' 10" and about 160 lbs down from almost 200 a year ago since changing my diet and cutting out beer and soda. Where should I go from here? I'm not really looking to bulk up since I already turn some heads as it is, but tone up a bit and get stronger, faster, and leaner a la Bruce Lee. I wouldn't mind ending up around 150 lbs soaking wet. Agility is a trait more important to me than raw strength.

[Tsubutai]

Apologies for cuttting your post up into different sections, Xiang, but there's a lot in there.

That's the level of snark I was looking for! I appreciate the input you guys (Cool09, TZer, Reed, and Tsubutai) are giving for those of us looking to better ourselves, I just question the value of eating X amount of calories every day, and it must be exactly X/X/X in this macronutrient ratio, especially for a lanky and out of shape guy like Ralara (no offense taken, I hope) who may struggle finding the motivation to changes his ways. The poor guy had to quit smoking already. He's the average Joe, not a professional boxer trying to get into the next weight class. I think it's much more important that he try to change his eating habits as in what he eats rather than agonize over how much he eats. Lay off the pizza takeout, chow mein and chips with salsa and go for universally healthier foods that he can make in the kitchen himself.

Eating healthier foods is certainly good, but the fact remains that the best way for him to fix his issues with his physique is going to involve gaining some weight, with most/all of that extra weight preferably being muscle mass. Second, no one's suggesting that he train like a professional boxer trying to make a higher weight - while the recommended objective is the same, the method and intensity are vastly different. People are suggesting that he should be lifting 3 times per week and probably eating more calories overall but getting them from more nutritionally-valuable sources, not training for several hours a day every day and drinking a crate of raw eggs each morning.

Today, my only meal so far was my spicy cayenne pork sausage (1 lbs) with spinach, tomatoes, vingrette dressing, aged cheddar cheese and olives heaped on top. I don't know how many macronutrients were in all the vegetable bullshit, but a pound of pork sausage had, according to the label, 96 grams of fat and 72 grams of protein. Other than that I've had some of my friend's homemade jerky to snack on (no nutrient information), and a few handfuls (servings) of sunflower seeds (15g fat, 5 carb, 6 protein per 30g serving). I'll probably go for the rest of the night (6-7 hours) without getting hungry again, and if I do, I'll snarf down a couple of hot dogs before I retire. I also had a can of coconut water (10g sugar) earlier to start the day. Unless someone asked me, I wouldn't normally record this information anywhere. I trust my body to know what to do with what I give it.

Most vegetables (with obvious exceptions such as avocados and similar) provide almost nothing in terms of macronutrients, so they're effectively freebies if you're counting macros; you can go hog-wild with carrots and lettuce or whatever. IIRC, lean jerky provides roughly 40g of protein and 400 kcal per 100g, making it quite a good snack food if you're looking to consume lots of protein. As for trusting your body to know what to do with what you give it, sure it does. If you give it too much, it'll dump the excess into fat cells, and if you give it too little, it'll start cannibalizing its own muscles! As others have pointed out, foods can vary hugely in their ability to make you feel satiated relative to their caloric content and overall nutritional value. Just eating what you feel like when you feel like may or may not work for you, but it's generally a pretty bad idea if you have any specific physical goals you're trying to achieve.

As far as what kind of workouts the thread recommends, I will gladly defer to your expertise since I haven't lifted seriously since I was in my early 20s (8-ish years ago). I don't even own weights right now. I'm a very active person since I do at least one of these activities on a weekly basis - running, hiking, biking, climbing/rappelling, skiing/snowboarding, bowling, frisbee or golfing. I also walk everywhere I need to go on a daily basis since I live in a city and my car sits unmoved for weeks on end. I'm 5' 10" and about 160 lbs down from almost 200 a year ago since changing my diet and cutting out beer and soda. Where should I go from here? I'm not really looking to bulk up since I already turn some heads as it is, but tone up a bit and get stronger, faster, and leaner a la Bruce Lee. I wouldn't mind ending up around 150 lbs soaking wet. Agility is a trait more important to me than raw strength.

First up, congrats on the weight loss! There are a few misconceptions in your last few sentences, though. There's no such thing as "tone", only muscle mass and body fat. People who are described as being toned have a moderate amount of muscle and low bodyfat. There are a number of ways you can end up looking like that, but the quickest and most effective is (surprise!) to do some weightlifting and pair it with a good diet and some HIIT or similar to cut bodyfat. Second, Bruce Lee did a lot of weight training - a book was published based on his notes and logs that details the stuff he did. Third, while "bulking up" is kind of ambiguous, if you mean that you wouldn't want to end up looking like a bodybuilder or powerlifter, don't worry - that will not happen unless you spend multiple years training specifically to look that way/get that strong. It takes serious and determined effort to get to a size most would consider bulky.

[lt]

Third, while "bulking up" is kind of ambiguous, if you mean that you wouldn't want to end up looking like a bodybuilder or powerlifter, don't worry - that will not happen unless you spend multiple years training specifically to look that way/get that strong. It takes serious and determined effort to get to a size most would consider bulky.

This actually a very common myth, people think that they'll end up looking like Arnold within one or two years while going casually to the gym 3 times a week.

[Tsubutai]

Going to post my lifting progress to date and my goals for the next three months because fuck it, why not? I'm hoping to maintain linear gains for most/all of this period. All current weights and goals refer to 3x5 sets except for the deadlift, where they refer to single 1x5 sets.

Deadlift: started at the end of may at 80 kg, now at 155 kg. Trying 160 kg today, aiming for well over 200 kg by the end of October, when I turn 30.
Squat: started at the end of June at 100 kg, now at 130 kg and will be attempting 135 today. Aiming to be over 200 kg by October.
Bench press: started at 50 kg on the dumbbell press at the end of may, now at 88 kg for sets. Aiming for 120 kg.
Overhead press (my weakness, and the exercise at which I piss around the most): started at 35 kg with dumbbells at the end of may, now at 50 kg (which is piss-weak; must do better). Aiming for 80 kg+.
Barbell row: started at 40 kg at the end of may. Now at 72 kg, aiming for 110 kg.

Also looking to continue slowly losing weight, although I'm reasonably happy to stay where I am as long as I continue putting on muscle mass (as indicated by the lifts going up...).

[TZeer]

Going to post my lifting progress to date and my goals for the next three months because fuck it, why not? I'm hoping to maintain linear gains for most/all of this period. All current weights and goals refer to 3x5 sets except for the deadlift, where they refer to single 1x5 sets.

Deadlift: started at the end of may at 80 kg, now at 155 kg. Trying 160 kg today, aiming for well over 200 kg by the end of October, when I turn 30.
Squat: started at the end of June at 100 kg, now at 130 kg and will be attempting 135 today. Aiming to be over 200 kg by October.
Bench press: started at 50 kg on the dumbbell press at the end of may, now at 88 kg for sets. Aiming for 120 kg.
Overhead press (my weakness, and the exercise at which I piss around the most): started at 35 kg with dumbbells at the end of may, now at 50 kg (which is piss-weak; must do better). Aiming for 80 kg+.
Barbell row: started at 40 kg at the end of may. Now at 72 kg, aiming for 110 kg.

Also looking to continue slowly losing weight, although I'm reasonably happy to stay where I am as long as I continue putting on muscle mass (as indicated by the lifts going up...).

Nice gains!

But have to ask. How much do you weigh? And how tall are you?

When you say 50kg in dumbbells, is that combined or 50kg in each hand? I suspect the first, but have to ask. Are you still doing dumbbells for chest?

Some of the aims you are reaching for seems a little optimistic unless your already a big guy/potential/naturally strong.

Good luck!

[Tsubutai]

I'm about 173 cm tall (shortarses, represent!) and kind of stocky. Unfortunately, I'm also too heavy for my own good atm - on the wrong side of 100 kg.

My goals are based on what Rippetoe wrote in Starting Strength and elsewhere for an overweight guy who's eating properly - in the pdf Reed linked, he says "If you’re 3 months into the program at 30% bodyfat, your waistline has not gone down 4 inches and your squat is not up 175 pounds (80 kg), you're not doing it right."

50 kg DB press was 25 kg in each hand. I started out with dumbbells because I didn't have a rack for the first month, but have since switched to barbell bench because it's easier to increase the weight in small amounts from session to session with the bar. I actually prefer the dumbbell version (I find that it hits the chest a lot harder), but it's a bit impractical at higher weights unless you're in a position to get a very large and expensive set of fixed weight DBs, imo.

Anyway, just finished the 135 kg squats, bench and deadlift to come. Home weight room with laptop = best weight room.

[Airow]

so I've started to work out ~4 months ago but had to take a month long brake in June because of exams. Obviously had to start with lighter weights again but now I'm back on the track and am now doing 3 sets with 12-15reps 3 times a week. Won't list all the exercises but they are mostly (I guess) basic stuff on machines. I also added 1hour of cycling on these hometrainer things after strengh training. (Jesus man I usually sweat like crazy and my shirt is soaked...)

I'm doing some steady progress and actually looking forward for my workouts only if I made some faster progress on my upper body but I guess this needs time and my mindset is set for some goal in two years so I'm not really disappointed or anything.

Two weeks ago I also changed my diet a bit: no more sweets or sodas (except cola zero and red bull sugarfree from time to time) and I started to log my meals so that I could see how many kcal I'm eating. I also started to eat 3 "diet" meals per week which consist of salad and chicken but other than that I still eat 1 or 2 pizzas per week etc. because fuck it, starving is not for me... had a few strong cravings for chocolate but I simply drink water now whener I feel this urge and I'm able to deal with it far better than I thought. But all in all it turns out that I only eat ~1000-1500 kcal with my normal meals (I only eat lunch and dinner, no breakfast) per day and I didn't change my meals in any way! As a result of this I went from 85kg to 81kg in two weeks. Not really sure if this is some real weight loss :-^ would be nice if it was actually (partially) fat because it's about time to lose my little beer belly and love handles. I'll see how things progress and maybe consult a nutrition expert at my uni. I'm fairly sure I should eat more vegetables and fruits :-/

[TZeer]

I'm about 173 cm tall (shortarses, represent!) and kind of stocky. Unfortunately, I'm also too heavy for my own good atm - on the wrong side of 100 kg.

My goals are based on what Rippetoe wrote in Starting Strength and elsewhere for an overweight guy who's eating properly - in the pdf Reed linked, he says "If you’re 3 months into the program at 30% bodyfat, your waistline has not gone down 4 inches and your squat is not up 175 pounds (80 kg), you're not doing it right."

50 kg DB press was 25 kg in each hand. I started out with dumbbells because I didn't have a rack for the first month, but have since switched to barbell bench because it's easier to increase the weight in small amounts from session to session with the bar. I actually prefer the dumbbell version (I find that it hits the chest a lot harder), but it's a bit impractical at higher weights unless you're in a position to get a very large and expensive set of fixed weight DBs, imo.

Anyway, just finished the 135 kg squats, bench and deadlift to come. Home weight room with laptop = best weight room.

Representing!!! (175cm)

Skimmed through it. Will read it properly when I have some better time. Looks good. Vastly different approach then what I have been doing the last months.

If you are able to go all the way to well above 200kg, mad props! But from experience doing something similar a while ago(finding my 10 rep max, and using that as reference, starting at 60% of 10RM I think it was, and adding 5% for each time, and changing rep/sets etc) you will have an insane gain in the beginning. You will feel the sky is the limit..... then you will suddenly feel you hit the wall. Adding those extra 2,5kg will feel like 10kg. But I guess that's why he calls it's a beginner guide. It's impossible to gain forever and at that rate.

Looking at your stats you seem to have lot more strength in your lower body then your upper body. Be careful with that so you don't suddenly start "cheating/compensating" with lower-body in the techniques where you are training your upper-body.

You using waist-belt and/or wristbands? Can highly recommend the wristbands for the heavy lifts. I don't use them on the lighter ones, but it's sweet as hell for the heavy ones, focus on the lift and getting the right instead of feeling the bar slipping out of you hands. Waist-belts I cant say anything on. Never used them, as I like to focus on the technique and get that 100% before I start lifting heavy. This way I know my stability/core is worked at the same pace/progress as the rest.

I don't know how experienced you are, but I cant stress enough on the techniques. Get them right!! It will make day and night when it comes to the progress/feel/intensity in the training. Minor adjustments can make some exercises go from "I'm da boss!! Fuck yeah! Easy mode" to "Burning sensation, fuck my life right now, heavy shit!"

Looking forward to see your progress!!

[cullnean]

6 mile tab tommorow 36pound in my patrol sack ready to go, build up is going well

[Diicc Tater]

there are 2 reasons I don't bulk and cut.

1: even keeping at a slight deficit, you gain muscle if you have stored energy.
2: like I have character enough to cut after bulk lol mental efforts

[TZeer]

Interview with the guy who made my 12 week program.

Good read: http://www.predatornutrition.com/An-...erli-aka-Blade

[sarabando]

i got my program today involves kettle-bells, rowing, and something developed by the seals (in partnership with satan im sure) and other shit looks good and left me fucking wankered after an hour. studly and buff here i come XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Reed Tiburon]

I just question the value of eating X amount of calories every day, and it must be exactly X/X/X in this macronutrient ratio, especially for a lanky and out of shape guy like Ralara (no offense taken, I hope) who may struggle finding the motivation to changes his ways. The poor guy had to quit smoking already. He's the average Joe, not a professional boxer trying to get into the next weight class. I think it's much more important that he try to change his eating habits as in what he eats rather than agonize over how much he eats. Lay off the pizza takeout, chow mein and chips with salsa and go for universally healthier foods that he can make in the kitchen himself.

It's much easier to start with the facts and adjust from there, than to learn the wrong shit and then have to unlearn it. I.e. certain foods are "good" and certain foods are "bad". Sounds right, actually not so true (see "If it fits your macros, eat it").

I'm not really looking to bulk up since I already turn some heads as it is, but tone up a bit and get stronger, faster, and leaner a la Bruce Lee.

:snark:
1. Man I hate it when I wake up and look like Arnold. Shit sucks. (ain't that easy, and if you're worried about getting "too big" you will never get big period)
2. I want you to take your dictionary, tear out the page with the word "tone" on it, and throw it on a goddamn bonfire. tone is a meaningless buzzword used to sell abshits to middle aged women. never ever use it.

Since you are undefined as far as your goal, you either want to add muscle or you can lose fat. "Tone", "firm", "sculpt", whatever bullshit buzzword you can think of translates into one of those two things. bruce lee was crazy lean so it sounds like you want the latter. so cut. then when you have a six pack but you feel small in all your clothing, you can bulk.

People are suggesting that he should be lifting 3 times per week and probably eating more calories overall but getting them from more nutritionally-valuable sources, not training for several hours a day every day and drinking a crate of raw eggs each morning.

protip: the protein in raw eggs has only half the bioavailability of cooked eggs. cook your eggs

I'm about 173 cm tall (shortarses, represent!) and kind of stocky. Unfortunately, I'm also too heavy for my own good atm - on the wrong side of 100 kg.

kg;dr

5'8", 225+? fuck m8. you're fat to the point that losing 60-80 lbs would be the best thing you could do for your health.

if I was you I would not listen to Rippetoe on nutrition for a good 6-8 months. Get on a 500-1000 calorie deficit until you are quite lean (12%) and THEN start with a reasonable caloric surplus. lift throughout, expect gains to stall quickly though. you're basically maintaining your current muscle mass so you lose only fat.
check this out:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...n-changes.html

You using waist-belt and/or wristbands? Can highly recommend the wristbands for the heavy lifts. I don't use them on the lighter ones, but it's sweet as hell for the heavy ones, focus on the lift and getting the right instead of feeling the bar slipping out of you hands. Waist-belts I cant say anything on. Never used them, as I like to focus on the technique and get that 100% before I start lifting heavy. This way I know my stability/core is worked at the same pace/progress as the rest.

straps for deadlifting you mean? fuck that, you will not develop your grip strength to the same degree. Use chalk, and mixed grip or hook grip.
(straps for high volume snatch/cleans are obviously legit to avoid grip fatigue)

belts are legit, they actually allow your abs to work harder, making them stronger than without belt. see:
http://70sbig.com/blog/2010/04/more-...earing-a-belt/

there are 2 reasons I don't bulk and cut.

1: even keeping at a slight deficit, you gain muscle if you have stored energy.
2: like I have character enough to cut after bulk lol mental efforts

not fat just bulking

[Reed Tiburon]

in awesome news there is an Olympic weightlifting gym near my house so I might have an actual coach in the near future

[TZeer]

straps for deadlifting you mean? fuck that, you will not develop your grip strength to the same degree. Use chalk, and mixed grip or hook grip.
(straps for high volume snatch/cleans are obviously legit to avoid grip fatigue)

belts are legit, they actually allow your abs to work harder, making them stronger than without belt. see:

Hmm, chalk it is then. Long time ago I started using gloves, cause the inside of my palms was all fucked up. And since then it's just been a habit. Guess it's time to break that habit
I have used the mixed grip, but after I started using straps I've kinda been meh about out it.

Anyway, thanks for the tip!

[cullnean]

did the second 6 miler this weekend took 1 hour 30. calfs are tight as fuck, but in a good way, will up the distance for the next walk (not in any way a "walk")

[Tsubutai]

if I was you I would not listen to Rippetoe on nutrition for a good 6-8 months. Get on a 500-1000 calorie deficit until you are quite lean (12%) and THEN start with a reasonable caloric surplus. lift throughout, expect gains to stall quickly though. you're basically maintaining your current muscle mass so you lose only fat.
check this out:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...n-changes.html

Obviously I need to shift some fat, but I don't see how a method that would do that by yielding negligible strength gains (and in all probability, significant muscle loss) would be better than one that is currently yielding slow bodyweight reduction along with substantial strength gains. Right now, I've lost a few kg and have increased my big lifts by 20-80 kg, which implies a fairly big gain in muscle mass (along with improvements in technique and efficiency/neuromuscular activation, etc.). Since I've gained muscle while losing weight, it stands to reason that every kg of muscle gained must effectively have replaced a kg of fat that's been burned off, since I'm pretty sure I've not been losing internal organs/connective tissue/blood.

Also, I don't really think that guy's advice is terribly useful or relevant for my situation. He starts by saying "getting lean first [won't] magically let you pack on the LBM without fat gain" but then goes on to list reasons you should do it anyway. His first of these reasons? "If you want to compete in a bodybuilding contest, you need to be sufficiently lean to start with." Uh.... yeah. Amazingly, I'm not actually planning on competing in a bodybuilding contest in the near future! Second, as I said, my overall bodymass is decreasing atm, so his statement that "if you start a mass gaining phase at too high of a body fat percentage (say 12-15%), you’re going to gain some fat" is clearly inapplicable.

[Reed Tiburon]

if I was you I would not listen to Rippetoe on nutrition for a good 6-8 months. Get on a 500-1000 calorie deficit until you are quite lean (12%) and THEN start with a reasonable caloric surplus. lift throughout, expect gains to stall quickly though. you're basically maintaining your current muscle mass so you lose only fat.
check this out:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...n-changes.html

Obviously I need to shift some fat, but I don't see how a method that would do that by yielding negligible strength gains (and in all probability, significant muscle loss) would be better than one that is currently yielding slow bodyweight reduction along with substantial strength gains. Right now, I've lost a few kg and have increased my big lifts by 20-80 kg, which implies a fairly big gain in muscle mass (along with improvements in technique and efficiency/neuromuscular activation, etc.). Since I've gained muscle while losing weight, it stands to reason that every kg of muscle gained must effectively have replaced a kg of fat that's been burned off, since I'm pretty sure I've not been losing internal organs/connective tissue/blood.

Also, I don't really think that guy's advice is terribly useful or relevant for my situation. He starts by saying "getting lean first [won't] magically let you pack on the LBM without fat gain" but then goes on to list reasons you should do it anyway. His first of these reasons? "If you want to compete in a bodybuilding contest, you need to be sufficiently lean to start with." Uh.... yeah. Amazingly, I'm not actually planning on competing in a bodybuilding contest in the near future! Second, as I said, my overall bodymass is decreasing atm, so his statement that "if you start a mass gaining phase at too high of a body fat percentage (say 12-15%), you’re going to gain some fat" is clearly inapplicable.

No such thing as "shifting fat". You know you are way too heavy, so if I were you I would make that priority #1, with strength being #2. Being lean confers significant hormonal advantages for muscle building. Up to you I guess

[Cool09]

Re: gloves and straps

Lifting without gloves might give you some callouses on your hands, not "fuck up" your palms. Nothing wrong with that. The thickness of gloves will add a couple mm to your grip, weakening it. So by using gloves, you might need straps.

I've decided not to use either, though my deadlift is only approaching 3 plates so I'm not exactly advanced yet :P

[Lex Fasces]

So today was first day of fanboi bane workout:

First Workout

Incline Dumbbell Press - 3x12 -15kg each hand

Bent Over Rows - 3x10 - 30k

Standing Shoulder Press - 3x12 - 10kg each hand

Dumbbell Snatch - 3x12 - 10kg

Romanian Dead Lift - 3x12 - 30kg

Squat - 3x10 - 30kg


next time we will aim for 3x8 on most exercises but use a much heavier weight. (this was really only a tester anyway).




first time doing most of those exercises. the snatches were knackering but not too bad and my god the deadlift and squats were AMAZING. easy to do as we only did a low weight to get used to the movements but feels so damn good.