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Thread: [PVP] Stabber

  1. #41
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Tyrus fit is better then mine, but a bit more expensive. Oams is the better anti cruiser ship and is similar (a bit worse imo) at fighting frigs, both are valid options.
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  2. #42
    prometheus's Avatar
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    Code:
    [Stabber, Standard]
    Damage Control II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Reactor Control Unit II
    
    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
    Warp Disruptor II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II
    
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
    
    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
    Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
    
    Warrior II x5
    I think this is best compromise for the Stabber.
    315 @ 20km compared to 323, but with a little more hp (esp against barrage)

    Needs a 1% implant to fit.


    Alternatively, this kinda replaces the Arty Rupture as well (needs 1% pg)
    Code:
    [Stabber, Standard [Artillery]]
    Damage Control II
    Reactor Control Unit II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    
    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
    Warp Disruptor II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II
    
    650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
    
    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Ancillary Current Router I
    
    
    Warrior II x5
    Last edited by prometheus; June 3 2013 at 01:15:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Prom is right and you're dumb.
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  3. #43
    xin jiang's Avatar
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    tried it out, the micromanaging it very fun with all the different weapons i have

  4. #44

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    [NEW Stabber, kiter 220 mk2]
    Damage Control II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II

    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
    Warp Disruptor II
    Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
    Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


    Warrior II x5



    This have performance very close to prom's fit, but not as weird. Module costs and char skills will determine which gets used here.

  5. #45
    prometheus's Avatar
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    What's weird about it?
    3 buttons to push instead of 2

    EVE has spoiled you kids with your "grouping"
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    Prom is right and you're dumb.
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  6. #46
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    'Cause some special snowflake just wouldnt take his stabber fits here (yes im party guilty for arguing), so to clean up one of the bettr threads in this forum (the how to solo one), missed a few posts but this was the gist of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel47 View Post
    [Stabber, diesel's Kite Improvement]
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Tracking Enhancer II

    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
    Large Shield Extender II
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Warp Disruptor II

    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M

    Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
    Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


    Warrior II x5



    10 less Dps,
    Better tracking,
    More tank,
    20mil cheaper.
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Not worth it, cap is to bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel47 View Post
    My fit is superior, replace the shield rig with a SMC and you get the same cap life.

    But even then, 1 min and 30 seconds of everything running is plenty of cap.
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel47 View Post
    My fit is superior, replace the shield rig with a SMC and you get the same cap life.

    But even then, 1 min and 30 seconds of everything running is plenty of cap.
    No it really is not, if you do that the cap is still worse, the tank is worse then as well and you still do less dps 8so it then is bad in all that matters). Also, where did you get the idea that 1min30 is plenty? Unless you do something like :highsecpvp: (which i doubt, your fits arent perfect but they arent god awefull) 1min30 is terrible, there is no way to fight any kind of gang in that which is btw the same reason vagas dont fit invuls (and cynabals with invuls are failfit).

    And again, take it to the stabber thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel47 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel47 View Post
    My fit is superior, replace the shield rig with a SMC and you get the same cap life.

    But even then, 1 min and 30 seconds of everything running is plenty of cap.
    No it really is not, if you do that the cap is still worse, the tank is worse then as well and you still do less dps 8so it then is bad in all that matters). Also, where did you get the idea that 1min30 is plenty? Unless you do something like :highsecpvp: (which i doubt, your fits arent perfect but they arent god awefull) 1min30 is terrible, there is no way to fight any kind of gang in that which is btw the same reason vagas dont fit invuls (and cynabals with invuls are failfit).

    And again, take it to the stabber thread.
    Ah, so you get to post fits and argue but everybody else has to take it to the stabber thread?

    With your fit, you pay 20 extra mil on a tech 1 cruiser to gain a whopping: 5 seconds of more cap, and 8 more DPS, worse tracking, less tank, worse resist distribution (0% em, 20% thermal, just asking to be raped by scorch)

    two ancillary current routers is fail fit mate, esp with all the poor stats you gain by using them. If you are really that worried about 5 seconds of cap, take the 20mil you save by fitting smart and buy yourself an implant or two.
    Its not 8 seconds of cap, its 30, and if you use a semi on your fit you now have worse cap and worse tank and worse dps, simply not worth it. Its a cheaper fit yes (but there are better cheap fits), but it is in no way "Superior".
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  7. #47
    Mr Marram's Avatar
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    Quoting the same argument 4 times, very productive.
    Last edited by Mr Marram; July 12 2013 at 09:13:17 AM.


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  8. #48
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    After trawling through all the T1 cruiser threads all night I think I'm gonna settle on the Stabber, for now. There's a few fits given above that I'm gonna try. In the Thorax thread someone was advocating the use of a dual-prop setup, so I decided to see if I could come up with one for the Stabber. All I've done is adapt the general setups from the last page or two:

    [Stabber, Wiz Kite 425s+Dual-Prop]
    Damage Control II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Tracking Enhancer II

    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
    10MN Afterburner II
    Warp Disruptor II
    Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile

    Medium Ancillary Current Router I
    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


    Warrior II x5


    Max skills give 362/406 paper DPS, 3.3+32km range, 16,626 (omni) EHP, MWD 2435/3471 m/s, AB 922/1202 m/s, and the cap lasts 1m58s with the MWD and everything running or is cap-stable with the AB and everything running.

    So is this fail or win? And why?

  9. #49
    Smuggo
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    I think you will struggle a bit with hitting frigates, particularly AFs, with the 425s and you don't gain much else from them and compromise in other areas. Also, dual prop is not that handy with such a flimsy tank as if you get scrammed you are likely dead in no time and lack of tracking bonus and horrible agility means trying to orbit with AB and out-track is not going to happen.

  10. #50
    wizardmatt's Avatar
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    Ok that makes sense, thanks for the reply o7

  11. #51
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    *edit
    Last edited by Stoffl; August 8 2013 at 03:03:26 PM.
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  12. #52
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_getter View Post
    [NEW Stabber, kiter 220 mk2]
    Damage Control II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II

    Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
    Warp Disruptor II
    Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
    Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
    Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


    Warrior II x5
    Minus the rigs, this is pretty close to what I used three years ago to tell intys to fuck off.
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  13. #53
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post

    What counts with a stabber is dps at range, not tank (its primary target is frigate tackle of gangs), so 425s triple gyro/te fits are a lot better then yours, this isnt the stabber fit thread though so i wont go into detail or response to that again, take it to the correct thread
    Since you only have 1 kill in the Stabber since the cruiser buff, I'm going to go ahead and assume that, as usual, you're talking out of your ass.


    Yeah, if all you want to do is kite around and do shit DPS to slower ships until you get forced off, go ahead and fit 425s and range mods.

    However, a more effective use of the Stabber is ducking in and out of point blank range. You can plink at ships from range while you're kiting around, but you have to be opportunistic and separate a ship from his buddies. From there, you dive in and tear them apart, then gtfo. This takes a lot more skill than clicking "Orbit at 20km" and hitting F1, but you can do a lot more with my tactics. My fit uses 220s for better tracking and to free up fitting for more EHP.


    EDIT: This is a good example of what I'm talking about.

    We tackled the Hurricane in a belt, which drew the blob [they had more ships than on the BR, we didn't lose anything so not a full BR] that they had off the station. The 'cane was at 0, and most of their ships warped in on top to help. The three Tornados and Ashimmu warped in at 100km. Seeing this, I broke off of the fight at 0 and looped around to the Tornados. From here I tore them apart, as did my gangmates when they arrived. The Ashimmu died last, he tackled me as soon as I got on top of the Tornados and I managed to survive with 30% structure as we finished the Ashimmu.
    Last edited by OrangeAfroMan; August 27 2013 at 06:17:00 PM.
    Actually an '06.

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  14. #54
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Nope, THAT was an example of you beeing dumb and getting tackled by an ashimmu, a higher dps version of the stabber would actually have been better at ripping apart the nados (that were meta arty fit ... ).

    The point is that a speed fit caracal has more ehp, better dps from 20km onward, hits frigs up close, can put dps out at 40km and is in general way more usefull (is 100m slower and has way better agility, or pretty much the same speed with a little bit more in terms of agility if you fit ods), as can be seen by the choice of ships of the people who flew with you. Your fit basicely creates a inferior caracal. Its bad, it doesnt play to the stabbers strenghts, a kiting thorax outdamages it at 20km, its not worth using. What you do is fit tank on a ship that has no business beeing tanky.


    Not that it is important on how it performs in fleets, no sane person would think its a good fleet ship.



    What it mainly will be doing is fighting gangs or close range cruisers. Its main target are frigates, its main weakness is getting tackled (mostly by a frigate), the stabber should therefore maximise its damage output at kiting range and minimize the time it needs to kill frigates to avoid getting blobbed/tackled. Tank isnt very important, at 20km no frigate will do dangerous damage and you have no business beeing in damaging range of any cruiser that can kill you at 20km (it would still kill most cruisers you fit can kill at 20km, and lose to the same (omen/cracal/arty rupture/...).

    Stabbers dont die because they didnt have enough tank, they die because they get pinned down.

    The only real advantage the stabber has over a caracal is the fact that its dps is higher (and in parts, better applied). You give that up, making it a crap fit.
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  15. #55
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    If all you do is kite in a Stabber, then yes, it is worse than a Caracal.

    That is why you fit enough EHP/tracking/DPS to actually brawl and escape.

    If you were just kiting about with the Stabber in the scenario I posted, you wouldn't have killed the nados fast enough and they would have had support coming to help them, at which point you'd just be forced off with no kills, rather than quickly killing the majority of their DPS and causing them to panic and scatter. Aggression pays.


    Either way, I guess we'll have to take all of your arguments at face value because you have zero experience in them.
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  16. #56
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    (and vs arty nados tank harfly matters as long as you can surivive 1 volley, higher dps is all that matter there).


    You main argument is that you shouldnt kite with a stabber but instead you should semibrawl in it. I dont buy that, not one bit. A armor omen is way better at that (as is a sheild thorax, that cabn actually load void and go man mode). And a caracal is better too.


    Edit: let me rephrase, "Your fit sucks as a kiter and as a semikiter there are a lot of ship that are better at that role then a stabber".
    Last edited by W0lf Crendraven; August 27 2013 at 07:01:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  17. #57
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    (and vs arty nados tank harfly matters as long as you can surivive 1 volley, higher dps is all that matter there).


    You main argument is that you shouldnt kite with a stabber but instead you should semibrawl in it. I dont buy that, not one bit. A armor omen is way better at that (as is a sheild thorax, that cabn actually load void and go man mode). And a caracal is better too.


    Edit: let me rephrase, "Your fit sucks as a kiter and as a semikiter there are a lot of ship that are better at that role then a stabber".
    Obviously the nados weren't the biggest issue, it was the Ashimmu and mass of other ships with it that were the issue. Like I said, we didn't lose a ship so no proper battle report.

    Omen will have massive tracking issues at close range, is locked to EM/Therm and if you armor fit it you get EHP or speed/agility, pick one. Shield Thorax is locked to Kin/Therm, comes out with only a little more DPS (easily compensated by selectable damage types in the Stabber), is about 20% slower, and reliant on cap to shoot.
    Actually an '06.

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  18. #58

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    If I want cost efficiency:
    I wouldn't fly a Stabber in a Caracal Gang since Caracals have better synergy while stabber just doesn't fit and is not as powerful overall.

    However if I am for some reason flying a stabber, I'd wouldn't fly glass cannons. In a Caracal gang it is obvious that the stabber is the low ehp, low range, high dps ship and dps would logically be focused on it and thus the first forced out of dps range/dead if any dps is being applied at all. (if it isn't, you are winning so hard that it doesn't matter) The gang isn't exactly vulnerable to frigs with many Caracals already. In a gang it is the general performance of the ship that matters as you can't always setup in your ideal tactical situation nor should you just bugger off because a caracal starts shooting at you and DC2 adds to ship power far more then a post nerf TE.

    If a stabber is flown with a kite Omen gang, known for generally higher dps and worst tanks a long range fit makes more sense, though other ships is probably still better then a stabber.

    Then again, if people always the fly the most efficient choice, this game wouldn't work.

  19. #59
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Efficiency in that regard doesn't really apply to EVE, there's too much variability.
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  20. #60

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    TBH if your flying a Stabber in a Caracal (RLML) gang your best use would be fitting a scram + neuts. That way you can peel tackle off the Caracals and dive in to hard tackle larger stuff etc etc.

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