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Thread: [What to do] PI - Processor-only planets

  1. #41
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike. I can't always be bothered with PI, but when I do, I use your spreadsheet.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  2. #42
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Interbus POCOs in low and null are showing at a 17% tax rate currently, on Sisi. Assume this will be the same for WHs too.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    Removed the ability to set DIFFERENT input and output market hubs. The utility just didn't seem there and I was running out of space. Easy to fix/add if anyone really interested in that.
    I have at least one friend who was using that, because he wasn't basing near (j)ita and didn't want to run that far that often. I'm near to (j)ita so it doesnt affect me. Additionally - how possible (or impossible) would it be to add something that tells you how many profitable units are possible, given the current market? Your spreadsheet is already so complicated that it does most of the thinking for me, but sometimes I think I know what I am after, only to discover when I actually eyeball the market that there isn't enough at the right price to fill my planets and I have to do more than one item, or see that there is one buy order significantly higher than the others and after filling that it is no longer worthwhile for the rest.

    Also - thanks a ton for making this public. In a single shard world, sharing info like this is a rarity and I appreciate it.

  4. #44

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    Also, strange thing for the spreadsheet, if I change the refill time to 3 days the P1 shows only 2.5 days fit, which is fine - but it shows the monthly profit as less than when I set it to 2 days refill.

  5. #45
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solanar View Post
    Also, strange thing for the spreadsheet, if I change the refill time to 3 days the P1 shows only 2.5 days fit, which is fine - but it shows the monthly profit as less than when I set it to 2 days refill.
    Yeah, because on the 2 day refill the processors run 100% of the time, whereas for the 3 day refill they only run 83% of the time.

    When I pulled data from Eve-metrics I had an indicator if the market trade volume was big enough to take the output you intended to produce. Eve-Central doesn't provide the data I need via API to so this - so yeah you need to eyeball it. Neither can I take account of erroneous buy/sell orders on Eve-Central.

    Btw, you can still choose between market hubs, it's just there is no longer an (easy) way for you to choose a different inputs hub to the outputs hub.

  6. #46

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    Yeah, someone had some of those scam buy orders up - the ones that require a LOT of the item and fail when you try to fill them. Made it look possible to make 6b a month from one planet, briefly. Another one is currently there making it look like industrial explosives are worth 4.5 bil a month.

    He was basing between two hubs and setting different inputs and outputs back and forth between the two let him choose the route that worked best. However, he still has a copy of the one with different hubs saved so he's fine. He'll eventually have to decide if any updates are worth giving up that functionality.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solanar View Post
    Yeah, someone had some of those scam buy orders up - the ones that require a LOT of the item and fail when you try to fill them. Made it look possible to make 6b a month from one planet, briefly. Another one is currently there making it look like industrial explosives are worth 4.5 bil a month.
    Yeah, I noticed this myself, and it pissed me right the fuck off. Fucked up the price of Neocoms too, but not to near as big an extent. Fortunately, bottom line is *usually* that any P2 -> P3 processing does make at least a little money.

  8. #48
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solanar View Post
    Yeah, someone had some of those scam buy orders up - the ones that require a LOT of the item and fail when you try to fill them. Made it look possible to make 6b a month from one planet, briefly. Another one is currently there making it look like industrial explosives are worth 4.5 bil a month.

    He was basing between two hubs and setting different inputs and outputs back and forth between the two let him choose the route that worked best. However, he still has a copy of the one with different hubs saved so he's fine. He'll eventually have to decide if any updates are worth giving up that functionality.
    Ah ok. I can probably find a way to do a bit of re-arranging and bring it back in. I replied to your PM btw. Did I identify the problem for you?

  9. #49
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice

    Seems like they've gone with the upper end of the values.

    Taxation

    *Tax % is taken off the material's taxable value.
    **This value is set by CCP and is based off the market values in November 2011
    **Import is always half of export tax

    *The taxable value are the same for all items in the same tier
    **Advanced Commodities: 1,350,000.00 ISK
    **Specialized Commodities: 70,000.00 ISK
    **Refined Commodities: 9,000.00 ISK
    **Basic commodities: 500.00 ISK
    **Planet Resources: 5,00 ISK
    Working on an updated version with the new PI tax values and taking into account the 50% discount for importing. Currently giving this aspect a quick check on Sisi. Tested by importing and exporting on a highsec CO (10% tariff rate). Import cost was at 5%, export was at 10%.
    Last edited by Mike deVoid; November 25 2011 at 02:40:07 PM.

  10. #50
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Sheet and OP updated.

    Ready for Crucible release. New PI tariffs on sheet, 50% discount for imports included

  11. #51
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    Well this is the thread most related to PI. There is extreme speculation and fear mongering on official forums; predictions are that a lot if not most of highsec POSes will no longer be profitable and T2 invention and production would be greatly affected, leading up to return to legendary 2006. prices.

    Any foundation in those claims? If its close to plausible I'll have to try and avoid exploding in full T2 fit Rifters. It will be back to "if its not T2 or faction use meta".

  12. #52
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    The correct behaviour is to buy a crapload of cheap T2 modules now, knowing that you will use them eventually.

    Alternatively, consider that if technetium drops in price, T2 modules do as well, so bumping up PI is probably a required step towards increasing moon goo supply.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  13. #53

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    Whatever effect the new taxes have on POS fuel, it won't be as big as the introduction of PI did. Robotics went up 10x, coolant and mech parts, 20x, and uranium "just" 2-3x. And we still use T2, don't we?

    The magnitude of the effect will depend on how efficient people are in their setups. The absolute worst case scenario (exporting at all tiers, including raw materials) gives a price increase of 50k for robotics and 3.9k for coolant/uranium/mech parts. But if you don't export the P0 materials (which is a retarded thing to do), those numbers go down almost by 35-50%.

  14. #54

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    I just updated my POS fuel calcs and even with the mega-spike PI prices we have now (they will settle down a bit, part of the spike comes from fuel block builders), the total fuel bill for a large tower went up all of 12% from what it was a week or two ago. If your profit margins can't absorb that, you are bad at math or in a field that has oversupply.

    The only people who really whine about this are those who run random towers "because all the cool kids have their own POSes", without actually (fully) utilizing them for ISK-positive activities. For them, the vanity POS running is getting more pricy. Anyone who is doing anything for-profit with POSes just tweaks a few numbers in the spreadsheet and shrugs, noting that the next sell order must be set a bit higher.

    ...and if that means there is a bunch of cheaper sell orders, the correct move is to buy 'em off and relist at your price. If you can't do that, you do not have enough capital to work on the market you are in...

  15. #55
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Pretty much what Jack said.

    Upcoming feature for those "Minerals that I extract are free" crowd. Does the market price even cover the PI taxes you will be paying! (Useful to easily estimate profits from extraction.)

  16. #56

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    Spreadsheet is awesome Mike - Just one question RE: Crucible Customs office taxes in Highsec - Does the sheet now account for the new transfer taxes?

  17. #57
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophage View Post
    Spreadsheet is awesome Mike - Just one question RE: Crucible Customs office taxes in Highsec - Does the sheet now account for the new transfer taxes?
    Yes, check the quote from the OP below:

      Spoiler:
    Newest Features
    *Added in Option to set POCO Tariff rate. Current rate is equivalent to 5%, new Highsec COs will be 10%, Interbus COs will be 17%.
    *Ready for Crucible release. New PI tariffs on sheet, 50% discount for imports included. For more details see: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice

    NB: Removed the ability to make the input and output hubs DIFFERENT from each other. The 6 choices still remain, however. Contact me if this aspect is an issue for you.
    Last edited by Mike deVoid; December 1 2011 at 08:35:38 PM.

  18. #58
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    Hey Mike? Being the PI guy to hit up for questions... With the Crucible change to planetary link bandwidth is it actually necessary to tear down your old links and redo all of the routes? I'm getting some conflicting results personally.

    Some of my planets I'm able to add a new processor, where as before I thought everything was maxed. On other planets where I've torn down links and redid them I find I've got more free Power/CPU (whichever). Unfortunately I was rather half-assed with my testing, doing the PI stuff in the midst of other tasks, but I'm sorta curious how CCP implemented the change. I'm guessing I need to tear the links down and redo them to take advantage of the change... but would love to not have to.

  19. #59
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    As far as I can remember, there is no way to downgrade the links and so you pretty much have to delete them and then remake all the routes that used that link.

  20. #60
    bobgainsfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    As far as I can remember, there is no way to downgrade the links and so you pretty much have to delete them and then remake all the routes that used that link.
    That was my fear. Thanks kindly!

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