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Thread: The webbing trick, or stop dieing to frigates you noob.

  1. #21

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    Good post.

  2. #22
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ry ry View Post
    I hit keep at range with the web, probably doesn't make much difference in practice but it feels like it extends the tiny window to blap slightly.

    Dunno how the good players maintain manual 0m orbits and still micro modules though. Fucking furious clicking in space and keeping an eye on transversal leaves very little time to do other stuff
    The idea that "pro" frigate polits constantly manual pilot at all times even orbitting under guns is one of those bullshit fallacies that "ELITE PVP PROS" like to throw out there to chestbeat. 95% of the time once at the correct range they will still be using K@R and orbit. Manual piloting comes in the second you notice, for example, that the other guy has changed direction, dropped web or whatever, its not something you are doing constantly in a starcraft-style clickfury.

    Manual piloting for kiting, approaching from range, assisted tracking etc, by contrast, is absolutely essential, but its also WAY fucking easier, requiring only a new command every 3-5 seconds.

    I'd love to see proof of someone effectively orbiting under guns using manual pilotting in a frig. the amount of screen rotation alone renders it basically impossible
    Last edited by Lallante; July 3 2013 at 11:35:46 AM.

  3. #23
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    You know you can set the tracking cam at an angle to massively easy manual orbiting, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  4. #24
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    You know you can set the tracking cam at an angle to massively easy manual orbiting, right?
    No I didnt. In fact I was pretty certain you could not lock the angle of the camera relative to the ship (unless this is a new feature in the last ~6 months).

    OR are you talking about some wierd workaround involving tracking the ship you are orbitting using the new feature that keeps your ship in view - I can't imagine that using that view to orbit manually is easy (if its even possible)
    Last edited by Lallante; July 3 2013 at 12:12:11 PM.

  5. #25
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Tracking cam, set tracking onscreen position.
    Move it off-centre. Know how to toggle on tracking cam, you are now set.

    In a situation, click the thing you want to orbit.
    Now, double-click a point on your screen regularly as if to fly straight in that direction. The distance from the offset position will determine the radius of the orbit, changing the position will make you spiral in/out to the new orbit.
    P.S. The angle of the tracking camera offset will determine the plane of the orbit, not your clicking position onscreen, so you can set the plane once (probably just along the horizontal) and then just click anywhere p much.
    Literally rocket science.

    Try not to click anything else's bracket. Play with different offset positions, zooms, clicking frequency. As well as ship speed & agility.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; July 3 2013 at 02:04:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  6. #26
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    Tracking cam, set tracking onscreen position.
    Move it off-centre. Know how to toggle on tracking cam, you are now set.

    In a situation, click the thing you want to orbit.
    Now, double-click a point on your screen regularly as if to fly straight in that direction. The distance from the offset position will determine the radius of the orbit, changing the position will make you spiral in/out to the new orbit.
    P.S. The angle of the tracking camera offset will determine the plane of the orbit, not your clicking position onscreen, so you can set the plane once (probably just along the horizontal) and then just click anywhere p much.
    Literally rocket science.

    Try not to click anything else's bracket. Play with different offset positions, zooms, clicking frequency. As well as ship speed & agility.

    I can see how that would work in theory, but I remain to be convinced that its worth doing in practice or that its easy to stay in orbit at a set distance.

  7. #27
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Well why don't you do what I did on Sisi before posting that, and go test it.
    How is 'just not-frantically doubleclicking anywhere on the screen' hard compared to having to 'drag-rotate, doubleclick, repeat pretty damned quickly'?

    I don't have it set off-centre by default as I'm almost always in a BS and/or RR gang these days. If I were a solo nano/frig man, I'd expect otherwise.
    Also, IIRC the offset doesn't apply when selecting tracking cam from the Dscan pane, so you can still use that to focus dscanning to a tight angle while also having the ongrid behaviour differ.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; July 3 2013 at 06:47:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  8. #28
    Skjordr Longfang's Avatar
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    But what Lall is asking, and I am curious too, is why? I can see the advantage in kiting setups where you dont wan't to get slingshot into/out of range etc. and also doing it when you notice your target trying to gtfo for non-kiting stuff, but for standard orbiting, why bother?

    EDIT: Read the rest of the thread, which kinda answered it.
    Last edited by Skjordr Longfang; July 3 2013 at 06:53:32 PM.

  9. #29

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    Manual piloting is key during the lead up and follow up of an engagement. During the actual brawl more attention is paid to k@r, orbit and approach. The problem most people have is using the default orbit ranges. The key is testing your ship/fit/skills against being unwebbed/webbed/multi webbed. So maybe when your Veng is webbed you orbit @ 1500 with AB on. But when unwebbed you orbit @ 500m without AB.

    I would argue Neuts are just as important as webs for fighting smaller classes of ships. Being able to negate their ewar/dps/prop is a huge bonus.

    Also, I would add gang fighting as a nano boat is pure manual. Orbiting target A in a Vaga could easily end you up in someone's scram/web range if you're not paying attention. I work on flying "squares" around the primary while avoiding his buddies. The art of star bursting a gate is not lost on everyone :P
    Last edited by jonesbones; July 5 2013 at 05:01:12 PM.

  10. #30
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    The OP's point was that during a fight, the Eve AI for Orbit is retarded, if you get (un)webbed it'll take a minimal-transversal-path to the new sustainable orbit, which can be abused by your opponent. Being able to easily manually pilot an orbit negates this flaw, and with the camera thing, also allows you to easily spiral in & out safely.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  11. #31
    roigon's Avatar
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    I do quite a bit of frigate pvp and the only time I manual is when entering the engagement from range (i.e. positioning) or when k@R/orbit isn't doing what I want/need it to do. But it's extremely sporadic, and basically comes down to a few click here and there and then rehit orbit/k@r depending on what I fly. Getting a nos/injector cycle correct vs a neut, or managing heat/single-rep cycles is a bit more important then dicking around clicking in space.

    The most manualing I do is actually on fleet interceptors, especially in astroid belts or around stations or when there are many ships on grid and I have to avoid getting into scram range of any of them. This generally means choosing a fairly clear side of the enemy fleet and flying a circle to the side of the target. Sort of like a cowboy swinging a lasso but the lasso circle is my trajectory if that makes sense.

    Then there is also the case when fighting smaller/faster class ships in brawling range. Using manualing to adjust my trajectory to match theirs to bring down transversal. But it's really a niche case tbh.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by roigon View Post
    I do quite a bit of frigate pvp and the only time I manual is when entering the engagement from range (i.e. positioning) or when k@R/orbit isn't doing what I want/need it to do. But it's extremely sporadic, and basically comes down to a few click here and there and then rehit orbit/k@r depending on what I fly. Getting a nos/injector cycle correct vs a neut, or managing heat/single-rep cycles is a bit more important then dicking around clicking in space.

    The most manualing I do is actually on fleet interceptors, especially in astroid belts or around stations or when there are many ships on grid and I have to avoid getting into scram range of any of them. This generally means choosing a fairly clear side of the enemy fleet and flying a circle to the side of the target. Sort of like a cowboy swinging a lasso but the lasso circle is my trajectory if that makes sense.

    Then there is also the case when fighting smaller/faster class ships in brawling range. Using manualing to adjust my trajectory to match theirs to bring down transversal. But it's really a niche case tbh.
    I'm the same. Orbit at 1.5k has served me well, so vOv

  13. #33
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