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Thread: The webbing trick, or stop dieing to frigates you noob.

  1. #1
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    The webbing trick, or stop dieing to frigates you noob.

    Havnt seen a thread about this yet and it is pretty much one of the most basic manual (i.e not f1-8, hope) piloting tricks there is.

    So lets say your in a cruiser/bc/bs and there is this annoying frigate with a ab and its under your guns, despite you webbing it so what to do to not die a emberassing death:

    Note requires a web to work and it only works vs terrible (i.e 99.999% of eve ) people who use the orbit button once they caught a crusier/bc/bs.

    So what to do? Due to how the orbit command works your ship basicely settles in a orbit that is the wider the faster your ship it, you can exploit that.
    So you start the fight with a web on your opponent, (you should ideally have transversal speed on your overview) what you do now is you deactivate your guns and then a few seconds later your web, the ai of eve will now make the suddenly much faster frigate ajust to its new orbitting distance and fly straight away from you as fast as possible to get to the new range it needs to orbit, thus lowering transversal for a few seconds to 0.

    So once transversal is low enough you activate your guns resulting in a perfect hit, this also works in the returning way, so if you activate the web again the frigate will approach you again to settle in the, induced by its now lower topspeed, smaller orbit, getting transversal to 0 again, if you now shoot again you will get a perfect hit off again, rinse and repeat till the frigate is dead.

    Obviously doesnt work vs people who manually orbit. Two webs increase the effect.

    (for the people who already know how this works, have i forgotten anything?)
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  2. #2
    prometheus's Avatar
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    This isn't really new, and doesn't really work that well against slower frigates (ie: AFs).
    Versus faster ships (ie: AB interceptors/t1/faction frigates), this works great since their sudden speed boost will fling them outwards, but AFs aren't exactly speedy enough to falter when AB fit.
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  3. #3
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Oh i know its old and well known, but i havnt seen a thread about it so i thought id share it with the few who did not know.
    Last edited by W0lf Crendraven; April 24 2013 at 03:48:00 PM.
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  4. #4
    root's Avatar
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    It's so obvious, the same happens when you orbit and turn probmod on/off.

    ... But i still did not know of this
    In eve you learn something new every day. Thanks for sharing.
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  5. #5
    tHornton's Avatar
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    thanks now i wont die to frigs anymore ty !!!!!

  6. #6
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tHornton View Post
    thanks now i wont die to frigs anymore ty !!!!!


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  7. #7
    ry ry's Avatar
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    I hit keep at range with the web, probably doesn't make much difference in practice but it feels like it extends the tiny window to blap slightly.

    Dunno how the good players maintain manual 0m orbits and still micro modules though. Fucking furious clicking in space and keeping an eye on transversal leaves very little time to do other stuff
    Last edited by ry ry; April 25 2013 at 07:21:07 AM. Reason: 'ormits' isnt a word, which is a shame.

  8. #8
    prometheus's Avatar
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    Fairly off topic;

    For 98% of situations, a combination of orbit/k@r/approach will be all that's required. Maybe a click here and there to change trajectory, but that's all.

    Manual orbiting is very much overrated and really only serves two main purposes;
    1. slingshotting to get tackle on kiting targets
    2. kiting/running away in x direction (the latter can be done via aligning since there's usually a moon somewhere)
    For nearly everything else, those 3 buttons (and the right-clicks therein) will serve you better.

    If you've overshot your target, manual piloting probably isn't going to get you under guns much faster (unless say frigate vs bs).
    Technically if you're operating outside of warp range, that'd manual piloting. But that doesn't achieve much.

    For everything other than the most niche of niche situations, manual piloting doesn't give you an edge any more than having properly set buttons.

    Elitists will say otherwise, naturally.
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    Yankunytjatjara's Avatar
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  10. #10
    Lady Spank's Avatar
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    Well, obviously manual piloting is required for positioning.
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  11. #11
    ry ry's Avatar
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    Manual piloting is one thing, and keeping transversal up at range, spiralling in to tackle stuff or slingshotting somebody are all pretty straightforward, but the whole 'Manual Orbiting gives you godlike transversal' thing bothers me.

    It bothers me because i've tried it loads of times in loads of different ships and manually sustaining an effective zero-meter, or sub-500, orbit means you quite literally need to be turning the camera and spam-clicking next to the ship you're trying to out-track to stop your own transversal dropping dramatically when you've flown past their bounding box. Not to mention the hilarious lack of geometry on ships, the accidental bumping if they're actually moving and the 0.001 picosecond window to react to things before your transversal drops again.

    Basically i don't think it's even remotely viable, let alone used successfully.

    I assume its some kind of fake l337 tactic pvpers told new players for their own amusement, and it's proliferated by nobody questioning whether it's a fucking ridiculous idea or not. I'm really bad at eve though.
    Last edited by ry ry; April 25 2013 at 12:17:15 PM.

  12. #12
    Lady Spank's Avatar
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    The main thing I use manual flying for outside of on-grid positioning is when I want to fly in the same direction as a particular ship. I use it to mitigate THEIR orbiting and improve my tracking. Once you get under 500m it's not worth bothering with 'to get under their guns' unless they are significantly faster than you.

    There are three ranges where manual piloting helps. Only two are worth your time caring about, and you almost certainly already use anyway...

    [1] On-grid positioning: Clearly the most valuable use of manual piloting. Setting up engagements, drawing off bads, separating gangs etc etc.

    [2] Approach: Manual 'spirals' rather than flying straight at targets. Particularly for small ships approaching larger ones where it will make a significant difference. This is how you chase down Tier3 BC's in frigates. Slingshots and other interceptor techniques fit in here too. Key to successfully setting up range in your favour or for catching tricky fast kite ships.

    Once you get [3] up close and personal, most of that manual piloting elitism stuff is a load of crap. Like I said I only ever use this to mitigate someone's orbit.

    I am also terrible at this game.
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  13. #13
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ry ry View Post
    I assume its some kind of fake l337 tactic pvpers told new players for their own amusement, and it's proliferated by nobody questioning whether it's a fucking ridiculous idea or not. I'm really bad at eve though.
    There was a bug where being at 0km calculated the transv wrong iirc.
    Also I've manually piloted a no-proping Harb under the guns of a Pulse Nightmare while webbed by it, for long enough that he ran out of 800s to tank with. There are very rare opportunities where you can pull it off, but indeed your tracking will be terrible, you need to deal with drones, and prior to the camera changes you had to keep turning that too.

  14. #14

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    I'll do manual piloting for brawling for any sized ship for short time periods. I've even done it on my huge sig scorpion to equalize my tank when I was getting hammered (not an exciting clip): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pYZYgrkE1U

    The web/reweb trick can work against most manual piloting people but it takes a few more steps.
    1. Fly in a direction
    1a. If they are orbiting you from above your ship to below then turn 90 degrees (I like to pitch up or down as people seem to have more of an issue with that)
    2. Deactivate web and wait for them to pick up a little speed (against bads this may be enough right here).
    2a. If needed try to turn your ship so in a second or two you'll both be moving directly away from one another (opposite velocities)
    3. When your velocity and theirs are in near complete opposite directions reapply the web, their agility will go to shit and they'll coast out a bit
    4. Get a few shots in
    5. As they start to charge back in deactivate web
    6. When they're almost inside your guns turn towards the way they came from
    7. Repeat 3-6

    If they're good enough to keep their velocity near constant through the toggle webbing then you're screwed but its very rare for me to see someone counter it during a practice session when they are told it is coming much less on a roam.

    Normally I'll use this to break away when I'm scrammed and webbed as about half the time I can get the average pilot out past 10 km with this if we're dealing with only a single step of difference (BS to cruiser, cruiser to frigate).
    Last edited by xanral; April 25 2013 at 02:21:06 PM.

  15. #15
    prometheus's Avatar
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    Battleships (an BS gun) are something else entirely.
    if they don't have a tracking bonus, or two webs, you can usually eek under their guns. You don't need to manually pilot to do this.

    There USED to be a bug where being really close fucked with the tracking, but that really isn't the case anymore.

    Getting under medium tracking (while fully tackled and not ab fit) is significantly more difficult, but still doesnt need to be done *manually*.

    Fighting multiple targets is pretty much moot.
    you're either A. running/kiting which falls under that 5%, which isn't exactly manual, or B. You're mobility is out of your control (tackled) and the only manual thing is deciding who to shoot next.
    Last edited by prometheus; April 25 2013 at 02:26:28 PM.
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  16. #16
    Yankunytjatjara's Avatar
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    Well, no, there's positioning to split them, but yeah I also don't manual much when brawling. Xanral above seems to say he does though. Any video?
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  17. #17

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    I linked a short clip in my post as an example? The Rokh in the clip had 2 TEs but started his de-aggression right as the clip was ending.

    I only do it for 10-15 second little bursts. I've used it on a few 100MN AB brawl cruisers with the AB on to negate a ton of dps while still staying in range of my target (zig-zag path across a target at a 90 degree angle to another enemy). Again though that's for just a short burst.

    I think I've only been in one situation where I was manual piloting in brawling for over a minute straight simply because its so rare to get that fight where A) its needed and B) the guy has no buddies landing on top of you.

    Edit - I see manual brawling as being useful even as a gunboat for that window when you're reloading a cap charge to boost or your ASB/AAR is in a reload. Dropping dps on you from 1/2 max to 1/4 max for 20 seconds can be the difference between finishing a reload to turn your tank back on and warping away in your pod. As far as "LOL I'm invulnerable thanks to manual orbit" in actual play where orbit at 500 meters wouldn't work nearly as well I've found to be very rare for me and those I play with at least.
    Last edited by xanral; April 25 2013 at 03:17:55 PM.

  18. #18
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Battleships (an BS gun) are something else entirely.
    if they don't have a tracking bonus, or two webs, you can usually eek under their guns. You don't need to manually pilot to do this.
    Nightmare has a tracking bonus and had a web though, to be clear.

  19. #19
    prometheus's Avatar
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    Nightmares also use Lasers (megapulse)
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  20. #20
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    I ususally manual pilot in 90% of all of my fights, but i usually fly kiting ships where you have to manually pilot (especially for oversized ab ones), aligning to stuff is good and nice but mostly useless in most of the fights so you have to fly manually. I only use orbit when im fighting something slow, which is alone and has shit agility.

    For brawling orbitting manually is better but so hard that usually you dont have to unless your opponent does the webbing trick or he tracks you in a nomral orbit.

    In short, in combat while brawling a same class type ship (frig vs frig/crusier vs crusier...) or a bigger dumb ship are the only ever cases where you should pilot non manually.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

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