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Thread: Political Correctness Stories

  1. #11441

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    No blame implies they are responsible for it. Not taking sensible precautions implies partial responsibility.
    Blame, responsibility and causality are all different things. When my normally well-trained dog tears you a new asshole when you walked past on the street, I'm responsibile. I'm not to blame though unless I commanded it to. And you are not to blame or responsible, but you walking past obviously was part of the cause.

    Victims who havent themselves acted criminally are obviously part of the cause (wrong place at the wrong time), can be partly responsible (unconscious due to drinking) but are never to blame.

    The fact that disagreement on this point persists is fucking stupid.

    Ok. So can I safely say that victims may well be responsible (or partly responsible) for a crime taking place, but the blame lies on the criminal? I mean, it's basically just semantics amounting to the same thing, but i can go for that for the sake of argument.
    I mean, this is all semantics as it is from the very beginning?

    but yes, and that's what I've been repeatedly trying to say too, if less concisely.
    Cool.

    hey, check it out. An argument on FHC reached a conclusion satisfactory to both sides. Its the dream!
    I hate semantics, they always cause shit like this.

  2. #11442
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    I mean sure if it helps people cope then we can assign a new meaning to the word. Nuance can be a good thing.


    

  3. #11443
    Hoggbert's Avatar
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    nah
    go away

  4. #11444
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    I think some of you have crossed wires here.

    Blame is a negatively connotated word for responsibility, but they functionally mean the same thing.

    People just are not liking blame and saying responsibility because they're used to blame being used in a negative sense.

  5. #11445
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    I mean, this is all semantics as it is from the very beginning?

    but yes, and that's what I've been repeatedly trying to say too, if less concisely.
    You still don't get it at all. Its not semantics at all - it goes to the very fundamental question of fault.

  6. #11446
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I think some of you have crossed wires here.

    Blame is a negatively connotated word for responsibility, but they functionally mean the same thing.

    People just are not liking blame and saying responsibility because they're used to blame being used in a negative sense.
    I have no words

  7. #11447
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I think some of you have crossed wires here.

    Blame is a negatively connotated word for responsibility, but they functionally mean the same thing.

    People just are not liking blame and saying responsibility because they're used to blame being used in a negative sense.
    Its much more definitive than that and it is absolutely not "just" a question of semantics or connotation.

    Blame = Responsibility + Fault.

    The question therefore is whether a victim can be at fault when they are criminally raped (or whatever). The answer is "no, you fucking throwback moron. The criminal rapist is solely at fault."


    If I were wrong about this, where are all the rape trials where the accused uses the defence of contributory negligence? "Yeah I raped her your honour, but she is partly to blame for walking home on her own, so reduce my sentence plz". This doesnt happen because the legal system at least isnt as fucking retarded as half the people in this thread.
    Last edited by Lallante; January 10 2017 at 01:26:21 PM.

  8. #11448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I think some of you have crossed wires here.

    Blame is a negatively connotated word for responsibility, but they functionally mean the same thing.

    People just are not liking blame and saying responsibility because they're used to blame being used in a negative sense.
    Its much more definitive than that. Blame = Responsibility + Fault.

    The question therefore is whether a victim can be at fault for their rape (or whatever). The answer is "no, you fucking moron".
    Okay but you can see how those two words might be confusing to a non-English native yes?

  9. #11449
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Yes, which is why I dont fucking weigh in assuming my opinion is gospel on highly important, controversial and subtle points of language in a dialect that is not my own.

  10. #11450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes, which is why I dont fucking weigh in assuming my opinion is gospel on highly important, controversial and subtle points of language in a dialect that is not my own.
    Okay but you also brought in rape completely unnecessarily because you know it will make the subject more emotive. If we instead talk about the context of being pickpocketed or having your car vandalised then it doesn't seem quite so bad to use the term blame, does it?

    Like I say, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the actual meaning of the words, it's more how people interpret them.

  11. #11451
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes, which is why I dont fucking weigh in assuming my opinion is gospel on highly important, controversial and subtle points of language in a dialect that is not my own.
    You seem upset that people don't agree with you on everything. I think you have only yourself to blame for that.


    

  12. #11452
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes, which is why I dont fucking weigh in assuming my opinion is gospel on highly important, controversial and subtle points of language in a dialect that is not my own.
    You seem upset that people don't agree with you on everything. I think you have only yourself to blame for that.
    By your definition not only are you also to blame, but so is Entrox (hosting the forum), Clamdongue (hosting its genesis in SHC), CCP (creating EVE), your Mom (giving birth to you) and your Mom's brother (your dad)

  13. #11453
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes, which is why I dont fucking weigh in assuming my opinion is gospel on highly important, controversial and subtle points of language in a dialect that is not my own.
    Okay but you also brought in rape completely unnecessarily because you know it will make the subject more emotive. If we instead talk about the context of being pickpocketed or having your car vandalised then it doesn't seem quite so bad to use the term blame, does it?

    Like I say, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the actual meaning of the words, it's more how people interpret them.
    From a legal perspective the distinction is just as important in, say, theft, as it is in rape. I agree rape is more evocative but so what?

  14. #11454
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes, which is why I dont fucking weigh in assuming my opinion is gospel on highly important, controversial and subtle points of language in a dialect that is not my own.
    You seem upset that people don't agree with you on everything. I think you have only yourself to blame for that.
    By your definition not only are you also to blame, but so is Entrox (hosting the forum), Clamdongue (hosting its genesis in SHC), CCP (creating EVE), your Mom (giving birth to you) and your Mom's brother (your dad)
    M8 dont drag my dad (your uncle) into this.


    

  15. #11455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes, which is why I dont fucking weigh in assuming my opinion is gospel on highly important, controversial and subtle points of language in a dialect that is not my own.
    Okay but you also brought in rape completely unnecessarily because you know it will make the subject more emotive. If we instead talk about the context of being pickpocketed or having your car vandalised then it doesn't seem quite so bad to use the term blame, does it?

    Like I say, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the actual meaning of the words, it's more how people interpret them.
    From a legal perspective the distinction is just as important in, say, theft, as it is in rape. I agree rape is more evocative but so what?
    So you deliberately used a more evocative example to push your point and create outrage where none existed.

  16. #11456
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    And he has only himself to blame.


    

  17. #11457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes, which is why I dont fucking weigh in assuming my opinion is gospel on highly important, controversial and subtle points of language in a dialect that is not my own.
    You seem upset that people don't agree with you on everything. I think you have only yourself to blame for that.
    By your definition not only are you also to blame, but so is Entrox (hosting the forum), Clamdongue (hosting its genesis in SHC), CCP (creating EVE), your Mom (giving birth to you) and your Mom's brother (your dad)
    yes
    "Teachers are teachers because they are pedos. Thats why they want to work in a job around children, its a well known fact." #Nonsesense

  18. #11458
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    TIL some people get mad about different words having different meanings. wtf is this 'it's just semantics' crap? we have different words for different things for a reason, if you're too lazy to use them properly that's your problem. if it's your second language and you didn't realise there was a distinction between terms, fair enough. but when someone who does know the language better than you points out your error, maybe learn from it instead of being a spaz.
    Last edited by Shiodome; January 10 2017 at 02:47:03 PM.

  19. #11459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    TIL some people get mad about different words having different meanings. wtf is this 'it's just semantics' crap? we have different words for different things for a reason, if you're too lazy to use them properly that's your problem.
    This is clearly a micro aggression.

  20. #11460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I think some of you have crossed wires here.

    Blame is a negatively connotated word for responsibility, but they functionally mean the same thing.

    People just are not liking blame and saying responsibility because they're used to blame being used in a negative sense.
    Its much more definitive than that. Blame = Responsibility + Fault.

    The question therefore is whether a victim can be at fault for their rape (or whatever). The answer is "no, you fucking moron".
    Okay but you can see how those two words might be confusing to a non-English native yes?
    You people forget that the same discussion also is perfectly valid in other languages.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

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