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Thread: Political Shots Fired Thread

  1. #19081
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Wait until he learns that taxes don't fund government spending...

  2. #19082
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Wait until he learns that taxes don't fund government spending...
    I haven't learned that myself. So who am I to judge.

    I have worked out that government spending doesn't actually throw money into a fire and destroy it. I get a lot more mad when I find out people have been pocketing big bucks due to corruption, rather than spending I don't agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  3. #19083
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    It boils down to the difference between commodity and fiat currencies.

    A thought experiment:

    Imagine a new nation state comes into existence and issues a new fiat currency. How does it get people to use that currency? How does it create demand?

    Simple: it says that taxes can only be paid in that currency, thereby creating demand for the currency.

    But how does fiat currency get into the hands of people, so they can pay their taxes? Where does supply come from?

    Simple: the government prints money and purchases some goods and services from the non-government, thus putting the currency into circulation.

    Government spending is therefore logically prior to taxation (and capital, for that matter). It's not tax-and-spend. It's spend-and-tax. Taxation in a fiat currency economy is about controlling the money supply to curb inflation, and about making the currency have some value—balancing monetary supply and demand—not about funding the government.

    The fact that the United States, for example, issues public debt to finance budget shortfalls is a legacy holdover from our historic use of gold as a commodity to back the dollar, and is a political choice, not one borne out of fiscal necessity.
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; December 19 2017 at 01:32:45 AM.

  4. #19084
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    The fact that the United States, for example, issues public debt to finance budget shortfalls is a legacy holdover from our historic use of gold as a commodity to back the dollar, and is a political choice, not one borne out of fiscal necessity.
    It's not like only the US does that though. Doesn't every government issue debt/borrow from non-government people in other countries or even other governments to finance itself? Either that or print more monies, which the US also does. I can't square what you're saying about a fiat currency, which is probably right, with reality. If the government prints money to pay for itself your money becomes worthless at a certain point, so effectively it does pay for itself via taxation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  5. #19085
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Because pretty much every government did the same commodity-to-fiat switch we did in the 20th century. They're still dealing with the same legacy institutions that the US is. Speaking of the US, the Dollar still rules, and however the United States does things is going to set the dominant norm.

    That norm can be changed.

    Especially if the United States decides to change it.

  6. #19086

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Not really since a tax break is specifically not taxing and therefore not having taxpayer monies.
    Ok, so you'd be good with paying for those hormone treatments with tax breaks instead of direct payments.

    Somehow I don't think that's the case.
    Eh? Do we have some crossed wires here?
    Do we?

    Here's how I see it (i'm trying to cut through the scarcasm here):

    You: Free sex-change is not a good use of taxpayer money
    Malcanis: Not as bad as giving vodafone a massive tax break
    You: That's different because a tax break is specifically 'not taxing'
    Me: So give people who want a sex change a tax break to pay for it

    Somehow I don't think you'd actually subscribe to the logical implication of your claiming that a tax break is so fundamentally different from just giving someone money.
    Perhaps you should read the article because it's not about that at all.

  7. #19087
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    The fact that the United States, for example, issues public debt to finance budget shortfalls is a legacy holdover from our historic use of gold as a commodity to back the dollar, and is a political choice, not one borne out of fiscal necessity.
    I'd argue that the USD is backed by our petroleum industry rather than gold, and while not officially backed by oil refineries the fact that we have the majority of the oil industry going through the US is how our currency is strong on the global market and why our public debt is allowed to continue to rise.

  8. #19088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    The fact that the United States, for example, issues public debt to finance budget shortfalls is a legacy holdover from our historic use of gold as a commodity to back the dollar, and is a political choice, not one borne out of fiscal necessity.
    I'd argue that the USD is backed by our petroleum industry rather than gold, and while not officially backed by oil refineries the fact that we have the majority of the oil industry going through the US is how our currency is strong on the global market and why our public debt is allowed to continue to rise.
    That's part of it, but it mainly lends stability to the dollar rather than directly pegging a value to it. The other part of the story is good old money/commodity fetishism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  9. #19089

  10. #19090
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    emojiis were a mistake and we will be punished for it

  11. #19091
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Replace "leftists" with "liberals" and replace "neoliberals" with "leftists" to get the terminology right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  12. #19092
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Not really since a tax break is specifically not taxing and therefore not having taxpayer monies.
    Ok, so you'd be good with paying for those hormone treatments with tax breaks instead of direct payments.

    Somehow I don't think that's the case.
    Eh? Do we have some crossed wires here?
    Do we?

    Here's how I see it (i'm trying to cut through the scarcasm here):

    You: Free sex-change is not a good use of taxpayer money
    Malcanis: Not as bad as giving vodafone a massive tax break
    You: That's different because a tax break is specifically 'not taxing'
    Me: So give people who want a sex change a tax break to pay for it

    Somehow I don't think you'd actually subscribe to the logical implication of your claiming that a tax break is so fundamentally different from just giving someone money.
    Perhaps you should read the article because it's not about that at all.
    I tried to read it but honestly the only part I'm responding to is your comment on taxpayer money.

    Crazy people want crazy things and should be ignored. Now lets focus on your assertion that a tax break is 'not taxing' and therefore is totally different than funding something, shall we? That's far more interesting to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  13. #19093

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Replace "leftists" with "liberals" and replace "neoliberals" with "leftists" to get the terminology right.
    Look at you, still feeling uncomfortable with your own choices and how the world perceives them, just can't accept it eh. Them labels man.

    To clarify, picture is worthless, but you somehow getting your panties in enough of a twist and having to somehow "correct" the obvious idiocy is just pathetic.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Isyel; December 20 2017 at 04:37:16 AM.

  14. #19094

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Not really since a tax break is specifically not taxing and therefore not having taxpayer monies.
    Ok, so you'd be good with paying for those hormone treatments with tax breaks instead of direct payments.

    Somehow I don't think that's the case.
    Eh? Do we have some crossed wires here?
    Do we?

    Here's how I see it (i'm trying to cut through the scarcasm here):

    You: Free sex-change is not a good use of taxpayer money
    Malcanis: Not as bad as giving vodafone a massive tax break
    You: That's different because a tax break is specifically 'not taxing'
    Me: So give people who want a sex change a tax break to pay for it

    Somehow I don't think you'd actually subscribe to the logical implication of your claiming that a tax break is so fundamentally different from just giving someone money.
    Perhaps you should read the article because it's not about that at all.
    I tried to read it but honestly the only part I'm responding to is your comment on taxpayer money.

    Crazy people want crazy things and should be ignored. Now lets focus on your assertion that a tax break is 'not taxing' and therefore is totally different than funding something, shall we? That's far more interesting to me.
    It nothing to do with free sex changes though, which you state. It's about the government directly funding an extremist group that calls for the death of police officers on its website.

    Furthermore providing taxpayer money to something is massively different from giving a tax break. One is simply handing over cash the other is reducing a tax bill. Unless you believe all money belongs to the government and the government decides how much you're allowed to have then the two are not even vaguely equivalent.

    Lastly I don't even know of Vodafone receives such a "tax break" as Malcanis puts it, it was an irrelevant point made by a poster who seems unable to think at all.

  15. #19095
    Keckers's Avatar
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    You might want to take a look at your money. It tells you exactly who owns it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  16. #19096

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    No it says who issues it. I own it.

  17. #19097

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    No it says who issues it. I own it.
    You don't even own your own thoughts though. They're all other people's in your case.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  18. #19098
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    No it says who issues it. I own it.
    You don't even own your own thoughts though. They're all other people's in your case.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    Shambling on the shoulders of Giants

  19. #19099

  20. #19100
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Lol, guess she shoulda had a shave. Perhaps getting in to gynecology was the best way for her to understand what it was like to have a pussy.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


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