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Thread: Mafiaheap Challenge Round 12 OOG discussion

  1. #21
    Bentguru's Avatar
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    janitor and lawyer should have limited # of uses, but be able to clean people the day of their death imo.

  2. #22

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    Janitor being able to do it on the day SOUNDS fine and balanced, and quite good fun for trolling the village with random spod cleans, but its actually amazingly strong in the mafia's favour if they use it right. Some of us know how to do this, i'm sure.

    As the lawyer's effect is pretty obvious (wait, lynchvoted and didnt die, I WONDER WHAT HAPPEN), its a lot less stealthy. With the limited uses, it really needs to be as powerful as the todays-lynch effect, with unlimited, it needs some other kind of power reduction, for example a day of delay. I'd prefer to find some other way than either to balance it, though.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bentguru View Post
    janitor and lawyer should have limited # of uses, but be able to clean people the day of their death imo.
    Fight your boss to the death.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bentguru View Post
    janitor and lawyer should have limited # of uses, but be able to clean people the day of their death imo.
    Fight your boss to the death.
    If the duck signs up im quitting...
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bentguru View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
    In. Q about the lawyer since this is his first game. Does the lawyer need to vote a day ahead like the janitor, or can they troll the village by blocking all lynch attempts?
    Day ahead, limited number of stops.

    the thing from the buzz buzz
    Since the Lawyer's ability only applies during the day (nighttime application is the reason the Janitor has to declare a day in advance), I would suggest against having both of these restrictions. It's difficult for the Janitor to waste a cleaning if he's coordinating with the Mafia to clean the Godfather's hits; the daytime application is a secondary effect that I decided not to "patch" out because it had interesting implications. A Lawyer who has to declare a day in advance AND has a limited number of actions can very easily waste them all.

    In actuality, I think the role, as a Village role, works without either restriction.
    At the absolute least the lawyer needs to be able to block the lynch of the day, otherwise he's basically useless since predicting lynches is basically impossible in FHC
    Same reason the Janitor was basically useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody_Holme View Post
    Janitor being able to do it on the day SOUNDS fine and balanced, and quite good fun for trolling the village with random spod cleans, but its actually amazingly strong in the mafia's favour if they use it right. Some of us know how to do this, i'm sure.

    As the lawyer's effect is pretty obvious (wait, lynchvoted and didnt die, I WONDER WHAT HAPPEN), its a lot less stealthy. With the limited uses, it really needs to be as powerful as the todays-lynch effect, with unlimited, it needs some other kind of power reduction, for example a day of delay. I'd prefer to find some other way than either to balance it, though.
    Good lord, do I have to fucking spell it out for you mongs? THE JANITOR ROLE IS USED ON THE MAFIA'S KILL TARGETS DURING THE NIGHT SO THAT THE PERSON THE MAFIA KILLS ISN'T ROLE REVEALED

    The day use is something someone asked about and I went "v0v sure why not" because without a magic crystal ball to predict lynches it's not so great except in interesting fringe circumstances, and I ruled the delay thing because otherwise the Janitor would basically have two power actions and be OP.

    The fact that none of you fuckers seems to understand what the Janitor is actually supposed to do might be why you think it's underpowered - or conversely, why you get odd results balancing other roles against what you perceive it to be doing.

    tl;dr someone didn't understand their role and instead of asking how to use it suggested an alternate mechanism, I allowed it because it was amusing and not because it had any impact on the game whatsoever, and now everyone thinks the fringe/joke power is the real deal
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  6. #26
    Donor Navigator Six's Avatar
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    I think the janitor is fine. In the last couple of games it hasn't been able to be used well is all, I think; when I was the janitor our consigliere died on the first or second round, and while I got some cleanings in I don't think we ever actually knew the role of the targets.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator Six View Post
    I think the janitor is fine. In the last couple of games it hasn't been able to be used well is all, I think; when I was the janitor our consigliere died on the first or second round, and while I got some cleanings in I don't think we ever actually knew the role of the targets.
    That's exactly the point though, its not very useful most of the time because of this. About the only useful thing is clean a hit on the sheriff so the don can pretend to be the sheriff and not easily get found out. For this to work you first need to accidentally find the sheriff, hope they haven't contacted anyone and convinced them and done a couple of useless cleans before this. As its a role that's not been used much before the first thing people are going to think when they see a clean is 'welp there gos the sheriff'. It has a very small window of being useful.

    That's why I think EITHER remove the restriction on lynches or remove the restriction on number of cleans.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  8. #28
    Donor Navigator Six's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator Six View Post
    I think the janitor is fine. In the last couple of games it hasn't been able to be used well is all, I think; when I was the janitor our consigliere died on the first or second round, and while I got some cleanings in I don't think we ever actually knew the role of the targets.
    That's exactly the point though, its not very useful most of the time because of this. About the only useful thing is clean a hit on the sheriff so the don can pretend to be the sheriff and not easily get found out. For this to work you first need to accidentally find the sheriff, hope they haven't contacted anyone and convinced them and done a couple of useless cleans before this. As its a role that's not been used much before the first thing people are going to think when they see a clean is 'welp there gos the sheriff'. It has a very small window of being useful.

    That's why I think EITHER remove the restriction on lynches or remove the restriction on number of cleans.
    Why is cleaning the sheriff the only useful thing to do? You can clean pretty much anyone else and have the village think it's the sheriff, and that they're now screwed. Just for example. The janitor might not be quite as powerful as you'd like in most situations, but it's certainly useful.
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  9. #29

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    Did I refer to the nightkill effect of the janitor? -.-

    Its the ability to clean the daykill on the same day thats a bad idea.

  10. #30
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    I'm in, but I think for this to work, both mafia teams should have investigative roles. Also, some advertising of the game to bring up the number of players to 20?

  11. #31
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator Six View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator Six View Post
    I think the janitor is fine. In the last couple of games it hasn't been able to be used well is all, I think; when I was the janitor our consigliere died on the first or second round, and while I got some cleanings in I don't think we ever actually knew the role of the targets.
    That's exactly the point though, its not very useful most of the time because of this. About the only useful thing is clean a hit on the sheriff so the don can pretend to be the sheriff and not easily get found out. For this to work you first need to accidentally find the sheriff, hope they haven't contacted anyone and convinced them and done a couple of useless cleans before this. As its a role that's not been used much before the first thing people are going to think when they see a clean is 'welp there gos the sheriff'. It has a very small window of being useful.

    That's why I think EITHER remove the restriction on lynches or remove the restriction on number of cleans.
    Why is cleaning the sheriff the only useful thing to do? You can clean pretty much anyone else and have the village think it's the sheriff, and that they're now screwed. Just for example. The janitor might not be quite as powerful as you'd like in most situations, but it's certainly useful.
    Except with the sheriff still alive that confusion lasts for about 2 rounds until the sheriff has proven themselves to still be alive, and they we are back to the sheriff leading the village around by the nose.

    We have played 2 games with the Janitor and they have had zero effect.

    I'd like to point out im not a big fan of most of the other mafia roles as well though so you can just ignore me.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  12. #32
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    So, after thinking about it, I'm going to say the lawyer can guard a target right before the lynch, but reveals himself to do so.

    20 is my ideal number, so can people bug your friends? The idea won't really work with 10.

    :Tabletz:

  13. #33
    Bentguru's Avatar
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    I'm actually going to have to take my name off of the list for this one, I'll be out of town and unable to participate for the majority of the game I think

  14. #34

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    We have friends?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody_Holme View Post
    We have friends?
    Characters are friends right? I'm not sure if they can play though.

  16. #36

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    Sign me up brah
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  17. #37
    Movember '12 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 LarkinAlpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    So, after thinking about it, I'm going to say the lawyer can guard a target right before the lynch, but reveals himself to do so.

    20 is my ideal number, so can people bug your friends? The idea won't really work with 10.

    :Tabletz:
    Maybe FHC is tired of Mafia? Could also be people on vacations and out enjoying the sun.... Wait, we're all basement dwelling neckbeards, what am I saying?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkinAlpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    So, after thinking about it, I'm going to say the lawyer can guard a target right before the lynch, but reveals himself to do so.

    20 is my ideal number, so can people bug your friends? The idea won't really work with 10.

    :Tabletz:
    Maybe FHC is tired of Mafia? Could also be people on vacations and out enjoying the sun.... Wait, we're all basement dwelling neckbeards, what am I saying?
    I'm going with tired. I think rules burnout may also be playing a part.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  19. #39
    Movember '12 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 LarkinAlpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LarkinAlpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    So, after thinking about it, I'm going to say the lawyer can guard a target right before the lynch, but reveals himself to do so.

    20 is my ideal number, so can people bug your friends? The idea won't really work with 10.

    :Tabletz:
    Maybe FHC is tired of Mafia? Could also be people on vacations and out enjoying the sun.... Wait, we're all basement dwelling neckbeards, what am I saying?
    I'm going with tired. I think rules burnout may also be playing a part.
    Probably this.

  20. #40
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    I think we can rule out rules burnout (ba-dum-TISH!), since the heavy roles game before the anon game was quite popular.

    Im gonna go with the "its summer" theory / regular burnout.
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