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Thread: [TMA] PvP cloaky (solo) dualboxing

  1. #1

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    [TMA] PvP cloaky (solo) dualboxing

    For the purpose of this post, assume my combat main has only level 4 probing skills, but the ability to fly all T3 strat cruisers with high subsystem skills, all Recons at level 5, all small and medium weapons at T2 levels with excellent support skills, plus all e-war skills (and subskills) at 4 or better. The alt is a perfect prober (+ Virtues) with Covops 5, Recon 5, good ECM skills, all races of ships but limited weaponry abilities (think T1 for most everything) and only the Tengu as a T3 option (but I'm willing to take a month to remedy this). Both characters can fly competent bombers.

    I am currently hunting lowsec and wormholes with a neutral Covops probing alt and a Proteus (or Pilgrim to mix things up sometimes) as my DPS, but I am considering "outing" my alt to have him join in on some kills for added combat ability. All ships must have the ability to warp cloaked. The obvious choice would be a Falcon alt for added protection, but I'm wondering if there's any other way to go. I can dual box but not dual screen (only one monitor) so I have concerns about any combo that requires too much micromanagement once the s**t hits the fan. I'm very happy with the Proteus for my main, but am open to other suggestions if the combination of the two ships lets me take on tougher targets, or even better if it lets me take on multiple targets at once.

    Rapier on the alt interests me, but it seems a bit wasted with a scram/web Proteus already stopping targets in their tracks. Pilgrim on the alt interests me, but has to get just as close as the Proteus to do anything, and thus adds little to the GTFO options. Do I skip the Proteus? Will switching to a kiting combo require too much screen-switching? What am I missing?

  2. #2
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    I, too am interested, since I have a perfect-probing alt with a few months worth of sub that can conceivably fit in a recon, except I haven't decided which
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

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  3. #3
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Loki is a decent choice because of selectable damage types and the only real alt ship that fits your needs is a Falcon *shrug*
    Actually an '06.

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  4. #4
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Nueting/probing legion+gank prot?

  5. #5
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Any Pilgrim/neuting or even DPS alt will have to be within tackle range too which is a major liability when dualboxing. Especially with one monitor.
    Actually an '06.

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  6. #6
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    With you being on just one monitor I'd highly suggest not putting your alt on grid. That said, links wouldn't be a bad idea. A link Loki or a link Legion would actually work quite well for your purposes.

    IF you were to have a second monitor, a RR Proteus + RR neut Legion wouldn't be a bad idea, but since you lack a second monitor I'd suggest against that idea.

    EDIT: For those who do have two monitors, or if you(OP) want to try it even though it's a bad idea here are my two fits for it:
    [Legion, Helper]
    Legion Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
    Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
    Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
    Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
    Legion Propulsion - Wake Limiter

    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Damage Control II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Reactor Control Unit II
    Reactor Control Unit II

    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
    Warp Disruptor II
    Stasis Webifier II

    Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
    Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
    Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
    Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
    Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
    Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher
    Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


    [Proteus, RR DPS]
    Proteus Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
    Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
    Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
    Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
    Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier

    1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
    Damage Control II
    Armor Explosive Hardener II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

    10MN Microwarpdrive II
    Warp Scrambler II
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

    Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
    Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
    Heavy Electron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
    Heavy Electron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
    Heavy Electron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
    Heavy Electron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
    Heavy Electron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M

    Medium Ancillary Current Router I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


    Legion probes, lands first. Get as close as you can to your target(ideally within 12k) and warp your Proteus to your Legion. Decloak the Proteus as it lands. Incoming sleeper + carebear DPS should be handlable by your RR. Skip Drakes unless you've got a lot of time and steel balls. Any T3 running anoms is easy pray, 'Canes will take some time but die pretty easily too. You WILL die to RR ball Tengus though so C2 and C3 should be your target holes.
    Last edited by Cue1*; March 5 2013 at 03:04:55 AM.

  7. #7
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Either two of these:

    [Tengu, cloaky 100mn]
    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II
    Ballistic Control System II

    Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
    Large Shield Extender II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    EM Ward Field II

    Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
    Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
    Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
    Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
    Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

    Medium Ancillary Current Router I
    Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
    Medium Ancillary Current Router I

    Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
    Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
    Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
    Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
    Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

    Take on and use orbit at 50km, fly the other one manually. Is basicely one 100mnt engu with added dps, would nedd a loki alt aswell tho.

    Or:

    [Proteus, Pvp proteus]
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Damage Control II
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Medium Armor Repairer II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
    True Sansha Medium Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800

    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
    Core Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
    Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

    Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
    Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

    Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
    Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
    Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
    Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
    Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


    Warrior II x5
    Warrior II x5
    Hobgoblin II x5
    Hornet EC-300 x5

    with this:

    [Rapier, New Setup 3]
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Damage Control II
    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
    Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
    Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
    Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

    Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
    Expanded Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I
    Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
    Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

    Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
    Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I


    Vespa EC-600 x3
    Hornet EC-300 x1

    Web,damp, td target to nothing, then sith still at 40km and kill him. If your tackled use all your ecm drones.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  8. #8
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    tldr; falcon.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  9. #9
    Meridith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponk View Post
    tldr; falcon.

  10. #10
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    I always liked armour rail Arazu + torps bomber. Bit hard to fully use the bomber's no-decloak-locking-delay to tackle & then run/rewarp to range without risk these days, but they're cheap and can pour out dps. Rapier is also very nice for reliable tackling but can't keep the bomber safe as easily as bonused damps can, probably better with arties as support for the T3. Only the Proteus will do decent dps as a cloaky. IIRC the neut Legion is at least better than the pilgrim in raw neuting, tank and things like RR, but basically I found the armour Curse far superior as a backup ship than the other recons. Never did use a Falcon, and wouldn't now damps got even better.

    I guess 1 advantage I always had was I could use the Cov Ops to probe & get first tackle, shortly followed by the Proteus, and then reship the prober 1 safe jump away into any perfect counter: Ashimmu/Curse/Bomber/Cane. I didn't do the probing bonus on the Proteus because I wanted all the tackle range I could get to avoid being kited in more stand-up fights. It can't go without the web either, unless rapier support.

    The thing is, w-space is very different to lowsec, you hardly ever need bonused combats to find where people are, thus can often role tackle Proteus + support either cloaky or waiting on your in-hole, and usually they don't even want to jump in & risk being seen until you're decloaking something on the target's grid anyway, so no giant loss for not being cloaky.

    Oh and remember Curse neuts & TDs are a potent GTFO option. And put some form of RR drones in Proteus & Amarr recon/T3s drone bays.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; March 5 2013 at 09:46:16 AM.

  11. #11

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    Thanks for the replies and suggestions. In no particular order, my responses/concerns are as follows:

    Armor Arazu plus Torps Bomber - Nobody has bonused probes. Not a big deal for a pinpoint on a target, but sifting sigs and finding holes will be slower. Granted the one character's Virtues may make up for this to an extent, but if I put him on the Bomber his DPS is gimped due to the need for CPU upgrades, and if I put him on the Arazu I am down to 2 highs for DPS (or only one with a smartbomb for dealing with drones). Overall though, even with the gimp, I am probably still spitting out more DPS than a lone Proteus, and with arguably better (e-war based) protection than simply a large amount of EHP such as on my current solo DPS/attack Proteus. I have some concerns about cap management and speed as well due to my one monitor limitation. Might need both ships to be AB-fit, plus a faction web on the Arazu since most PvE ships are AB-fitted and a scram alone won't slow them down. Also, T3's with long lock ranges won't be damped enough to save the Arazu from incoming damage even inside faction web range. Concerns aside, this may the strongest contender so far for having both ships on grid from the beginning of the fight, and cheaper than my Proteus alone.

    Dual 100MN Tengus - Interesting but expensive. Also, Ventures and Blockade Runners can get away due to the lack of warp disruption strength. Also, dual 4 launcher Tengus with 2 BC's each do less damage than my Proteus alone, at twice the cost. Range is obviously better, but I crammed a neut on my Proteus and these Tengus won't break a strong active tank.

    RR Legion plus RR Proteus - I agree with you that this would be tough on a single monitor.

    Proteus plus Rapier - Don't like the unbonused damps on the Rapier, and a single stab lets the target escape.

    Link Loki or Link Legion - Adds either EHP/rep or tackle/GTFO. Both are obviously good things. Not convinved either significantly expands my engagement envelope, as in a Proteus I am already getting bonused tackle and nice armor and in scram range if I get pinned down I am screwed with links or without, but this keeps the alt safe and increases the abilities of a solo DPS ship.

    Falcon - Fuck. I wanted to not be a Falcon-alt ECM loser. But I guess there is a reason they are so ubiquitous. This appears to be the best option. I hate EVE.

  12. #12
    Donor sharptoast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GV View Post
    Falcon - Fuck. I wanted to not be a Falcon-alt ECM loser. But I guess there is a reason they are so ubiquitous. This appears to be the best option. I hate EVE.
    C/D ECM Tengu?

  13. #13

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    Same general idea I suppose. ECM strength may be preferable to range for my purposes, though the Tengu could at least add some DPS to the equation. Something to consider.

  14. #14
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GV View Post
    Link Loki or Link Legion - Adds either EHP/rep or tackle/GTFO. Both are obviously good things. Not convinved either significantly expands my engagement envelope, as in a Proteus I am already getting bonused tackle and nice armor and in scram range if I get pinned down I am screwed with links or without, but this keeps the alt safe and increases the abilities of a solo DPS ship.
    Decrease your unlinked tank then. If you've got enough without links, match your tank now to your linked tank, increase DPS. More magstabs or bigger guns or something.

    the thing from the buzz buzz

  15. #15
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Fed navy plates, etc.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  16. #16

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    Just ran the numbers in EFT on a maxed Mindlinked Legion with a gank Proteus, very nice. But then I realized - :EvE:! They're gonna nerf offgrid boosting within the next year, probably right after I finish all the skill training to do it properly. God I hate this game.

    (I do realize that a 200km on-grid orbit is doable with a little setup time, but still...)

  17. #17
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GV View Post
    Just ran the numbers in EFT on a maxed Mindlinked Legion with a gank Proteus, very nice. But then I realized - :EvE:! They're gonna nerf offgrid boosting within the next year, probably right after I finish all the skill training to do it properly. God I hate this game.

    (I do realize that a 200km on-grid orbit is doable with a little setup time, but still...)
    Depends on what you have already, plus, there's no confirmation that they're nerfing off grid boosting, just suspensions and a suggestion. The skill for links themselves will take a month and change, maybe another month for the T3? Worth noting that even if they do nerf offgrid boosting, I'd be surprised if they didn't make ongrid T3s decent.

  18. #18
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    They've confirmed it, they're just not sure how to do it yet
    Actually an '06.

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  19. #19
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    They've confirmed it, they're just not sure how to do it yet
    Link? All I've seen is Fozzie saying he wanted to, but wasn't sure when or how.

    the thing from the buzz buzz

  20. #20
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    The most certain thing is that the 5%/level of T3s is going to cease to be.

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