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Thread: Political Shots Fired Thread

  1. #15301

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    If you participate in the free market as a vendor you don't get to pick and choose customers based on your feelings.
    This is the most wrong thing I've read today. Of course you get to pick and choose. That's the whole fucking point. You do whatever you want until the market drives you out. If you decide not to bake cakes for gay people you can not only choose to do that but you can make that part of your marketing pitch to appeal to the religious to drive sales.

    You don't understand the "free market" at all if you think it means you're forced to do things because of some greater ideological principles. The goddamned point of the mythical free market is that you do whatever you want provided you stay afloat.

    This is the equivalent of those retarded carebears in eve who wanted to be able to limit market orders based on standings.
    What? No it's not. You've completely inverted the analogy. Carebares asking for rules to be applied to the market is the opposite of the free market.
    I strongly suspect it's implied you don't get to pick and choose if you don't want to limit yourself and suffer the consequences. If the bakers in this case look like dipshits to the general public and lose customers because of it they didn't act in their best interest and suffer the consequences, aka are being dumb.
    Sure, they have to face the consequences, that's also part of the free market. Customers can choose not to use them, in the same way that the shop is entirely free to choose to refuse certain business.
    Well, the law in parts of the U.S. disagrees, it may not in every state, but public accommodations law says that no, you do not have a right to refuse service unreasonably. Thus me saying if you don't want the gays to come, advertise yourself as a Christian organization. Don't advertise yourself as open to all and then kick the customer out after xe walked in the door. No, they want the best of both worlds. Remember that in the U.S. State constitutions are mostly free to extend further rights to citizens. This is one of them, at least where I live.
    Granted, specific laws may change things. Law > personal opinion is going to of course be the case. But that law isn't even remotely universal.

    I just realised i should add that i am actually against this state of affairs, and agree with your stance pretty much. It's just not the case everywhere.
    No totally. I see a lot of grey too. For example, someone mentioned an elderly couple running a B&B that refuse unmarried couples, either gay or straight. I'm OK with that. They are applying something fairly, and those are their rules. The thing is these businesses know they may lose business if they made their bigotry know up front, so they wanted to apply their morality without taking the PR hit, and that is why I see it as wrong, and agree with the law.
    Fair point.

  2. #15302
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    And just because I sadly feel the need to do this;

    We don't have to explain why those laws ARE on the books in roughly half the U.S. states, right? They aren't new laws.
    meh

  3. #15303

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    And just because I sadly feel the need to do this;

    We don't have to explain why those laws ARE on the books in roughly half the U.S. states, right? They aren't new laws.
    Tbh, i know little of the specifics of US hisotyr or the laws that govern it.

    However i'm going to take a stab at this by applying common sense. But because this is FHC, i still want to make it a bit offensive, and since you are Seth Efrican originally i will phrase it thusly:

    Because of the people that wouldn't serve the kaffirs?

  4. #15304
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    And just because I sadly feel the need to do this;

    We don't have to explain why those laws ARE on the books in roughly half the U.S. states, right? They aren't new laws.
    Tbh, i know little of the specifics of US hisotyr or the laws that govern it.

    However i'm going to take a stab at this by applying common sense. But because this is FHC, i still want to make it a bit offensive, and since you are Seth Efrican originally i will phrase it thusly:

    Because of the people that wouldn't serve the kaffirs?
    Ja.
    meh

  5. #15305
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Canadians are usually cooler.
    Thermonuclear Banana Split - A not-really-weekly Eclipse Phase campaign journal

  6. #15306
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I mean I dont think people should refuse either, but theres a difference between a sexuality and an opinion

  7. #15307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I mean I dont think people should refuse either, but theres a difference between a sexuality and an opinion
    I mean I don't think people who were born into the confederacy had any choice to change either.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  8. #15308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I mean I dont think people should refuse either, but theres a difference between a sexuality and an opinion
    I mean I don't think people who were born into the confederacy had any choice to change either.
    This is why i don't have you on ignore: you're like a deranged Dr Seuss

  9. #15309

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I mean I dont think people should refuse either, but theres a difference between a sexuality and an opinion
    I mean I don't think people who were born into the confederacy had any choice to change either.
    They actualy had. They weren't forced to directly or indirectly profit from the South's particular economic system nor were they forced to support that system by joining the CSA in large numbers. Yet they did. Not because they were forced by any external agents but because they supported that system and the South's cause.

    Of course one has to wonder what you were thinking when you compared being gay to supporting slavery.

  10. #15310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    Of course one has to wonder what you were thinking when you compared being gay to supporting slavery.
    Yeah thanks for that entirely unwelcome insight
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  11. #15311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    Of course one has to wonder what you were thinking when you compared being gay to supporting slavery.
    Pretty sure I've seen a few movies about soldiers from the confederacy trying to defect and getting executed and such.

    Ah... oh... I forgot... every white guy in the south of the United States at that time owned slaves (lol) and they could afford to move to the north if they didn't agree with slavery (trololol).
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  12. #15312

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinus View Post
    Of course one has to wonder what you were thinking when you compared being gay to supporting slavery.
    Pretty sure I've seen a few movies about soldiers from the confederacy trying to defect and getting executed and such.

    Ah... oh... I forgot... every white guy in the south of the United States at that time owned slaves (lol) and they could afford to move to the north if they didn't agree with slavery (trololol).
    Your trololol is unwarranted and ignorant.

    The CSA was primarily composed of volunteers. So in order to get into trouble for trying to defect as a CSA soldier one usualy had at first to join voluntarily at which point trying to defect had more or less the same consequences in all 19th century armies.
    Second, while far from every white man owned slaves or was part of a slave owning family the South's nature as a slave based economy means that indeed most white men, even if they weren't slavers, profited (or perhaps rather believed to profit?, the discussion about the economic effects of slavery on the poor whites is afaik not yet finished ) from the wealth or even merely the social order created by southern slavery, if not directly then indirectly.
    This does not mean that there weren't serious conflicts of interest between poor, nonslaveholding whites and the slaver aristocracy but for several reasons the later managed to convince the former into ultimately shedding their blood for the cause of slavery.

  13. #15313
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    CSA soldiers fought because they thought emancipation would destroy the South's economy and way of life. Abolitionists didn't help things by typically being from the north's industrial elite, so to the south it probably looked like a concerted effort to subjugate them.

  14. #15314
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    true slavery based economy has never been tried anyway

  15. #15315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I mean I dont think people should refuse either, but theres a difference between a sexuality and an opinion
    I see you're such a right winger that you think sexuality is somehow related to biology and not completely self defined. You misogynistic patriarchal pig. I bet you wouldn't even have sex with a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  16. #15316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I mean I dont think people should refuse either, but theres a difference between a sexuality and an opinion
    I see you're such a right winger that you think sexuality is somehow related to biology and not completely self defined. You misogynistic patriarchal pig. I bet you wouldn't even have sex with a man.
    Did you just assume Lal's gender and/or sexual orientation?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
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  17. #15317

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    Always amusing how the only ones constantly talking about this shit are you lot.

  18. #15318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Always amusing how the only ones constantly talking about this shit are you lot.
    Nice to see you've never turned on the toxic waste that is the news, the same way you can't read my posts.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  19. #15319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Always amusing how the only ones constantly talking about this shit are you lot.
    Professionally angry all the time

  20. #15320
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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    Is Isy really angry?

    Seems like a chill dude, just likes to take the piss. I can feel it in my loins.

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