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  1. #18821
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    I had sex with a trans woman some 5 years ago. I actually only realised it afterwards. She was great, and a lot nicer than many other women I've slept with.
    I kissed a trans woman once, didnt know it untill she told me, then i kissed her again. We stayed in touch for about 3 years, turned out she killed herself, never found out why tho. She actually fled Antwerp, Belgium to Rotterdam because Antwerp was very toxic, late nineties this was.
    Isn't it almost certainly from the profound mental health difficulties that come as an almost inevitable consequence of being trans in a society that largely doesnt accept the reality of your existence?

  2. #18822
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    The suicide rate for trans people is extremely high, even for those that live in the open and are accepted, the suicide rate doesn't vary much between post-op or pre-op either.
    Transgenderism is a form of mental illness, and denying this is hurting the trans people, as this moral bullshit is getting in the way of them getting the help they need.
    I think trans people deserve support, they should be allowed to use womens bathrooms, but much more importantly, I think they should get help in the form of psychiatry, there are groups of people that get harassed to the same degree without having nearly as high a suicide rate or suffering from depression at the same rate.
    There is something more that affect these statistics, and pushing the current politically correct narrative of gender being a social construct is NOT helping anyone, it's only meaningless virtue signalling to make themselves feel better.
    Let science do it's thing without moral bias or politics interfering.
    I don't have prejudice, I hate everyone equally.

  3. #18823
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    The suicide rate for trans people is extremely high, even for those that live in the open and are accepted, the suicide rate doesn't vary much between post-op or pre-op either.
    Transgenderism is a form of mental illness, and denying this is hurting the trans people, as this moral bullshit is getting in the way of them getting the help they need.
    I think trans people deserve support, they should be allowed to use womens bathrooms, but much more importantly, I think they should get help in the form of psychiatry, there are groups of people that get harassed to the same degree without having nearly as high a suicide rate or suffering from depression at the same rate.
    There is something more that affect these statistics, and pushing the current politically correct narrative of gender being a social construct is NOT helping anyone, it's only meaningless virtue signalling to make themselves feel better.
    Let science do it's thing without moral bias or politics interfering.
    "Let's do science" appears to mean "let's state tabloid journalism as if it is fact!" to you

    Rebuttal of specific claims made in your post (which echo a discredited WSJ article by renowned bigot Paul McHugh - author of much respected articles such as "Homosexuality: Treatment for Disordered Desires"):

    http://transadvocate.com/worlds-expe...ax_n_13924.htm

    Comprehensive fact check of overall area:

    http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-...al_n_15483.htm

    Both my links contain direct, clickable references to the underlying studies. The evidence is that the higher rate of mental health issues attributable to transgender people, including suicide rates, is caused by the trauma of being transgender in a society that doesnt accept and frequently persecutes transgenderism.

    Sex reassignment is a highly effective treatment for gender dysphoria. Is it enough alone to mend typically decades of damage done by gender dysphoria, social exclusion, bullying, exclusion, ridicule, and societal condemnation? No, of course not. No single treatment likely is - years of therapy and widespread social change, at a bare minimum, is needed.

    Your post is the equivalent of implying that the higher suicide rate among gay people means that homosexuality is a mental illness that needs treatment. No. It's merely a reflection of the fact that gay people still get a really shitty deal, especially as kids.

    Or to put it in terms hopefully most people can directly relate to, you are doing the equivalent of this:

    "A kid gets bullied throughout school, violently, emotionally, verbally. Excluded and picked upon, victimised by pupils, teachers and even parents. They turn 18 and leave home and the bullying stops. They remain anxious, depressed, isolated. BUT THE BULLYING HAS STOPPED; WHY ARENT THEY HAPPY NOW? Perhaps the bullying was THEIR fault all along!"

    i.e. fucking retarded.

    Interesting fact; though its fairly early days for long term cohort studies, it appears from the little work on it that HAS been done that transgender people who transition in their teens and convincingly "pass" have much lower rates of suicide than later in life or less "passable" transgender people (though still above baseline). Funny that.
    Last edited by Lallante; December 5 2017 at 12:16:06 PM.

  4. #18824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    Transgenderism is a form of mental illness, and denying this is hurting the trans people, as this moral bullshit is getting in the way of them getting the help they need.
    I think trans people deserve support, they should be allowed to use womens bathrooms, but much more importantly, I think they should get help in the form of psychiatry, there are groups of people that get harassed to the same degree without having nearly as high a suicide rate or suffering from depression at the same rate.
    I would like to dispute this. I wonder where the idea that Transgenderism is a form of mental illness comes from. The fact that it has it's own code in ICD does not mean it's a disease. It's just a classification of various phenomena. If this is the reason, then circumcision (Z41.2) or birth (Z37.0) are diseases/illnesses as well. If you prefer the scientific approach, then I'd like you to argue why you think transgenderism should be considered a mental illness.

    The suicide risk of non-heterosexual men (and transgender individuals) is quite well known, but many of the factors associated with elevated suicide risks seem to be societal in nature. For example, Mustanski & Liu (2013) report that in their model hopelessness, depression symptoms, conduct disorder symptoms, impulsivity, victimization, age of first same-sex attraction, and low family support are associated with increased suicide risk. I would rather argue that there are very few groups that are more ostracized than transsexuals, and this greatly contributes to the suicide risk. It seems highly unlikely to me that psychiatry alone is sufficient to reduce the suicide risk.

    I also find it interesting that homosexual females do not seem to show the same elevated suicide risk as homosexual males or transgender individuals (for a review, see Haas et al., 2010).

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  5. #18825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    The suicide rate for trans people is extremely high, even for those that live in the open and are accepted, the suicide rate doesn't vary much between post-op or pre-op either.
    Transgenderism is a form of mental illness, and denying this is hurting the trans people, as this moral bullshit is getting in the way of them getting the help they need.
    I think trans people deserve support, they should be allowed to use womens bathrooms, but much more importantly, I think they should get help in the form of psychiatry, there are groups of people that get harassed to the same degree without having nearly as high a suicide rate or suffering from depression at the same rate.
    There is something more that affect these statistics, and pushing the current politically correct narrative of gender being a social construct is NOT helping anyone, it's only meaningless virtue signalling to make themselves feel better.
    Let science do it's thing without moral bias or politics interfering.
    "Let's do science" appears to mean "let's state tabloid journalism as if it is fact!" to you

    Rebuttal of specific claims made in your post (which echo a discredited WSJ article by renowned bigot Paul McHugh - author of much respected articles such as "Homosexuality: Treatment for Disordered Desires"):

    http://transadvocate.com/worlds-expe...ax_n_13924.htm

    Comprehensive fact check of overall area:

    http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-...al_n_15483.htm

    Both my links contain direct, clickable references to the underlying studies. The evidence is that the higher rate of mental health issues attributable to transgender people, including suicide rates, is caused by the trauma of being transgender in a society that doesnt accept and frequently persecutes transgenderism.

    Sex reassignment is a highly effective treatment for gender dysphoria. Is it enough alone to mend typically decades of damage done by gender dysphoria, social exclusion, bullying, exclusion, ridicule, and societal condemnation? No, of course not. No single treatment likely is - years of therapy and widespread social change, at a bare minimum, is needed.

    Your post is the equivalent of implying that the higher suicide rate among gay people means that homosexuality is a mental illness that needs treatment. No. It's merely a reflection of the fact that gay people still get a really shitty deal, especially as kids.

    Or to put it in terms hopefully most people can directly relate to, you are doing the equivalent of this:

    "A kid gets bullied throughout school, violently, emotionally, verbally. Excluded and picked upon, victimised by pupils, teachers and even parents. They turn 18 and leave home and the bullying stops. They remain anxious, depressed, isolated. BUT THE BULLYING HAS STOPPED; WHY ARENT THEY HAPPY NOW? Perhaps the bullying was THEIR fault all along!"

    i.e. fucking retarded.

    Interesting fact; though its fairly early days for long term cohort studies, it appears from the little work on it that HAS been done that transgender people who transition in their teens and convincingly "pass" have much lower rates of suicide than later in life or less "passable" transgender people (though still above baseline). Funny that.
    You just put me into the same group as frothing alt right dudes without reading my post, good job.

    Trans people suffer more from mental health issues than pretty much any other group, including those that face much the same societal issues (I would argue that some are persecuted to a much higher degree, atheists in the middle east is one example), this is a well documented fact.

    Your links didn't cite a single study, just one biased article, but checking quite a few studies, nobody can say that it reduces it either, and note that I'm not against male-to-female or female-to-male surgery, I just think it should not be something that is done without the proper psychiatric evaluation.

    Trans people need acceptance, but you can't just shove the facts under the rug because it doesn't fit your narrative, they do have higher rates of suicide and mental health issues than other groups in similar situations, so it can't be summed up to be caused just by oppresion, that is ignorance.

    Could not conclude anything regarding the effect of surgery on suicide rates.
    https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...port-Final.pdf

    This one only touches a bit on effect of surgery, but even here it's concluded that the rate is very high irregardless of surgery, and even among those having kept it secret successfully.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

    The only logical conclusion I can draw from your post, is that you are desperate to have the moral high ground, no matter what the reality might be.
    I don't have prejudice, I hate everyone equally.

  6. #18826
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    Trans people suffer more from mental health issues than pretty much any other group, including those that face much the same societal issues (I would argue that some are persecuted to a much higher degree, atheists in the middle east is one example), this is a well documented fact.
    But that wasn't what you originally claimed.

    This is:

    Transgenderism is a form of mental illness, and denying this is hurting the trans people, as this moral bullshit is getting in the way of them getting the help they need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus
    whats tyhe appear of a shnitifuck cu nt eve onlio9ne corpotraTION DICKOLHEAD FUCKIN AS

  7. #18827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    Transgenderism is a form of mental illness, and denying this is hurting the trans people, as this moral bullshit is getting in the way of them getting the help they need.
    I think trans people deserve support, they should be allowed to use womens bathrooms, but much more importantly, I think they should get help in the form of psychiatry, there are groups of people that get harassed to the same degree without having nearly as high a suicide rate or suffering from depression at the same rate.
    I would like to dispute this. I wonder where the idea that Transgenderism is a form of mental illness comes from. The fact that it has it's own code in ICD does not mean it's a disease. It's just a classification of various phenomena. If this is the reason, then circumcision (Z41.2) or birth (Z37.0) are diseases/illnesses as well. If you prefer the scientific approach, then I'd like you to argue why you think transgenderism should be considered a mental illness.

    The suicide risk of non-heterosexual men (and transgender individuals) is quite well known, but many of the factors associated with elevated suicide risks seem to be societal in nature. For example, Mustanski & Liu (2013) report that in their model hopelessness, depression symptoms, conduct disorder symptoms, impulsivity, victimization, age of first same-sex attraction, and low family support are associated with increased suicide risk. I would rather argue that there are very few groups that are more ostracized than transsexuals, and this greatly contributes to the suicide risk. It seems highly unlikely to me that psychiatry alone is sufficient to reduce the suicide risk.

    I also find it interesting that homosexual females do not seem to show the same elevated suicide risk as homosexual males or transgender individuals (for a review, see Haas et al., 2010).
    I categorize it as an illness in the same way as high functioning autism is an illness, it's not necessarily debilitating in any way, and it might be something that can't be "cured" or even should be, I do in no way consider trans people as untermensch, it might come off as I don't like them, but that's not the case, I just think the current LGBTQ movement is misguided in how they try to tackle the problems around this.

    Discrimination and not getting acceptance from your own family is clearly one of the causes for the high suicide rate among trans people, but as a group they have such a high rate compared to other groups that face much the same difficulties, that I don't think that it's realistic to assume that it's purely a societal issue.

    Females in general have lower suicide rates than males, no matter their sexual orientation.
    I don't have prejudice, I hate everyone equally.

  8. #18828

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    I wouldn't bother mate no one will listen because what you're saying conflicts with their dogma.

  9. #18829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    Transgenderism is a form of mental illness, and denying this is hurting the trans people, as this moral bullshit is getting in the way of them getting the help they need.
    I think trans people deserve support, they should be allowed to use womens bathrooms, but much more importantly, I think they should get help in the form of psychiatry, there are groups of people that get harassed to the same degree without having nearly as high a suicide rate or suffering from depression at the same rate.
    I would like to dispute this. I wonder where the idea that Transgenderism is a form of mental illness comes from. The fact that it has it's own code in ICD does not mean it's a disease. It's just a classification of various phenomena. If this is the reason, then circumcision (Z41.2) or birth (Z37.0) are diseases/illnesses as well. If you prefer the scientific approach, then I'd like you to argue why you think transgenderism should be considered a mental illness.

    The suicide risk of non-heterosexual men (and transgender individuals) is quite well known, but many of the factors associated with elevated suicide risks seem to be societal in nature. For example, Mustanski & Liu (2013) report that in their model hopelessness, depression symptoms, conduct disorder symptoms, impulsivity, victimization, age of first same-sex attraction, and low family support are associated with increased suicide risk. I would rather argue that there are very few groups that are more ostracized than transsexuals, and this greatly contributes to the suicide risk. It seems highly unlikely to me that psychiatry alone is sufficient to reduce the suicide risk.

    I also find it interesting that homosexual females do not seem to show the same elevated suicide risk as homosexual males or transgender individuals (for a review, see Haas et al., 2010).
    I categorize it as an illness in the same way as high functioning autism is an illness, it's not necessarily debilitating in any way, and it might be something that can't be "cured" or even should be, I do in no way consider trans people as untermensch, it might come off as I don't like them, but that's not the case, I just think the current LGBTQ movement is misguided in how they try to tackle the problems around this.

    Discrimination and not getting acceptance from your own family is clearly one of the causes for the high suicide rate among trans people, but as a group they have such a high rate compared to other groups that face much the same difficulties, that I don't think that it's realistic to assume that it's purely a societal issue.

    Females in general have lower suicide rates than males, no matter their sexual orientation.
    Oh okay - and thanks for a good post. But I just wonder if the "mental illness" approach is not as constructive as it could be, considering many of the risk factors seem to be societal in nature. Hence I'd rather support the current approach of keeping the sex/gender distinction and trying to change the societal issues first. I'm sorry to cite the same source again, but Mustanski & Liu argue that

    "Among LGBT-specific risk factors, LGBT victimization was positively correlated, and age of same-sex attraction was negatively correlated, with history of attempted suicide. That is, greater experiences of LGBT victimization and younger age of same-sex attraction were associated with increased likelihood of past suicide attempts."

    In short, they seem to argue that LGBT suicides are a result of general risk factors and societal LGBT specific risk factors. So to me, it seems the specific risk factors arise from the societal issues.

    I would like to support this claim with recent data showing that passing legislation allowing for same-sec marriages reduced attempted suicide rates by up to 7% in sexual minorities (Raifman, Moscoe, Austin & McConnell, 2017). To me, this would suggest that societal issues can have a large effect. A relevant questions is, however, if it merely represents a temporary change in attempted suicide rate, not a long-term one? And while attempted suicide rate is not the same issue as suicide rate in general, attempted suicide is the most robust predictor of actual suicide later on, as you probably know (it's just here for other FHC'ers who may not know the dynamics).

    Please also note that I'm not ruling out the need of psychiatric help for especially transgender individuals and I even would go as far to state that it's paramount. But I think we are mostly in disagreement about the causality of the suicide rate, not on the help needed?
    Last edited by Timaios; December 5 2017 at 02:45:01 PM.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  10. #18830
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    I categorize it as an illness in the same way as high functioning autism is an illness, it's not necessarily debilitating in any way, and it might be something that can't be "cured" or even should be, I do in no way consider trans people as untermensch, it might come off as I don't like them, but that's not the case, I just think the current LGBTQ movement is misguided in how they try to tackle the problems around this.

    Discrimination and not getting acceptance from your own family is clearly one of the causes for the high suicide rate among trans people, but as a group they have such a high rate compared to other groups that face much the same difficulties, that I don't think that it's realistic to assume that it's purely a societal issue.

    Females in general have lower suicide rates than males, no matter their sexual orientation.
    What do you consider to be "groups that face much the same difficulties"? Because I can't think of any.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus
    whats tyhe appear of a shnitifuck cu nt eve onlio9ne corpotraTION DICKOLHEAD FUCKIN AS

  11. #18831
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    And before you inevitably names Gays in Saudi Arabia or whatever I suggest you look up the murder/suicide stats for that group (hint: it's epically higher than Western Trans people)

  12. #18832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Flare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    I categorize it as an illness in the same way as high functioning autism is an illness, it's not necessarily debilitating in any way, and it might be something that can't be "cured" or even should be, I do in no way consider trans people as untermensch, it might come off as I don't like them, but that's not the case, I just think the current LGBTQ movement is misguided in how they try to tackle the problems around this.

    Discrimination and not getting acceptance from your own family is clearly one of the causes for the high suicide rate among trans people, but as a group they have such a high rate compared to other groups that face much the same difficulties, that I don't think that it's realistic to assume that it's purely a societal issue.

    Females in general have lower suicide rates than males, no matter their sexual orientation.
    What do you consider to be "groups that face much the same difficulties"? Because I can't think of any.
    Try being an atheist in the middle east, where you literally will get killed if anyone finds out, killings of atheists in the muslim world is just a part of the routine.
    I don't have prejudice, I hate everyone equally.

  13. #18833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    And before you inevitably names Gays in Saudi Arabia or whatever I suggest you look up the murder/suicide stats for that group (hint: it's epically higher than Western Trans people)
    I actually tried finding statistics for that, but it's all estimates, most suicides don't get reported as such.
    They have that whole fucked up idea about honour.
    I don't have prejudice, I hate everyone equally.

  14. #18834
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    so what you are saying is you are talking out of your arse when you say:

    t as a group they have such a high rate compared to other groups that face much the same difficulties, that I don't think that it's realistic to assume that it's purely a societal issue.

  15. #18835
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    Title should be changed to political reassignment surgery thread or politically correct toilet thread

  16. #18836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    I categorize it as an illness in the same way as high functioning autism is an illness, it's not necessarily debilitating in any way, and it might be something that can't be "cured" or even should be, I do in no way consider trans people as untermensch, it might come off as I don't like them, but that's not the case, I just think the current LGBTQ movement is misguided in how they try to tackle the problems around this.

    Discrimination and not getting acceptance from your own family is clearly one of the causes for the high suicide rate among trans people, but as a group they have such a high rate compared to other groups that face much the same difficulties, that I don't think that it's realistic to assume that it's purely a societal issue.

    Females in general have lower suicide rates than males, no matter their sexual orientation.
    now you're just being a dick buddy.

    illness implies it is a disease and thus treatable with enough effort applied. my Autism/Aspergers is not fucking treatable, there is no magic pill, there is no magical therapy that makes it go away, it's literately wired into how my brain works on a fundamental level in terms of what areas of the brains governs behaviours ranging from the complex (thinking patterns) to the mundane (basic movement) and how these areas do, and do not interact with each other.

    you're even fucking implying that with that "might" thrown in, it's quite frankly offensive to imply that you can just "treat away" fundamental aspects of people's personalities and no that fig-leaf justification of "or even should be" doesn't change the underlying implication you're presenting either, "if these people would just take a pill and fuck off from anywhere near me".

    you probably do not hate either group, but your fundamental inability or unwillingness to understand the nature of what's going on is quite frankly offensive, neither gender dystopia or autism can be solved with a "magical pill". hormone therapy, and if opted for, gender reassignment surgery is about aligning reality with the expectation and fundamental understanding of the personality and brain involved, not the other way around.

    just like cognitive behaviour therapy for autistic people is about teaching how to handle situations and understanding "alien" thought-patterns rather than actually doing anything about the underlying condition, because you can't "fix" the underlying condition, that's the whole god-damn point. none of these are markedly different from homosexuality in that regard either.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  17. #18837
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Flare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    I categorize it as an illness in the same way as high functioning autism is an illness, it's not necessarily debilitating in any way, and it might be something that can't be "cured" or even should be, I do in no way consider trans people as untermensch, it might come off as I don't like them, but that's not the case, I just think the current LGBTQ movement is misguided in how they try to tackle the problems around this.

    Discrimination and not getting acceptance from your own family is clearly one of the causes for the high suicide rate among trans people, but as a group they have such a high rate compared to other groups that face much the same difficulties, that I don't think that it's realistic to assume that it's purely a societal issue.

    Females in general have lower suicide rates than males, no matter their sexual orientation.
    What do you consider to be "groups that face much the same difficulties"? Because I can't think of any.
    Try being an atheist in the middle east, where you literally will get killed if anyone finds out, killings of atheists in the muslim world is just a part of the routine.
    It's a good job there's no visible signs of being an Atheist then isn't it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus
    whats tyhe appear of a shnitifuck cu nt eve onlio9ne corpotraTION DICKOLHEAD FUCKIN AS

  18. #18838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Flare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Flare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Losvar View Post
    I categorize it as an illness in the same way as high functioning autism is an illness, it's not necessarily debilitating in any way, and it might be something that can't be "cured" or even should be, I do in no way consider trans people as untermensch, it might come off as I don't like them, but that's not the case, I just think the current LGBTQ movement is misguided in how they try to tackle the problems around this.

    Discrimination and not getting acceptance from your own family is clearly one of the causes for the high suicide rate among trans people, but as a group they have such a high rate compared to other groups that face much the same difficulties, that I don't think that it's realistic to assume that it's purely a societal issue.

    Females in general have lower suicide rates than males, no matter their sexual orientation.
    What do you consider to be "groups that face much the same difficulties"? Because I can't think of any.
    Try being an atheist in the middle east, where you literally will get killed if anyone finds out, killings of atheists in the muslim world is just a part of the routine.
    It's a good job there's no visible signs of being an Atheist then isn't it.
    No, they don't grow horns or tails, neither do trans people.
    But both groups often have to hide it, trans people are actually getting enough acceptance many places that they actually can be open about it.

    Despite that, trans people are still statistical outliers when compared to any other groups that face persecution, why is this?

    By screaming muh feels every time someone talks about it, doesn't fucking help!

    Maybe it's purely a societal issue, but the statistics don't support that idea.
    I don't have prejudice, I hate everyone equally.

  19. #18839
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    You try hiding being trans while transitioning, especially early on when you do noticably stand out and are at the point where you're most likely to be losing friends/family connections. It's much easier to bite one's tongue than to hide physical characteristics, nevermind other aspects of transition like wardrobe, voice, etc. My voice cracked constantly for years when starting out. It is in many respects a second puberty and there are a lot of tells.

    E: Not to touch on the whole trans suicide thing because I've almost joined that statistic a few times, even tho not solely due to trans-related issues, and have known more who have than I care for, so kinda too close there.
    Last edited by Fachiri; December 5 2017 at 04:26:06 PM.

  20. #18840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    You essentially support the social alienation and low level persecution of some of the most vulnerable people in society. All because you've got some weird fear of your wife being sexual assaulted by a trans person or something.

    You think seek out reports which support your strange prejudice while ignoring basically anything else by making a strange attempt to paint yourself as a victim in this discussion.
    If you'd bothered to actually read what I said you'll see I object for many reasons. The issue with women's spaces is a minor one compared to the other issues regarding freedom of belief and the social damage that such dogmatism to the transgender ideology would cause.

    Also I'm not advocating persecution of anyone arguable it is your side looking to persecute people who do not believe in this.
    Do not deflect.

    You are spouting hate towards a very vulnerable small minority. You support their persecution and social exile (alienation is too soft). Your tone mimics that used against homosexuals in the 80s and before.

    Tapapapatalk
    Highlight where I've done this using direct quotes.


    Tapapapatalk
    This post got some negrep:



    No Frug, it was perfect since the worse posts were deleted by mods.
    nevar forget

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