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Thread: So.. 1984 US Edition

  1. #1
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    So.. 1984 US Edition

    I wonder there is no thread about.

    Date each company joined the program, with Microsoft being the first, on Sept. 11, 2007, and Apple the most recent, in October 2012

    Has no one thought about the implications for the us economy yet?
    (just put the big brother is watching you aside for the moment which is frightning enough but no surprise)
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/07/po...html?hpt=hp_t2
    The Post reported PRISM, founded in 2007, has become the leading source of raw material for the NSA.

    Clapper did not directly confirm the program's existence but acknowledged that the Post and Guardian stories "refer to collection of communications pursuant to Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act."

    That section of the law authorizes intelligence agencies to collect information on non-U.S. residents as part of efforts to gather foreign intelligence.

    He said the program cannot be used to target anyone inside the United States or U.S. citizens anywhere in the world and includes "extensive procedures, specifically approved by the court, to ensure that only non-U.S. persons outside the U.S. are targeted, and that minimize the acquisition, retention and dissemination of incidentally acquired information about U.S. persons."
    ..........
    In its stead, the newspaper described a classified report indicating that NSA analysts were allowed to send "content tasking instructions directly to equipment installed at company-controlled locations."

    AT&T, Verizon and Comcast declined to comment on the report Friday. Time Warner said it was unfamiliar with PRISM.

    Microsoft said Thursday that it doesn't participate in any national security data gathering program. Facebook and Google said they do not give government agencies direct access to their servers.
    According to german sources following companys are compromised, just to name the major ones: apple, Google, Facebook, microsoft

    So lets talk about non us citizens and companies....
    Thats proberbly the biggest case of economic espionage of all time. and everybody worried about china.
    I think we will see a major politica and economical impact after our politicans get it finaly.
    And they have started: At least the germans are fucking pissed: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...-a-904413.html use google translate.

    #interview http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...rd-snowden-why
    #twitter account, dunno if fake https://twitter.com/EJosephSnowden
    Last edited by Miep; June 10 2013 at 02:13:01 PM.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  2. #2
    His Excellency, Moderator 4 Life, Field Marshal Drakma, VC[C], DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the Internet in General and Failheap Challenge in Particular, and in addition the uncrowned King of Rule 2 Donor
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  3. #3
    fuck entrox Donor Jason Marshall's Avatar
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    Already assumed it was happening.

    Not terribly worried about it since they cant legally look at the data without a warrant at the criminal level when it comes to court-cases involving US Citizens.

    Whatever the rest of the world allows my government to do is there own business.

    "Sometimes someone just needs to be the OP" -Tellenta Philosopher of our People.

  4. #4
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakma View Post
    Wat
    In its stead, the newspaper described a classified report indicating that NSA analysts were allowed to send "content tasking instructions directly to equipment installed at company-controlled locations."

    AT&T, Verizon and Comcast declined to comment on the report Friday. Time Warner said it was unfamiliar with PRISM.

    Microsoft said Thursday that it doesn't participate in any national security data gathering program. Facebook and Google said they do not give government agencies direct access to their servers.

    ... Why should anyone suppose they limit the use for the "war against terror". Just replace a search criteria, thats all.
    Last edited by Miep; June 8 2013 at 10:29:41 AM.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  5. #5
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Since when is this news?


    

  6. #6
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Since when is this news?
    For me since german news start reporting that Prismn wasnt used exclusive for the silly terror war.
    There are a lot pissed people here :http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...-a-904413.html
    Last edited by Miep; June 8 2013 at 10:37:54 AM.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  7. #7
    fuck entrox Donor Jason Marshall's Avatar
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    You should be more pissed that your government allowed my government to do such things.

    "Sometimes someone just needs to be the OP" -Tellenta Philosopher of our People.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator DonorGlobal Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    You should be more pissed that your government allowed my government to do such things.
    So he should be pissed that the german government let the american government spy on them?

    I'm sad to say that your americanism is shining through here Jason.

  9. #9
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    You should be more pissed that your government allowed my government to do such things.
    Well, if youd read my post you would understand that my government IS pissed. As there are mamy companys. The Cloud idea is basicly dead now.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  10. #10
    fuck entrox Donor Jason Marshall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hast View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    You should be more pissed that your government allowed my government to do such things.
    So he should be pissed that the german government let the american government spy on them?

    I'm sad to say that your americanism is shining through here Jason.
    Yeah well, im tired of catching all the heat for something I cant change unless I start shooting people. Im not willing to kill at this point to change my government and our voting process is so fucked I don't see any non-violent soloutions. :\

    Also OP linked to CNN. One of the problem companies.
    Last edited by Jason Marshall; June 8 2013 at 11:20:42 AM.

    "Sometimes someone just needs to be the OP" -Tellenta Philosopher of our People.

  11. #11
    Ab Tallen's Avatar
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    Jesselyn Radack (former ethics attorney for the Justice Department), Thomas Drake (former NSA exec), William Binney (former NSA) talking about their experiences with US surveillance.



    Not about PRISM itself, but well worth watching the whole thing, just to set up the scene, if you haven't already (talk part is about 1:30, the rest is discussion). The US have been on the road to a surveillance state ever since 9/11, and let's face it - electronic communication makes this very easy. And monitoring the communications sphere is not limited much by technological barriers like storage constraints - in the end everything hinges on what the law allows, and if there's anyone left enforcing it.

  12. #12
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    I still cant imagine how people didnt think this is happening? Stories (and trials ) have long been around how NSA is doing illegal tapping on pretty much everything without any repercussion. This is why when using any sort of cloud service encrypting the data before hand is advised.


    

  13. #13
    Donor TheManFromDelmonte's Avatar
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    The UK government decided the best thing to do about this was to issue a D-notice.

    http://www.andmagazine.com/content/phoenix/13003.html

    It's not legally enforceable, it's just a polite request to the media to not report anything about Prism. So as it's not 1984 the D-notice has been reported.

    I was actually a little surprised at Prism, I didn't think the NSA would bother asking permission.

  14. #14
    Donor Tellenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    You should be more pissed that your government allowed my government to do such things.
    Well, if youd read my post you would understand that my government IS pissed. As there are mamy companys. The Cloud idea is basicly dead now.
    You thought all of those "the government is watching us post" jokes were in jest? Or did germany just realize data mining on the internet doesnt have borders?

    fone poastin

  15. #15
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    You should be more pissed that your government allowed my government to do such things.
    Well, if youd read my post you would understand that my government IS pissed. As there are mamy companys. The Cloud idea is basicly dead now.
    You thought all of those "the government is watching us post" jokes were in jest? Or did germany just realize data mining on the internet doesnt have borders?

    fone poastin
    Oh, iam in no way surprised. But this time it will get a lot of attention, thats the difference.
    My governemnt is now forced into action while in past had tolerated american "initiatives".
    Last edited by Miep; June 8 2013 at 12:04:02 PM.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  16. #16
    fuck entrox Donor Jason Marshall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    You should be more pissed that your government allowed my government to do such things.
    Well, if youd read my post you would understand that my government IS pissed. As there are mamy companys. The Cloud idea is basicly dead now.
    You thought all of those "the government is watching us post" jokes were in jest? Or did germany just realize data mining on the internet doesnt have borders?

    fone poastin
    Oh, iam in no way personaly surprised. But this time it will get a lot of attention, thats the difference.
    My governemnt is now forced to do something while in past had tolerated american "initiatives".
    And this is exactly what needs to happen.

    We have allowed companies to become so large and influential that even if we elect decent people to power in our country it will be decades before anything is done. It would be nice if other countries started sanctioning American corporations so the process happens a little faster. Economics are going to effect the best changes to politics.

    "Sometimes someone just needs to be the OP" -Tellenta Philosopher of our People.

  17. #17
    Donor TheManFromDelmonte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    We have allowed companies to become so large and influential that even if we elect decent people to power in our country it will be decades before anything is done. It would be nice if other countries started sanctioning American corporations so the process happens a little faster. Economics are going to effect the best changes to politics.
    The corporations aren't the issue here, at all. The effect of economic sanctions, or boycotts, will be for the corporations to put pressure on the US government. It's the US government and it's pathetic insecurity that needs to change.

  18. #18
    fuck entrox Donor Jason Marshall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManFromDelmonte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    We have allowed companies to become so large and influential that even if we elect decent people to power in our country it will be decades before anything is done. It would be nice if other countries started sanctioning American corporations so the process happens a little faster. Economics are going to effect the best changes to politics.
    The corporations aren't the issue here, at all. The effect of economic sanctions, or boycotts, will be for the corporations to put pressure on the US government. It's the US government and it's pathetic insecurity that needs to change.
    And the US Government is elected by corporations at this point. Until the people put pressure on the corporations to stop supporting politicians that agree with these kinds of policies, nothing is going to change.

    I forgot the exact numbers but you need several hundreds of millions of dollars to put on an effective campaign to even have a chance at becoming the President.

    I think it was 50m-100m to become a Congressman.

    Significantly less to run for state seats.

    The problem is the politicians but even if the current politicians in office lose their seats over this mess the replacements wont be any better until their is severe economic consequences to having the same positions but with less extreme rhetoric.

    "Sometimes someone just needs to be the OP" -Tellenta Philosopher of our People.

  19. #19
    Donor Tellenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManFromDelmonte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Marshall View Post
    We have allowed companies to become so large and influential that even if we elect decent people to power in our country it will be decades before anything is done. It would be nice if other countries started sanctioning American corporations so the process happens a little faster. Economics are going to effect the best changes to politics.
    The corporations aren't the issue here, at all. The effect of economic sanctions, or boycotts, will be for the corporations to put pressure on the US government. It's the US government and it's pathetic insecurity that needs to change.
    It's within a corporations building that most of this outrage stems. The NSA said "could we" and the business said "sure here is your own special spy room". Instead of saying no like the warrantless wire tapping scenario in 2002.

  20. #20
    evil edna's Avatar
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    :jason marshall:

    also im more surprised that people didnt think this was happening than i am that it is happening.

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