Sounds like a lot of hard work to be honest, but then I'm lazy. It's not like it's just infiltrating the corp, you've got to get roles too. Now.. if we're talking about bumping ships out of the shield I'm all in!
Sounds like a lot of hard work to be honest, but then I'm lazy. It's not like it's just infiltrating the corp, you've got to get roles too. Now.. if we're talking about bumping ships out of the shield I'm all in!
The reason for weakened POSes, or, ideally, a new small-gang target in W-space is not because we actually want to kill people's structures or take their stuff (although the latter is a fine goal, I don't think it's the topic of this conversation). The real goal is to promote ship-on-ship violence, to create an objective that's worth having, worth attacking, and worth defending. POSes are just convenient because they already exist, but a new objective could be made as well.
I'm thinking of something like an anchorable gas mining array with no reinforcement timer and something like 5mil HP (5-man gang can kill it in 30 minutes). With short anchor/unanchor timers so that you can deploy it in a ladar site when your play session starts, move it when the site goes dry, and pack it back up again at the end of the night. The presence of the gas mining array on dscan says "someone is around," so it acts as a lightning rod for traffic. Carebears will profit from it, risk-averse carebears will lose it, and pvpers will grief it for fights or just loot it if they can't get one.
And no, POCOs don't really work like this in w-space. The fact that it has a RF timer at all means it's not a small gang target, and because you have to leave it anchored 24/7, it wouldn't be appropriate to not have an RF timer.
Last edited by Wrack; May 2 2012 at 07:42:46 PM.
Skill training online: Daesis Wrack
Everything else: Cosmic Osmo
Oic. That does indeed sound like it could use a mechanic adjustment. Like 2000km "range" and frigs that kept a bit of transversal on approach.Originally Posted by corbex
But I still don't see the issue with it. Plus if their dreads have long range fits they're sitting ducks when you do catch them.
Well yeah I've seen people use range setups before, but never been convinced it's actually faster. Safer, sure, but safety is overrated
Looolllllll, sure there is. Plenty of them, and now that logoffski doesn't work anymore it's not even hard. I fitted up a large smartbomb + burst ECM cloaky proteus for the sole purpose of aggressing logoffski farmers before they could do their logoffski, but I went on break from Eve before I got to use it. Now I don't need it anymore, just get points on them before they warp out.there is no actual ingame method of catching them.
And you can.
What you want and what some here are asking for is to do it without effort. You won't admit to that of course, but that's how it is.
Last edited by Qui Shon; May 2 2012 at 11:34:39 PM.
WoT: Mike_Hammer
Tanks are like Pokemon, gotta collect 'em all.....
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
As someone who has been living with my alts in C3-4s just for farming and occassional fun I think one of the major reasons people don't engage random dudes turning up in their wh is simply one of assymetrical information. The aggressor normally has a pretty good idea what he is facing, number of active pilots, ships in space etc. The hometeam however has virtually no clue how much firepower they face until they intiate the fight. The couple of times i've sprung the trap to see what was coming it created lossmails with 10 hostiles on a single BC. Otoh the hometeam has the FF. Its a pretty easy choice really unless you are really really confident or have a very good idea what the other side can field. The kills we scored were pretty much mirroring that as well, mainly catching bears or collapsing ships.
Given that most BRs here start with: "we opened the hole and found XY running sites" that seems to be an experience pretty prevalent in W-Space. And frankly speaking, its not so much different in K-space either: either you manage to force a fight or hostiles tend to blueball. And tbh, there is no silver bullet solving that problem that people are generally playing it safe rather than go out and try it. Simply cause quite often not going out balls deep is rationally the right call. Even though it might be less fun.
As for Pos removal ops in w-space: people put some effort into creating their sandcastle, if you want to kick it over it should be some effort for you to do so. Even if structure shooting really sucks.
bro, I would suggest you go back and reread my post and the post i was responding to, as they're only tangentially related to this issue of POSs that everyone else is going on about. I'm actually pretty happy with the mechanics as they stand right now, apart from maybe in c1s. v0vAnd you can.
What you want and what some here are asking for is to do it without effort. You won't admit to that of course, but that's how it is.
Okay I did and here's what I still see:bro, I would suggest you go back and reread my post and the post i was responding to, as they're only tangentially related to this issue of POSs that everyone else is going on about. I'm actually pretty happy with the mechanics as they stand right now, apart from maybe in c1s. v0vAnd you can.
What you want and what some here are asking for is to do it without effort. You won't admit to that of course, but that's how it is.
Artjay: Contribute or get out is a bs statement.
Amopliros: I should be able to kill anyone I want. What we mean by the "contribute" statement is we don't evict people that actually fight us.
Now the first part of your response I've gone over and apparently it turns out we agree there. Granted I've been away for over a year and may not have all the recent details, but the second statement is obviously not true, as seen in the middle part of Clarion Call 3 video.
WoT: Mike_Hammer
Tanks are like Pokemon, gotta collect 'em all.....
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
Troll bait at this point......Okay I did and here's what I still see:bro, I would suggest you go back and reread my post and the post i was responding to, as they're only tangentially related to this issue of POSs that everyone else is going on about. I'm actually pretty happy with the mechanics as they stand right now, apart from maybe in c1s. v0vAnd you can.
What you want and what some here are asking for is to do it without effort. You won't admit to that of course, but that's how it is.
Artjay: Contribute or get out is a bs statement.
Amopliros: I should be able to kill anyone I want. What we mean by the "contribute" statement is we don't evict people that actually fight us.
Now the first part of your response I've gone over and apparently it turns out we agree there. Granted I've been away for over a year and may not have all the recent details, but the second statement is obviously not true, as seen in the middle part of Clarion Call 3 video.
oh and as for your loooool my cloaky T3 win.. pro:tip you don't need to siege dreads to get BS lvl damage from them. get enough and you will burn through sites in no time.
Seen nomad corps do this already.
In any case hope a mod comes and deletes the last 4 pages including my stupidly replying to you guys soon
I think ppl are missing our (aharm, narwhals, etc etc) point here.
We DON'T want to kick over anyone's sandcastle. Wh space is the best isk in game, meaning if u've been in wh space for a while, you should easily have the isk to invest in a fleet for fighting. You can't tell us that you can't fly said ships when we see you with dreads/carriers running sleeper sites.
Giving us a fight (whether we win or lose) encourages us to NOT want to kick over your sandcastle, and even come help defend it when outside parties like AAA come and try to ruin the fun. All we want is for some of that isk you're whoring to be "reinvested" into making wspace a fun place to be in, is that too much to ask?
Lol, what kind of putz would farm sleepers with 1/8th the available dps
And if they do then let them, they'd make more money on nerfed hisec incursions probably.
In any case you can still catch and point them in site, sieged or not. It's just not as piss easy to catch them as you want it to be.
WoT: Mike_Hammer
Tanks are like Pokemon, gotta collect 'em all.....
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
Lol, what kind of putz would farm sleepers with 1/8th the available dps
And if they do then let them, they'd make more money on nerfed hisec incursions probably.
In any case you can still catch and point them in site, sieged or not. It's just not as piss easy to catch them as you want it to be.
Think your reading comprehension might need a look at tbh It's not as "I want it to be"
I frankly don't give a shit, my point is that if people really want to not get caught. you can always do this in EvE. Or at the very least make it so rare that you will always keep on making isk.
In any case this discussion is booring the shit out of me. Been asking for an end to it for 3 pages now.
welcome back....
Last edited by Sandslinger; May 3 2012 at 08:16:20 AM. Reason: clarity
I know you probably weren't intending it to be as such but your latter point has serious slavery overtones. "We'll permit you to exist so long as you keep servicing us".
The grander point of "fun place to be in" is that it's obviously only fun from your perspective. Getting your shit pushed in by a force that is insurmountable in either raw numbers or ability/experience is not fun for people who just want to run sites. I get that some peoples attitude is basically that fights are the price of being in wormhole space, and I agree - I don't feel bad about ganking someone who wasn't paying sufficient attention to dscan/wormholes, but I don't think you can extrapolate that to a mentality whereby you feel you ganking them and permitting them to keep living in a wormhole is akin to a symbiotic relationship. It isn't, it's a master/slave relationship really.
I guess that's just the food chain though, not making any criticism of any individual or entity specifically.
ps. This conversation ought to be split off somewhere else.
When you say "there is no actual ingame method of catching them" when there not only obviously exists methods, it's a hell of a lot EASIER now then it used to be, then that does imply you want it to be piss easy. Hell, not just logoffski nerf, but also corp bm's which are a lazy gankers dream, and a probing interface so easy that even the worst moron with shitty skills can get hits in no time at all.
Oh and I don't need the T3 now, it's back in Jita. I needed it when logoffski was possible. Now I can just use a fricken Helios to pin two dreads, if they are "leashing" sleepers without support.
Thanks, I hope to find a good corp soon and take up the "good fights", I mean traps, baits and ganks.welcome back....
Also I might be imagining things but it seems a mod is already hard at work deleting my poasts on the last page so you might get your wish of having this interesting and illuminating discussion ()wiped out.
WoT: Mike_Hammer
Tanks are like Pokemon, gotta collect 'em all.....
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
No it doesn't imply that, YOU are implying that's what I mean.... I was pointing it as a observation I have made of Eve in general.When you say "there is no actual ingame method of catching them" when there not only obviously exists methods, it's a hell of a lot EASIER now then it used to be, then that does imply you want it to be piss easy.
Had you read/understood why i pointed it out you would have understood that I was trying to get people to stop arguing bout this useless crap last 4 pages seeing as carebears will be carebears wether they are nomads ot stationary. at least the stationary ones has POS that one can kill. the nomads can if done right be nigh uncatchable/unkillable by anything but people with shitloads of preparation work.
This is EvE tbh it's the only way it can be without nerfing everyone but the blob.
Assigning feelings/meanings/agendas onto other people's observations is a extremely bad habit by the way, and tends to be detrimental to having a proper debate on anything..
Seeing as I have gone full retard in this thread as well I can only pray for a Mod to help me clean my act up...
Last edited by Sandslinger; May 3 2012 at 09:35:46 AM. Reason: clarity
Yes it does. And in this post you prove it by finally amending your position from "impossible" to "shitloads of preparation work" which is entirely different. It is characterizing this "shitloads of work" as "impossible" which means that you did indeed imply you want no effort ganks, even if you didn't understand it yourself. Your standard of reasonable ::effort:: is so low, that to some of us it's equatable to "no effort".No it doesn't imply that,When you say "there is no actual ingame method of catching them" when there not only obviously exists methods, it's a hell of a lot EASIER now then it used to be, then that does imply you want it to be piss easy.
WoT: Mike_Hammer
Tanks are like Pokemon, gotta collect 'em all.....
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
Yes it does. And in this post you prove it by finally amending your position from "impossible" to "shitloads of preparation work" which is entirely different. It is characterizing this "shitloads of work" as "impossible" which means that you did indeed imply you want no effort ganks, even if you didn't understand it yourself. Your standard of reasonable ::effort:: is so low, that to some of us it's equatable to "no effort".No it doesn't imply that,When you say "there is no actual ingame method of catching them" when there not only obviously exists methods, it's a hell of a lot EASIER now then it used to be, then that does imply you want it to be piss easy.
Thanks !
I was afraid I was going full retard alone, but you just ran past me at lightning speed.
(I would explain once again here how I was not asking for any change whatsoever only highlighting an example of a alternative with the hope of having the effect of stopping people arguing about something that WILL NOT ever change i'e carebears being able to carebear.
I would perhaps also explain that I didn't shift my position whatsoever, but your reading comprehension seems to be hard to get around you seem to read half my sentences and then go sperg so it's probably pointless in any case)
But I think if you retorted with the same retardation/utter failure to see my position yet again I would lose yet a little sliver of my last hope in FHC.
Last edited by Sandslinger; May 3 2012 at 11:04:26 AM. Reason: clarity
No problem, it's what I do best
But it's not my fault if you can't keep track of what you've said or if you can't say what you mean.
It is indeed pointless to argue with you, as you don't stand behind your words.
WoT: Mike_Hammer
Tanks are like Pokemon, gotta collect 'em all.....
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
I hate to interrupt your stimulating discussion but Durzel's corp has suffered a small theft. Damien Smith and I managed to make off with about 60-80b in ships and loot last night. What we couldnt carry, we did this:
http://bl3h-united.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=235129
http://bl3h-united.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=235130
http://bl3h-united.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=235137
http://bl3h-united.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=235137
Sorry guys. Go ahead and continue your discussion...
But if you could fly 1 rev, why not strip the faction mods off of the other one first?
lol
Yeah that was interesting to wake up to this morning, not gonna lie. It was well planned though, hats off to Damo.
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