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  1. #22741
    mewninn's Avatar
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    If Ireland's HR yuppies went overboard that's really their problem, not mine.

  2. #22742
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    If Ireland's HR yuppies went overboard that's really their problem, not mine.
    In a way it's their own fault. They let in the tech companies and profited handsomely by being their tax haven, now they will pay the price.

  3. #22743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Almost as if no, not everyone does, and it's why this is a thing in the first place.
    That is why I said anyone 'can'. There is a minority who don't, the majority do believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Someone who supports institutional racism, and what's more, the vote suppression of black people primarily in the south of the US, where a majority of them live. This is the modern GOP.

    Here. Have an African American's perspective on people like Ben Carson. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...elusional.html
    Im pretty sure someone like Ben Carson doesn't support institutional racism, this Uncle Tom character you proclaim to exist doesn't outside of fairy tales. The article you linked is more about politics and less about race.

  4. #22744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    If Ireland's HR yuppies went overboard that's really their problem, not mine.
    In a way it's their own fault. They let in the tech companies and profited handsomely by being their tax haven, now they will pay the price.
    I think Ireland is more vulnerable to it because they skipped a few steps and went from an agrarian nation to a knowledge economy hub in less than 2 generations.

    But any place that lets in the giants will have this problem. Like every city's economy is now propped up by some combination of finance, tech, and real estate.

  5. #22745
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Almost as if no, not everyone does, and it's why this is a thing in the first place.
    That is why I said anyone 'can'. There is a minority who don't, the majority do believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Someone who supports institutional racism, and what's more, the vote suppression of black people primarily in the south of the US, where a majority of them live. This is the modern GOP.

    Here. Have an African American's perspective on people like Ben Carson. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...elusional.html
    Im pretty sure someone like Ben Carson doesn't support institutional racism, this Uncle Tom character you proclaim to exist doesn't outside of fairy tales. The article you linked is more about politics and less about race.
    He’s in Trumps admin. Of course he is supporting racism.
    meh

  6. #22746
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    Believe you can have an honest arguement with Meester lol.

  7. #22747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    https://unherd.com/2020/07/will-irel...ke-wave/?=frlh



    Talk to an educated Irish person in a global city today, and you will quickly discover that they hold the twin ideologies of post-Celtic Tiger Ireland: a vague sentimental remnant of the Irish ethno-nationalism of the revolutionary period and the internationalist and multicultural open society values of Google.

    Point out that these are contradictory in any way, like mentioning Ireland’s role as an international tax haven or asking why there are so many Irish nationalists living in London, Berlin and San Francisco and so few living in Dublin, and you will be met with defensive anger.

    As a former colony, historically unsullied by the sins of slavery and imperialism, Ireland’s national identity has been largely free of the culture of pathological self-hatred found across most of the liberal West today. An uncomplicated sense of national pride has remained the default, even and sometimes especially on the political Left. But all of that is about to change.

    “Toppling statues is just the beginning”, ran a recent Irish Times headline, if the goal is “How to make Irish culture less racist.” As self-flagellating stories about the Irish public’s racism are set to now become a daily part of life, Ireland’s elites can breathe a sigh of relief. Any populist pressure they sensed brewing while overseeing a deeply economically unequal society with skyrocketing homelessness, rents and outward youth migration can now be replaced with an imported moral narrative that turns the spotlight around on the reactionary masses who must, in the name of equality, learn to think of themselves as privileged.
      Spoiler:
    While educated Irish young people in Dublin copied the Black Lives Matter protests from America, our culturally progressive and economically Thatcherite Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, recently singled out the statue of Irish Republican Sean Russell as a problematic target. Russell fought in the War of Independence and died trying to secure arms from Germany in 1940.

    Wrongly thinking that historical facts could ever stand a chance against the wrecking ball of the current international woke cultural revolution, some Republicans correctly pointed out that he was not doing so out of any allegiance to Nazism, having tried to secure arms from any nations that might give them. Protesters still vandalised the statue anyway, painting it with the gay pride rainbow flag with added black and brown to mark their support for Black Lives Matter.

    Having uncritically adopted the fashions of American academia, Ireland’s new young educated elite have started parroting the imported language of “white privilege” versus “people of colour”, and the dangers of nationalism versus the superior multinational capitalism-friendly values of openness.

    There is little reason to think the cultural revolution sweeping across Europe from America will stop and listen to the “but we’re on your side!” pleas offered by Irish Republicans about how they supported the anti-apartheid movement in the Eighties or how our nationalist heroes were anti-imperialists or that our Republicans today are economically left-leaning and pro-immigration.

    Anyone who thinks these details will matter, and that any remnant of Irish cultural nationhood will be immune, is simply not paying attention to the unstoppable internal logic of the current cultural revolution underway. This new generation of elite aspirants are already showing that they make no such distinction and simply recast the native Irish as “white people” whose privilege needs to be checked and ultimately dismantled.

    It is worth asking why the woke cultural revolution sweeping Irish society would spare a single one of our national statues, monuments or heroes. One could go through the entire list of signatories of the Proclamation of the Irish Republic and find cancellable and problematic thoughts uttered by each of them in different contexts. The deeply Catholic Constance Markievicz cited the “anti-Irish ideals” of “immorality and divorce” against the Anglo-Irish Treaty. Patrick Pearse explicitly wrote of blood sacrifice and the Irish race, saying that, “there can be no peace between the body politic and a foreign substance that has intruded itself into its system” which must be expelled or assimilated through war.

    Why wouldn’t our literary heroes also be wiped from the canon and from the public space? The continued dominance of Irish literature in our universities is certainly open to the accusation of being exclusionary and too white. What about George Bernard Shaw, who once wrote that “Any competent historian or psychoanalyst can bring a mass of incontrovertible evidence to prove that it would have been better for the world if the Jews had never existed”? What about W. B. Yeats, who preferred fascism to democracy? Who will be left in our compliant little colony of Silicon Valley to defend any of these figures a few years from now after the woke cultural revolution has replaced the unsuspecting old guard with the new?

    What about the special place given to the Irish language in state institutions, which it could be easily argued excludes and discriminates against foreigners? What about the explicitly ethnocentric Irish right of return policy, which grants people with Irish grandparents the right to citizenship? Irish liberal media used to love showcasing the young children of immigrants playing hurling or speaking Irish, which offered a vision of the future in which anyone could be Irish through adoption of the national culture, but what happens when those young people are filled with poison in the indoctrination camps of university and taught to fear and resent the native population as white racists?

    Connolly, the Catholic revert who fought and died alongside ethno-nationalists won’t stand a chance when they come for him next time.

    Unlike the republics that can claim to be founded on abstract and universalist principles, sooner or later there is simply no getting around the brick wall of truth that the Irish nationhood envisioned by our revolutionary founders was fundamentally ethno-nationalist. How could it have been otherwise? Historians can offer all the contextualising explanations they like but this will be the awkward truth the woke internationale will use to bury it in shame.

    Nationalists will no longer be dealing with a few scattered genteel revisionist intellectuals like Conor Cruise O’Brien, but the full tidal ideological force of the American Empire, with its sophisticated cold war psychological warfare tactics, its world dominating oligarchy and every elite institution at home and abroad on its side.

    Ireland is uniquely vulnerable to all of this as a nation without a national economic base, wholly reliant on the whim and will of aggressively ideological multinationals temporarily parked there for tax purposes. After gaining national independence, Ireland had to embark upon the difficult task of making an agrarian economy, which had been shaped and distorted by its role as a colony of the British Empire, independent and backed by an indigenous industrial base. As trade union economist Michael Taft has documented, this project failed at key historical moments and was ultimately replaced by the easier route to modernity of inviting international capital to base itself there using tax incentives.

    As a result of the low-tax policies introduced in the late Nineties, Ireland today is effectively a tax haven, hosting the European headquarters of Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and many others. Some of these companies have been found to be paying as little as 0.005% tax. While this project gave Ireland the Celtic Tiger economy, it also produced a deeply unequal society totally subservient to the sovereignty and ultimately the values and culture of the corporations who today are its guiding force. For our obedience, we received surely the lowest of honours just last year when anti-yellow vests French intellectual Bernard-Henri Levy congratulated us for being “a people who resist the winds of populism”. It is a tragic irony of Irish history that, having fought a globe-spanning empire to build an independent Irish nation, and having fought the imperial landlords through agrarian peasant movements before that, giving the world the very word boycott, it stands today as a tax colony of American tech in which the native young leave because of its unchecked speculative landlordism.

    While its subservient relationship to the British Empire brought famine and hardship, Ireland’s subservient relationship to an American progressive tech oligarchy brought about the Celtic Tiger and as a consequence we were happy to ignore the truth of the arrangement: that we were simply passing from one form of colony to another. It will now be a second but no less bitter irony that the native Irish working class will soon find themselves in the same position as the British have — despised as reactionary by our own elites and morally and economically blackmailed into accepting their more enlightened values.

    Like all doomed traditions, our banal ethno-nationalism has been passively held by the majority while the intellectual and moral foundations that once justified it have been slowly replaced and degraded while nobody was paying attention. When a full confrontation with the liberal internationalism we invited in during the Celtic Tiger years inevitably happens, those foundations will already be gone and we will no longer be able to explain why having any right to a national culture or national sovereignty is anything other than racist and exclusionary.

    The small conflict sparked by the Sean Russell statue was a moment of escalation. Whether it was too soon to bring the wrecking ball in or not, to make the Irish too acutely aware of what is coming, remains to be seen, but the direction of the historical winds should be obvious.

    The revolutionary generation that gave us the Irish nation understood that you cannot be culturally, intellectually or economically self-directed if you’re ruled from a foreign power. These recent events have started to reveal the irreconcilable and contradictory nature of the official ideology of post-Celtic Tiger Ireland, which tried to dress our colonial relationship to international capitalism as a national triumph. The Irish will soon learn that if your economy is ruled from California, your society will start to look like California, a nowhere of the very rich and very poor, but without the sunshine.


    Great analysis from a marxist standpoint. The sooner the US and it's "leftist ideology" (its not leftist) of intersectionality slides into irrelevance the better. Europe needs to defend itself from this anti-worker poison with everything it has.

    Ironic that the EU, the quintessential neoliberal institution, is all that stands between the worker and intellectual dominance from abroad. I don't have much hope
    That's sort of what I've been saying, except you're too late. You're already intellectually dominated by us. Whatever is decided by the trinity of corporations, academia, and the media in the US is what will happen more-or-less globally, until China's cultural output overcomes the US.

  8. #22748
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    Yep, the author acknowledges that

    While its subservient relationship to the British Empire brought famine and hardship, Ireland’s subservient relationship to an American progressive tech oligarchy brought about the Celtic Tiger and as a consequence we were happy to ignore the truth of the arrangement: that we were simply passing from one form of colony to another. It will now be a second but no less bitter irony that the native Irish working class will soon find themselves in the same position as the British have — despised as reactionary by our own elites and morally and economically blackmailed into accepting their more enlightened values.

    Like all doomed traditions, our banal ethno-nationalism has been passively held by the majority while the intellectual and moral foundations that once justified it have been slowly replaced and degraded while nobody was paying attention. When a full confrontation with the liberal internationalism we invited in during the Celtic Tiger years inevitably happens, those foundations will already be gone and we will no longer be able to explain why having any right to a national culture or national sovereignty is anything other than racist and exclusionary.

    The small conflict sparked by the Sean Russell statue was a moment of escalation. Whether it was too soon to bring the wrecking ball in or not, to make the Irish too acutely aware of what is coming, remains to be seen, but the direction of the historical winds should be obvious.

    The revolutionary generation that gave us the Irish nation understood that you cannot be culturally, intellectually or economically self-directed if you’re ruled from a foreign power. These recent events have started to reveal the irreconcilable and contradictory nature of the official ideology of post-Celtic Tiger Ireland, which tried to dress our colonial relationship to international capitalism as a national triumph. The Irish will soon learn that if your economy is ruled from California, your society will start to look like California, a nowhere of the very rich and very poor, but without the sunshine.

  9. #22749
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    Basically google and apple economically took over Ireland and are going to foist their values onto the country (or else!). I'm not sure what the root cause is, but I don't understand the need for big corporations to instill their values onto an entire country; surely the economic rein is enough to keep control. To undermine the culture of the country you came into seems almost like treason. If this is intentional - and going from the veritas interviews with google employees it seems it is - it's a portent of Ireland's future and possibly most of the West. I'm of Irish ancestry although I'm an American mutt like the rest, but I'd hate to see the few remaining mono-cultures disappear under more California globalism.

  10. #22750
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    Capitalism also requires accumulation of social and cultural capital and seeks monopoly. Not particularly surprising. It becomes much easier to generate demand for your products in one culture than having to adapt to different consumer habits.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  11. #22751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    We like to joke BoTh SiDeS LoL but it's true in American politics, in the sense that the neolib and neocons are the same group of people who've been gathering power and money and such for the past 60 years while putting on a WWE match. SFO summed it up pretty well.



    Despite the wide political spectrum on shitheap I get the feeling most political points are agreed upon (nearly) universally. Nobody wants disarmament of the population's gun rights or sawdust in their bread flour. But christ what kind of moron puts fennel seeds in bread. That's for meats and sausage only, I don't want spicy bread what is wrong with some people.
    I like spicy bread, in moderation. Caraway rye is goddamb delicious. Fennel seeds in bread are good with charcuterie. Pepper & cumin in fresh flatbreads are great with BBQ. Amercans prolly way overdo the spices though, everything gotta be extremes with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  12. #22752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Almost as if no, not everyone does, and it's why this is a thing in the first place.
    That is why I said anyone 'can'. There is a minority who don't, the majority do believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Someone who supports institutional racism, and what's more, the vote suppression of black people primarily in the south of the US, where a majority of them live. This is the modern GOP.

    Here. Have an African American's perspective on people like Ben Carson. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...elusional.html
    Im pretty sure someone like Ben Carson doesn't support institutional racism, this Uncle Tom character you proclaim to exist doesn't outside of fairy tales. The article you linked is more about politics and less about race.
    Why though? You were plenty sure that plenty of British people could be traitors to the UK, to the extent of recommending they be hanged as I recall; why couldn't a black person be capable of betraying his ethnicity?
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  13. #22753
    Keckers's Avatar
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    How many levels of cognitive dissonance can a single Meester hold?
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  14. #22754

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    How many levels of cognitive dissonance can a single Meester hold?
    Yes.

  15. #22755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Why though? You were plenty sure that plenty of British people could be traitors to the UK, to the extent of recommending they be hanged as I recall; why couldn't a black person be capable of betraying his ethnicity?
    Brexit was never about Race. Try a different line, preferably one that isn't taking a Marxist tone.

    But I do agree caraway in bread is delicious.

  16. #22756

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  17. #22757
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  18. #22758
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    RIP Nigger, forever in our hearts.

    Dambusters dog: Headstone replaced to remove racist name

    A gravestone honouring the Dambusters' dog - whose name is a racial slur - has been replaced.

    The 617 Squadron's mascot, a black Labrador, died on the day of its famous "bouncing bomb" raid on German dams in 1943.

    A memorial at the Dambusters' World War Two base, RAF Scampton, bearing the dog's name was removed.

    The RAF said it did not want to give prominence to an offensive term that went against its ethos.

    Sir Edward Leigh, Conservative MP for Gainsborough, said he was "very fearful of our ability today to erase or re-write history".
    Kris Hendrix, campaigns manager at the RAF Museum, said the dog - which the BBC is not naming - was a "drinking buddy" for squadron members and would consume litres of beer before passing out.

    He was hit by a car and killed on 16 May 1943, but his death was kept from the airmen as it was feared they might see it as a bad omen.

    Mr Hendrix added: "It was such a famous dog, it was such a famous squadron and that meant the grave has been kept until today.

    "The standards have changed throughout the years, while it may not have been a controversial name during the Second World War, things are very different now."
    Sir Edward said he had written to the station commander of RAF Scampton about the change.

    In his letter, shared with the BBC, he said: "Undoubtedly we are both more sensitive and more sensible today when it comes to the delicateness of racialist and derogatory terminology which had been used with unfortunate informality in the past.

    "I am, however, very fearful of our ability today to erase or re-write history. The past needs to be explained, taught about, and learned from - not re-written."
    Dambusters dog: Headstone racist name removal 'disgraceful'

    Replacing a gravestone honouring the Dambusters' dog - whose name is a racial slur - was "absolutely disgraceful", critics said.

    The black Labrador dog's name was removed from the memorial by RAF Scampton because it "did not want to give prominence to an offensive term".

    More than 3,300 people have signed a petition calling for the name of 617 Squadron's mascot to be put back.

    Dambusters historian and author James Holland praised the RAF's move.

    He said removing the pejorative name was "not changing history" and should not overshadow the "heroism" of the dog's owner, Guy Gibson.
    The Labrador died on the day of the famous "bouncing bomb" raid on German dams in 1943 and a memorial is at the Dambusters' World War Two base in Lincolnshire.

    But the decision to remove the name has prompted fierce opposition.

    Posting on Facebook, Sharon said: "Absolutely disgraceful! Utterly dismayed at this decision. History cannot be changed, but [it] is what we learn from to make our future.

    "We should concentrate on the here and now to make this a better place."

    Another user, Dorothy, said: "Horrendous. What is the world coming to? The dog is part of history. Why on earth should they find it offensive?

    "Are we not supposed to buy black dogs or cats now for risk of becoming being called racist?"

    Dee described the move as "a disgrace".
    Sarah Hobday, who started the online petition, said she wanted the original "memorial plaque back where it belongs".

    Mr Holland, who presented BBC TV documentary "Dam Busters: The Race to Smash the German Dams", described the headstone replacement as "brilliant".

    "I'm all for it. I think that is sensitive, it's honouring the fact that the history is still there," he said.

    "For those who are against it, I would say that it's also impacting on how we regard Guy Gibson. Because the accusation is that Guy Gibson was a racist by having a dog called that name. Whereas actually he should be remembered for his heroism in what he achieved, which was absolutely remarkable.

    "I think it's much better that we don't allow ourselves to be distracted by a pejorative name of his pet dog that was run over the night before the raid."
    I'm not going to gammon it up too much... The 'N' word doesn't have the same history in the UK as it does in the US so I don't know why we should be applying the same standards.
    http://puu.sh/kTSQD/2e39d12cac.png
    http://i.imgur.com/AfHQMwR.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/sQRclby.png

  19. #22759
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    RIP Nigger, forever in our hearts.

    Dambusters dog: Headstone replaced to remove racist name

    A gravestone honouring the Dambusters' dog - whose name is a racial slur - has been replaced.

    The 617 Squadron's mascot, a black Labrador, died on the day of its famous "bouncing bomb" raid on German dams in 1943.

    A memorial at the Dambusters' World War Two base, RAF Scampton, bearing the dog's name was removed.

    The RAF said it did not want to give prominence to an offensive term that went against its ethos.

    Sir Edward Leigh, Conservative MP for Gainsborough, said he was "very fearful of our ability today to erase or re-write history".
    Kris Hendrix, campaigns manager at the RAF Museum, said the dog - which the BBC is not naming - was a "drinking buddy" for squadron members and would consume litres of beer before passing out.

    He was hit by a car and killed on 16 May 1943, but his death was kept from the airmen as it was feared they might see it as a bad omen.

    Mr Hendrix added: "It was such a famous dog, it was such a famous squadron and that meant the grave has been kept until today.

    "The standards have changed throughout the years, while it may not have been a controversial name during the Second World War, things are very different now."
    Sir Edward said he had written to the station commander of RAF Scampton about the change.

    In his letter, shared with the BBC, he said: "Undoubtedly we are both more sensitive and more sensible today when it comes to the delicateness of racialist and derogatory terminology which had been used with unfortunate informality in the past.

    "I am, however, very fearful of our ability today to erase or re-write history. The past needs to be explained, taught about, and learned from - not re-written."
    Dambusters dog: Headstone racist name removal 'disgraceful'

    Replacing a gravestone honouring the Dambusters' dog - whose name is a racial slur - was "absolutely disgraceful", critics said.

    The black Labrador dog's name was removed from the memorial by RAF Scampton because it "did not want to give prominence to an offensive term".

    More than 3,300 people have signed a petition calling for the name of 617 Squadron's mascot to be put back.

    Dambusters historian and author James Holland praised the RAF's move.

    He said removing the pejorative name was "not changing history" and should not overshadow the "heroism" of the dog's owner, Guy Gibson.
    The Labrador died on the day of the famous "bouncing bomb" raid on German dams in 1943 and a memorial is at the Dambusters' World War Two base in Lincolnshire.

    But the decision to remove the name has prompted fierce opposition.

    Posting on Facebook, Sharon said: "Absolutely disgraceful! Utterly dismayed at this decision. History cannot be changed, but [it] is what we learn from to make our future.

    "We should concentrate on the here and now to make this a better place."

    Another user, Dorothy, said: "Horrendous. What is the world coming to? The dog is part of history. Why on earth should they find it offensive?

    "Are we not supposed to buy black dogs or cats now for risk of becoming being called racist?"

    Dee described the move as "a disgrace".
    Sarah Hobday, who started the online petition, said she wanted the original "memorial plaque back where it belongs".

    Mr Holland, who presented BBC TV documentary "Dam Busters: The Race to Smash the German Dams", described the headstone replacement as "brilliant".

    "I'm all for it. I think that is sensitive, it's honouring the fact that the history is still there," he said.

    "For those who are against it, I would say that it's also impacting on how we regard Guy Gibson. Because the accusation is that Guy Gibson was a racist by having a dog called that name. Whereas actually he should be remembered for his heroism in what he achieved, which was absolutely remarkable.

    "I think it's much better that we don't allow ourselves to be distracted by a pejorative name of his pet dog that was run over the night before the raid."
    I'm not going to gammon it up too much... The 'N' word doesn't have the same history in the UK as it does in the US so I don't know why we should be applying the same standards.
    You've been the 51st State for a while really. Now that you are out from the protective economic might of the assembled Eurocucks, the will can be made flesh, so to speak.

    Don't struggle. Chlorinated chicken tastes ok.
    meh

  20. #22760

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    The 'N' word doesn't have the same history in the UK as it does in the US
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smethw...neral_election

    Get back in your box with the other racists.

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