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Thread: So.. 1984 US Edition

  1. #21
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    Neil McCauley: Assume they got our phones, assume they got our houses, assume they got us, right here, right now as we sit, everything. Assume it all.

  2. #22
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  3. #23
    Donor TheManFromDelmonte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me View Post
    er, no. The point made there is that while "google" may have been on Prism they claim they didn't know. ie. contrary to what was said above the corps did not say yes, the NSA didn't bother asking it just tore the data from the backbone.

    In this scenario "Prism" having google access means a set of prototcols have been written to find google traffic in the backbone and render it useful for intelligence purposes. eg. reverse engineering the google docs data from the packet info and providing it to an engine to search for interesting info.

    Of course if they were in prism they wouldn't be able to talk about it anyway, so... yeah.

  4. #24
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me View Post
    I'm pretty sure Larry Page is genuine with what he wrote there. But it leaves holes so massive you can drive a truck through it!

    On the one hand he excludes only direct access (NSA doesn't need it), then admits other access but with a screening process (but Google can't refuse).

    In the end this is secret legislation, with a secret court, based on an absurd law (patriot act), that several successive administrations in the US have been abusing to the hilt, and is only, really, a digital version of the massive signal intelligence program they already had anyway.

    Privacy was pretty lamed in the US before, since Patriot it is dead. And it hardly existed on the internets anyway.

  5. #25
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManFromDelmonte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Me View Post
    er, no. The point made there is that while "google" may have been on Prism they claim they didn't know. ie. contrary to what was said above the corps did not say yes, the NSA didn't bother asking it just tore the data from the backbone.

    In this scenario "Prism" having google access means a set of prototcols have been written to find google traffic in the backbone and render it useful for intelligence purposes. eg. reverse engineering the google docs data from the packet info and providing it to an engine to search for interesting info.

    Of course if they were in prism they wouldn't be able to talk about it anyway, so... yeah.
    reverse engineering? Hahaha

    From: NSA
    To: Larry Page

    Give us your protocols or else.

    ref: Patriot Act
    From: Larry Page
    To: NSA

    I've had my lawyers look at this. It seems I can't refuse. Here they are.

    attachment: protocols
    From: NSA
    To: Larry Page

    kthxbye
    Done. Google is now part of project *blankityblank*. Date: 1/14/09.

  6. #26
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Me View Post
    I'm pretty sure Larry Page is genuine with what he wrote there. But it leaves holes so massive you can drive a truck through it!

    On the one hand he excludes only direct access (NSA doesn't need it), then admits other access but with a screening process (but Google can't refuse).

    In the end this is secret legislation, with a secret court, based on an absurd law (patriot act), that several successive administrations in the US have been abusing to the hilt, and is only, really, a digital version of the massive signal intelligence program they already had anyway.

    Privacy was pretty lamed in the US before, since Patriot it is dead. And it hardly existed on the internets anyway.
    You dont get it. No one cares what happens in the ufsa. They can watch you pee live and the world doesnt care.
    No one outside US gives a shit about the patriot act (as do most americans)
    Its about how the rest of the world is affected by us intelligence actions.
    If this was done by china, russia or a similiar country it would (and should)be considered a hostile act.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  7. #27
    Donor TheManFromDelmonte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    If this was done by china, russia or a similiar country it would (and should)be considered a hostile act.
    I'm idly curious if there's a treason or espionage case to be made against the local subsidary companies.

  8. #28
    fuck entrox Donor Jason Marshall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Me View Post
    I'm pretty sure Larry Page is genuine with what he wrote there. But it leaves holes so massive you can drive a truck through it!

    On the one hand he excludes only direct access (NSA doesn't need it), then admits other access but with a screening process (but Google can't refuse).

    In the end this is secret legislation, with a secret court, based on an absurd law (patriot act), that several successive administrations in the US have been abusing to the hilt, and is only, really, a digital version of the massive signal intelligence program they already had anyway.

    Privacy was pretty lamed in the US before, since Patriot it is dead. And it hardly existed on the internets anyway.
    You dont get it. No one cares what happens in the ufsa. They can watch you pee live and the world doesnt care.
    No one outside US gives a shit about the patriot act (as do most americans)
    Its about how the rest of the world is affected by us intelligence actions.
    If this was done by china, russia or a similiar country it would (and should)be considered a hostile act.
    and until u stop treating us like we are above our actions the government wont change. if we can get an advantage without any fallout we will take it.

    phonepostin

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  9. #29
    Movember 2012 ElweSingollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManFromDelmonte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    If this was done by china, russia or a similiar country it would (and should)be considered a hostile act.
    I'm idly curious if there's a treason or espionage case to be made against the local subsidary companies.
    One would imagine that if the companies are proved to be willing conspiritors and the governments wanted to make an issue of it you could maybe charge the head operating officers for the local companies... thing is that would never happen in the UK as we are basically complicit in PRISM as GCHQ take the crumbs of intellegince from the US's table so we are quite happy to fuck our own people over cause "TERROR!!!!!!!" must be stopped at all costs.
    Last edited by ElweSingollo; June 8 2013 at 05:38:20 PM.

  10. #30
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Me View Post
    I'm pretty sure Larry Page is genuine with what he wrote there. But it leaves holes so massive you can drive a truck through it!

    On the one hand he excludes only direct access (NSA doesn't need it), then admits other access but with a screening process (but Google can't refuse).

    In the end this is secret legislation, with a secret court, based on an absurd law (patriot act), that several successive administrations in the US have been abusing to the hilt, and is only, really, a digital version of the massive signal intelligence program they already had anyway.

    Privacy was pretty lamed in the US before, since Patriot it is dead. And it hardly existed on the internets anyway.
    You dont get it. No one cares what happens in the ufsa. They can watch you pee live and the world doesnt care.
    No one outside US gives a shit about the patriot act (as do most americans)
    Its about how the rest of the world is affected by us intelligence actions.
    If this was done by china, russia or a similiar country it would (and should)be considered a hostile act.
    You don't seem to get how deeply the western European countries are involved with the US on intelligence gathering and with their intelligence agencies.

    Take that German article. Were the Germans upset about the privacy, or about to consider the whole thing a hostile act? Shit no. The only thing they were concerned about is industrial espionage. Because of: cars.

    You're right about one thing though: the people of the US are powerless to stop it (or don't care/want to). But tell me again how 'the rest of the world' would stop the US? I think they're pretty powerless as well ...

  11. #31
    Donor TheManFromDelmonte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElweSingollo View Post
    One would imagine that if the companies are prooved to be willing conspiritors and the governments wanted to make an issue of it you could maybe charge the head operating officers for the local companies... thing is that would never happen in the UK as we are basically complicit in PRISM as GCHQ take the crumbs of intellegince from the US's table so we are quite happy to fuck our own people over cause "TERROR!!!!!!!" must be stopped at all costs.
    Totally, I can see France and Germany taking the industrial espionage angle seriously though.
    (Also, I think the rumour is GCHQ do the intelligence work for the US it isn't legally allowed to do. ie. spying on american citizens. In exchange they...promise to keep trident working? Spy on British citizens? meh)

  12. #32

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    Iirc there was a discussion going around a year back or so that US would consider hacking attacks grounds for initiation of hostilities (read: bomb a kindergarden). Coupled with the idea that made rounds in the pentagon during Rumsfeld about use of limited tactical nukes, im just waiting for the US to bomb itself.

  13. #33
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    If the US government started spying on German or Jap auto makers then perhaps they'd start producing something halfway decent.

    Oh wait, they'd just fuck it up anyway because they'll reduce cost/increase profits at any opportunity.
    Actually an '06.

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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisReaper View Post
    Not even the president is pretending it isn't happening, they just don't want to be transparent about it. Mostly because "shhhh it's a secret" but also a minor part which will be part of the talking point I guarantee it is the fact that it is not admissible for prosecution of U.S. citizens (though it clearly provides leads to things that is admissible) and farming the internet for data would obviously raise so many false flags that releasing the data to the public would make the New York Posts performance during the Boston Bombing seem reasonable and measured.

    Hell just pulling data about me from this forum I would be everything from a severe terrorist risk to a die hard patriot not to be worried about.

  16. #36
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    Oh and then of course there is this factoid. The 9/11 commission put in to effect an oversight committee that would have access to all the new spying policies as an independant preventative watchdog group to prevent governmental overstep. Due to politicians being politicians the creation of this oversight committee was prevented due to cockblocking appointments since the inception of the idea of the committee until about two weeks ago. So proper oversight 'may' start happening soon™.

  17. #37
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManFromDelmonte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ElweSingollo View Post
    One would imagine that if the companies are prooved to be willing conspiritors and the governments wanted to make an issue of it you could maybe charge the head operating officers for the local companies... thing is that would never happen in the UK as we are basically complicit in PRISM as GCHQ take the crumbs of intellegince from the US's table so we are quite happy to fuck our own people over cause "TERROR!!!!!!!" must be stopped at all costs.
    Totally, I can see France and Germany taking the industrial espionage angle seriously though.
    (Also, I think the rumour is GCHQ do the intelligence work for the US it isn't legally allowed to do. ie. spying on american citizens. In exchange they...promise to keep trident working? Spy on British citizens? meh)
    Which is very funny because especially France is known to engage in massive industrial espionage (not least on the Germans), and being very successful at it as well! The French and German governments/agencies aren't angry at the US; they're envious!

    Which is why I always have to laugh when the US government comes out against hacking (or likewise) from Russia, China, Iran, etc. They themselves do so much more, and are far far better at it as well.

  18. #38
    Donor Devec's Avatar
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    It was clear on the offset that when the patriot act was created that the us government was able to do this kind of shit. Any outrage about this is just delayed.
    [~A place to talk about autism~]



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  19. #39
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  20. #40
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    Another prime example of the shortcomings of the american educational system. If history has taught us anything its that you dont piss of the germans. They are militaristic by nature, they are ruthlessly effecient, and they have absolutely no sense of humor.
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