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Thread: Lol Security Space

  1. #3081
    John Selth's Avatar
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    Sunday night fight in Tama (Almost losing a moros)

    As Andjres L put it in his last BR "more dread welps on scan". Knock on wood right?

    Anyway, after fucking around on eve for a bit, dropping some Casof in carriers I log off for a few hours to go chill RL. I log in again to hear that the HORN crew is out in Tama baiting some dudes on station in SFIs. A few Battleships and AHACs are aggressing so I make the suggestion to drop my Moros siege and headshot the some aggressors. Bodil lights his cyno cane on station and I jump through. I load grid and bam, insta bumped 60 km off station. Crow suddenly comes out of nowhere, points me with more hostiles burning off station towards my still drifting dread. The battleships had burned in to orbit under my guns and Nados and Ishtars are sitting at range. A good old fashion free for all brawl occurs around my Moros with tons of neutral parties whoring on me then going to shoot at one another with the HORN SFI/t1 logi fleet caught in the middle. I whored on everything I could even. At one point I sieged and managed to blap a few cruisers. 40 minutes of solid fighting later, Plain123 logs in and we cyno his Thanatos next to my Moros, I refit for stabs and extract coming back in my archon to help get Plain (who is now tackled) out. All in all was a fun fight and I left with my Moros in half armor.

    HORN KB http://kb.ninja-unicorns.com/?a=kill...d&kll_id=37549

  2. #3082

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    Odd that it is not spoken about here yet... There is lots of rage about Shadow Cartel popping Dead Terrorists' Titan ( http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20668647 )

    Got to admit the way they did it can't possibly be expected game mechanics (and possibly an unfortunate side effect of the warp speed changes).

    Word on the street is that they probbed it and landed on it before it entered warp from logging in (he logged out at a POS) and kept him from entering warp with bumping while they melted him with overwhelming DPS.

    Basically what he did wrong was logging his super with a neutral in local... Which led to some comments of the kind "an exploit so obvious even PL wouldn't dare use it, DT will get their titan back"

  3. #3083

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Sivaris View Post
    Odd that it is not spoken about here yet... There is lots of rage about Shadow Cartel popping Dead Terrorists' Titan ( http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20668647 )

    Got to admit the way they did it can't possibly be expected game mechanics (and possibly an unfortunate side effect of the warp speed changes).

    Word on the street is that they probbed it and landed on it before it entered warp from logging in (he logged out at a POS) and kept him from entering warp with bumping while they melted him with overwhelming DPS.

    Basically what he did wrong was logging his super with a neutral in local... Which led to some comments of the kind "an exploit so obvious even PL wouldn't dare use it, DT will get their titan back"
    Bummed I missed that one (effin puppy taking up all my EVE time atm). Those tears, they are amazing. Well done lads, well done.

  4. #3084

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    We tested this extensively for about a week before trying this.

    We’d tried before but it was harder to do pre patch – not undoable but they would need to be v slow to warp.

    With alignment mods like mwd or istabs you can still get off grid before anyone turns up.

    CCP posted this thread and basically patched the game to make bubbles work as stopping ewarp “like directed tackle already does” –unfortunately in the case of hic points directed tackle doesn’t actually work so in lowsec you can’t do this vs supers unless you bump them. This was presumably overlooked by CCP – surely if they intended bubbles to work they intended focused points to work as they are the same principle of warp interdiction

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...76#post1335076

    A side effect of this is as the game doesn’t cancel their ewarp when the hic points go on, the player can’t cancel warp and I guess light a cyno or whatever. – Obviously in this case it would make no difference as he melted but it’s a reasonable point – however considering CCP patched the game to make bubbles work –surely it’s their intention that killing people at login is a viable tactic and the only thing we did wrong was not do it in null – which seems unreasonable – it also seems unreasonable that CCP would not allow bumping as a valid tactic in this context – and force you to use a bubble.

    To reiterate – if we’d have done this in null with a bubble- this would not even be considered as dodgy, - why should supers be safer in lowsec?

    Conversely – say you surrounded a pos with loads of smartbombers and lit them as the guy landed – he can’t cancel warp still, would die (if you had enough lol) – would this also be an exploit? What if we didn’t bump him at all but just bridged 1000 tornados and alpha’d him before he could warp – would this be an exploit?

    IMO this can be sorted in a few ways (in order of preference):

    Make it so being focused pointed drops you out of ewarp – this would mean the mechanic is still valid and holds with CCP’s mantra of you are vulnerable while in space.

    Make it so you can’t take damage in ewarp.

    Make it so you can’t be interacted with (bumped/shot whatever) on login.

    The last 2 would mean rolling back the changes that CCP put in for bubbles to affect ewarp –presumably they don’t want to do this so IMO the only answer is the first one as that gives consistency across the tackle methods.

    Of course then the issue remains you could still just bump them and they wouldn’t be able to warp and you don’t even need to drop them out of warp with a point – to fix that you would have to make ewarp manually cancellable – which might have balance issues.

    Or you know – people could fit their titans properly, scout local, look for probes, etc etc

    TLDR – don’t feel it’s an exploit due to masterplans post/previous patch changes, Rubicon just made it easier to do. Has always been legal in null. Only issue is inability to cancel ewarp. Hopefully CCP clarify.
    Last edited by W0wbagger; November 30 2013 at 02:33:10 PM.

  5. #3085
    Ingame: Mari Eltera Jalif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Sivaris View Post
    Odd that it is not spoken about here yet... There is lots of rage about Shadow Cartel popping Dead Terrorists' Titan ( http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20668647 )

    Got to admit the way they did it can't possibly be expected game mechanics (and possibly an unfortunate side effect of the warp speed changes).

    Word on the street is that they probbed it and landed on it before it entered warp from logging in (he logged out at a POS) and kept him from entering warp with bumping while they melted him with overwhelming DPS.

    Basically what he did wrong was logging his super with a neutral in local... Which led to some comments of the kind "an exploit so obvious even PL wouldn't dare use it, DT will get their titan back"
    Will see, I'm intrested to see what will happen.

  6. #3086
    Hunlight's Avatar
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    The thing with it is logging off in space compared to a pos.

    Just because they can't make it so you reappear in the pos after logging off in one, you have to warp in to it, thus making you vulnerable when you have logged off safely inside a pos.

    Plus the whole ewarp thing of not having any control of your ship.

  7. #3087

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    Pretty sure you ewarp if you log in in space regardless of whether you logged in a pos or normal space

  8. #3088

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    It's a bit much if you have to nano and nomad a titan just to log in. I want to keep my cargo expanders and crystal implants plz
    psycho freak > BBC fleet


  9. #3089
    Ingame: Mari Eltera Jalif's Avatar
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    Just tells me that players are always smarter then CCP , whether we agreed upon the tactic or not or if it is legit.

  10. #3090
    Hunlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0wbagger View Post
    Pretty sure you ewarp if you log in in space regardless of whether you logged in a pos or normal space
    Yeh you do all I'm saying is that you log off in the relative safety of your pos, but you don't just reappear in it because they can't code it in I remember reading many moons ago. Which to me you should but alas that is not how it is.

  11. #3091

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    Well if it's legit then we can p much guarantee more titans on eve kill in the near future
    psycho freak > BBC fleet


  12. #3092
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    lol that's the most obvious exploit I've seen in a while.

    I'll eat my own hat if CCP says this is legit.

  13. #3093

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    lol that's the most obvious exploit I've seen in a while.

    I'll eat my own hat if CCP says this is legit.
    psycho freak > BBC fleet


  14. #3094
    Bocephus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0wbagger View Post
    We tested this extensively for about a week before trying this.

    We’d tried before but it was harder to do pre patch – not undoable but they would need to be v slow to warp.

    With alignment mods like mwd or istabs you can still get off grid before anyone turns up.

    CCP posted this thread and basically patched the game to make bubbles work as stopping ewarp “like directed tackle already does” –unfortunately in the case of hic points directed tackle doesn’t actually work so in lowsec you can’t do this vs supers unless you bump them. This was presumably overlooked by CCP – surely if they intended bubbles to warp they intended focused points to work as they are the same principle

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...76#post1335076

    A side effect of this is as the game doesn’t cancel their ewarp when the hic points go on, the player can’t cancel warp and I guess light a cyno or whatever. – Obviously in this case it would make no difference as he melted but it’s a reasonable point – however considering CCP patched the game to make bubbles work –surely it’s their intention that killing people at login is a viable tactic and the only thing we did wrong was not do it in null – which seems unreasonable – it also seems unreasonable that CCP would not allow bumping as a valid tactic in this context – and force you to use a bubble.

    To reiterate – if we’d have done this in null with a bubble- this would not even be considered as dodgy, - why should supers be safer in lowsec?

    Conversely – say you surrounded a pos with loads of smartbombers and lit them as the guy landed – he can’t cancel warp still, would die (if you had enough lol) – would this also be an exploit? What if we didn’t bump him at all but just bridged 1000 tornados and alpha’d him before he could warp – would this be an exploit?

    IMO this can be sorted in a few ways (in order of preference):

    Make it so being focused pointed drops you out of ewarp – this would mean the mechanic is still valid and holds with CCP’s mantra of you are vulnerable while in space.

    Make it so you can’t take damage in ewarp.

    Make it so you can’t be interacted with (bumped/shot whatever) on login.

    The last 2 would mean rolling back the changes that CCP put in for bubbles to affect ewarp –presumably they don’t want to do this so IMO the only answer is the first one as that gives consistency across the tackle methods.

    Of course then the issue remains you could still just bump them and they wouldn’t be able to warp and you don’t even need to drop them out of warp with a point – to fix that you would have to make ewarp manually cancellable – which might have balance issues.

    Or you know – people could fit their titans properly, scout local, look for probes, etc etc

    TLDR – don’t feel it’s an exploit due to masterplans post/previous patch changes, Rubicon just made it easier to do. Has always been legal in null. Only issue is inability to cancel ewarp. Hopefully CCP clarify.
    What? I didn't believe you about the bubble stopping ewarp and I just tested it 4 times on SiSi, each time my super warped off, ignoring the bubble.

  15. #3095

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    I think the point is that the e warp can't be cancelled and the pilot has no control over his or her ship. My understanding is that the e warp is a part of the login process. I would feel p aggrieved if it was my titan killed.
    psycho freak > BBC fleet


  16. #3096

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOLER View Post
    It's a bit much if you have to nano and nomad a titan just to log in. I want to keep my cargo expanders and crystal implants plz
    You already do in null if you dont wanna get bubbled

  17. #3097

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0wbagger View Post
    We tested this extensively for about a week before trying this.

    We’d tried before but it was harder to do pre patch – not undoable but they would need to be v slow to warp.

    With alignment mods like mwd or istabs you can still get off grid before anyone turns up.

    CCP posted this thread and basically patched the game to make bubbles work as stopping ewarp “like directed tackle already does” –unfortunately in the case of hic points directed tackle doesn’t actually work so in lowsec you can’t do this vs supers unless you bump them. This was presumably overlooked by CCP – surely if they intended bubbles to warp they intended focused points to work as they are the same principle

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...76#post1335076

    A side effect of this is as the game doesn’t cancel their ewarp when the hic points go on, the player can’t cancel warp and I guess light a cyno or whatever. – Obviously in this case it would make no difference as he melted but it’s a reasonable point – however considering CCP patched the game to make bubbles work –surely it’s their intention that killing people at login is a viable tactic and the only thing we did wrong was not do it in null – which seems unreasonable – it also seems unreasonable that CCP would not allow bumping as a valid tactic in this context – and force you to use a bubble.

    To reiterate – if we’d have done this in null with a bubble- this would not even be considered as dodgy, - why should supers be safer in lowsec?

    Conversely – say you surrounded a pos with loads of smartbombers and lit them as the guy landed – he can’t cancel warp still, would die (if you had enough lol) – would this also be an exploit? What if we didn’t bump him at all but just bridged 1000 tornados and alpha’d him before he could warp – would this be an exploit?

    IMO this can be sorted in a few ways (in order of preference):

    Make it so being focused pointed drops you out of ewarp – this would mean the mechanic is still valid and holds with CCP’s mantra of you are vulnerable while in space.

    Make it so you can’t take damage in ewarp.

    Make it so you can’t be interacted with (bumped/shot whatever) on login.

    The last 2 would mean rolling back the changes that CCP put in for bubbles to affect ewarp –presumably they don’t want to do this so IMO the only answer is the first one as that gives consistency across the tackle methods.

    Of course then the issue remains you could still just bump them and they wouldn’t be able to warp and you don’t even need to drop them out of warp with a point – to fix that you would have to make ewarp manually cancellable – which might have balance issues.

    Or you know – people could fit their titans properly, scout local, look for probes, etc etc

    TLDR – don’t feel it’s an exploit due to masterplans post/previous patch changes, Rubicon just made it easier to do. Has always been legal in null. Only issue is inability to cancel ewarp. Hopefully CCP clarify.
    What? I didn't believe you about the bubble stopping ewarp and I just tested it 4 times on SiSi, each time my super warped off, ignoring the bubble.
    Read the masterplan post, must not be working as intended, or you dropped the bubble too llate

  18. #3098

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    When CCP changed the mechanic so you did disappear inside the forcefield and didn't ewarp if you logged out in a POS, it made it clear that logging at a POS was supposed to be safe. As long as it's still your POS when you logged back obviously...

    A question, when you log off in a rapecaged POS, are you caught by the bubbles outside of it when you log back?

  19. #3099

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    Bubles or hic points dont stop you . You allways go threw em its been like this for a very long time .
    The tactic seems viable and all. I mean its fair , but the fact that the titan pilot cant control hes ship is not , its basicly vindi/vigilant webbing jf`s on station all over again .

  20. #3100

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    No, read masterplans post, that works as intended

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