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Thread: Political Shots Fired Thread

  1. #15281
    Smuggo
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    I've never seen a specific Muslim bakery but everyone should be allowed to get a Stalin cake regardless of what sky fairy the Baker is into.

  2. #15282
    Steph's Avatar
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    What if a gay couple asked you to bake them a wedding cake bearing the confederate flag?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Canadians are usually cooler.
    Thermonuclear Banana Split - A not-really-weekly Eclipse Phase campaign journal

  3. #15283
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Surely the free market enables the consumer to take his custom elsewhere if xe's refused service?
    I don't know, does it?

    I assume you're not quite the dunce you pretend to be that thinks this is only about cake, right?

    eg: How about you live in a rural area and the only car servicing place within 30 miles doesn't serve white cis-het scum like you? What are you gonna do? Push your car 30 miles to get fixed?

    K you Randed your bootstraps and pushed your car 30 miles. Go you. Shame it took 2 days and now you're fired. And no local lawyer wants to work for "people like you" so the local small business you work for didn't even pay you the money they owed.

    And the bank manager thinks you shouldn't be allowed anywhere there's children, so fuck you, pay the mortgage or get out of the bank's house


    Wow, life is tough when you're a mild-mannered white dude with a wife and kid trying to get by and not forcing your ideologies on anyone else, isn't it?

    Wow, it's almost as if your argument is a big nothing burger. A better analogy would be me turning up at the only spray painting shop in 30 miles, owned by a radical christian pastor and asking for this to be done to my chipped and rusty car:

    Instead he just offers me a plain respray.

    Nobody was refused a cake, a car part or a room for the night.
    The customer just wasn't 'right' in some cases.


  4. #15284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    "There''s no realistic chance of me ever being effectively discriminated against so I just can't understand why we need any kind of protection from discrimination"

    "I voted leave because the EU was discriminating against BRITAIN"
    Difference between offering a commodity or neutral service, and that of creating something unique that also goes against your beliefs.

    They aren't being prevented from going to a store and buying a generic cake, they arr trying to force someone to make a specific cake. The car service analogy fails as the service provided is generic.

    That is, unless the car is the samr one Hitler used and the mechanic's grandfather died in a concentration camp.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  5. #15285
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    What if a gay couple asked you to bake them a wedding cake bearing the confederate flag?
    Sure.

    But I'm shit at decorating cakes.

  6. #15286
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    But is it still OK to order swastika bagels at the jewish deli?

    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  7. #15287

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    Larkonis sure going full out on this huh.

    Yawn.

  8. #15288
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    wassat lassie, precious snowflakes being precious and snowflakes?

    would send to gulag/10


    they can moan and bitch til the world ends or they can go and get their stupid cake elsewhere

    i think we know what they chose

  9. #15289
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Q: Why is mexican food cultural appropriation?

    A:
      Spoiler:
    Because it is nacho cheese.
    Not gonna lie, i sniggered a bit. So bad, i applaud you.
    That's... clever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  10. #15290
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Q: Why is mexican food cultural appropriation?

    A:
      Spoiler:
    Because it is nacho cheese.
    Not gonna lie, i sniggered a bit. So bad, i applaud you.
    That's... clever.


    Sent from my CUBOT CHEETAH 2 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.

  11. #15291
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    If you participate in the free market as a vendor you don't get to pick and choose customers based on your feelings.
    This is the most wrong thing I've read today. Of course you get to pick and choose. That's the whole fucking point. You do whatever you want until the market drives you out. If you decide not to bake cakes for gay people you can not only choose to do that but you can make that part of your marketing pitch to appeal to the religious to drive sales.

    You don't understand the "free market" at all if you think it means you're forced to do things because of some greater ideological principles. The goddamned point of the mythical free market is that you do whatever you want provided you stay afloat.

    This is the equivalent of those retarded carebears in eve who wanted to be able to limit market orders based on standings.
    What? No it's not. You've completely inverted the analogy. Carebares asking for rules to be applied to the market is the opposite of the free market.
    Last edited by Frug; July 14 2017 at 05:37:26 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  12. #15292
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Don't mind me just adding this thread to my subscriptions again

  13. #15293

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    If you participate in the free market as a vendor you don't get to pick and choose customers based on your feelings.
    This is the most wrong thing I've read today. Of course you get to pick and choose. That's the whole fucking point. You do whatever you want until the market drives you out. If you decide not to bake cakes for gay people you can not only choose to do that but you can make that part of your marketing pitch to appeal to the religious to drive sales.

    You don't understand the "free market" at all if you think it means you're forced to do things because of some greater ideological principles. The goddamned point of the mythical free market is that you do whatever you want provided you stay afloat.

    This is the equivalent of those retarded carebears in eve who wanted to be able to limit market orders based on standings.
    What? No it's not. You've completely inverted the analogy. Carebares asking for rules to be applied to the market is the opposite of the free market.
    I strongly suspect it's implied you don't get to pick and choose if you don't want to limit yourself and suffer the consequences. If the bakers in this case look like dipshits to the general public and lose customers because of it they didn't act in their best interest and suffer the consequences, aka are being dumb.

  14. #15294

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    If you participate in the free market as a vendor you don't get to pick and choose customers based on your feelings.
    This is the most wrong thing I've read today. Of course you get to pick and choose. That's the whole fucking point. You do whatever you want until the market drives you out. If you decide not to bake cakes for gay people you can not only choose to do that but you can make that part of your marketing pitch to appeal to the religious to drive sales.

    You don't understand the "free market" at all if you think it means you're forced to do things because of some greater ideological principles. The goddamned point of the mythical free market is that you do whatever you want provided you stay afloat.

    This is the equivalent of those retarded carebears in eve who wanted to be able to limit market orders based on standings.
    What? No it's not. You've completely inverted the analogy. Carebares asking for rules to be applied to the market is the opposite of the free market.
    I strongly suspect it's implied you don't get to pick and choose if you don't want to limit yourself and suffer the consequences. If the bakers in this case look like dipshits to the general public and lose customers because of it they didn't act in their best interest and suffer the consequences, aka are being dumb.
    Sure, they have to face the consequences, that's also part of the free market. Customers can choose not to use them, in the same way that the shop is entirely free to choose to refuse certain business.

  15. #15295
    Keckers's Avatar
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    The free market is bullshit and doesn't exist anywhere though. At best it's useful as a thought experiment at worst it just leads to people talking about crony capitalism as if there can be any other kind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  16. #15296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The free market is bullshit and doesn't exist anywhere though. At best it's useful as a thought experiment at worst it just leads to people talking about crony capitalism as if there can be any other kind.

  17. #15297
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    If you participate in the free market as a vendor you don't get to pick and choose customers based on your feelings.
    This is the most wrong thing I've read today. Of course you get to pick and choose. That's the whole fucking point. You do whatever you want until the market drives you out. If you decide not to bake cakes for gay people you can not only choose to do that but you can make that part of your marketing pitch to appeal to the religious to drive sales.

    You don't understand the "free market" at all if you think it means you're forced to do things because of some greater ideological principles. The goddamned point of the mythical free market is that you do whatever you want provided you stay afloat.

    This is the equivalent of those retarded carebears in eve who wanted to be able to limit market orders based on standings.
    What? No it's not. You've completely inverted the analogy. Carebares asking for rules to be applied to the market is the opposite of the free market.
    I strongly suspect it's implied you don't get to pick and choose if you don't want to limit yourself and suffer the consequences. If the bakers in this case look like dipshits to the general public and lose customers because of it they didn't act in their best interest and suffer the consequences, aka are being dumb.
    Sure, they have to face the consequences, that's also part of the free market. Customers can choose not to use them, in the same way that the shop is entirely free to choose to refuse certain business.
    Well, the law in parts of the U.S. disagrees, it may not in every state, but public accommodations law says that no, you do not have a right to refuse service unreasonably. Thus me saying if you don't want the gays to come, advertise yourself as a Christian organization. Don't advertise yourself as open to all and then kick the customer out after xe walked in the door. No, they want the best of both worlds. Remember that in the U.S. State constitutions are mostly free to extend further rights to citizens. This is one of them, at least where I live.
    meh

  18. #15298

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    If you participate in the free market as a vendor you don't get to pick and choose customers based on your feelings.
    This is the most wrong thing I've read today. Of course you get to pick and choose. That's the whole fucking point. You do whatever you want until the market drives you out. If you decide not to bake cakes for gay people you can not only choose to do that but you can make that part of your marketing pitch to appeal to the religious to drive sales.

    You don't understand the "free market" at all if you think it means you're forced to do things because of some greater ideological principles. The goddamned point of the mythical free market is that you do whatever you want provided you stay afloat.

    This is the equivalent of those retarded carebears in eve who wanted to be able to limit market orders based on standings.
    What? No it's not. You've completely inverted the analogy. Carebares asking for rules to be applied to the market is the opposite of the free market.
    I strongly suspect it's implied you don't get to pick and choose if you don't want to limit yourself and suffer the consequences. If the bakers in this case look like dipshits to the general public and lose customers because of it they didn't act in their best interest and suffer the consequences, aka are being dumb.
    Sure, they have to face the consequences, that's also part of the free market. Customers can choose not to use them, in the same way that the shop is entirely free to choose to refuse certain business.
    Well, the law in parts of the U.S. disagrees, it may not in every state, but public accommodations law says that no, you do not have a right to refuse service unreasonably. Thus me saying if you don't want the gays to come, advertise yourself as a Christian organization. Don't advertise yourself as open to all and then kick the customer out after xe walked in the door. No, they want the best of both worlds. Remember that in the U.S. State constitutions are mostly free to extend further rights to citizens. This is one of them, at least where I live.
    Granted, specific laws may change things. Law > personal opinion is going to of course be the case. But that law isn't even remotely universal.

    I just realised i should add that i am actually against this state of affairs, and agree with your stance pretty much. It's just not the case everywhere.

  19. #15299
    Smuggo
    Guest
    A lot of people ignoring the historical context here. In the past it was commonplace for certain people to be refused service merely because of who they are. Hence governments had to regulate against and make service or product providers serve everyone equally. Do you really want to go back to the days of "no blacks, no Irish" in shop/pub windows?

    I'm not really sure how making a cake, regardless of what is on it, in any way affects your ability to be a Christian or any other religion. If you're that incapable of separating your professional and private life you should probably not be in business.

  20. #15300
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    If you participate in the free market as a vendor you don't get to pick and choose customers based on your feelings.
    This is the most wrong thing I've read today. Of course you get to pick and choose. That's the whole fucking point. You do whatever you want until the market drives you out. If you decide not to bake cakes for gay people you can not only choose to do that but you can make that part of your marketing pitch to appeal to the religious to drive sales.

    You don't understand the "free market" at all if you think it means you're forced to do things because of some greater ideological principles. The goddamned point of the mythical free market is that you do whatever you want provided you stay afloat.

    This is the equivalent of those retarded carebears in eve who wanted to be able to limit market orders based on standings.
    What? No it's not. You've completely inverted the analogy. Carebares asking for rules to be applied to the market is the opposite of the free market.
    I strongly suspect it's implied you don't get to pick and choose if you don't want to limit yourself and suffer the consequences. If the bakers in this case look like dipshits to the general public and lose customers because of it they didn't act in their best interest and suffer the consequences, aka are being dumb.
    Sure, they have to face the consequences, that's also part of the free market. Customers can choose not to use them, in the same way that the shop is entirely free to choose to refuse certain business.
    Well, the law in parts of the U.S. disagrees, it may not in every state, but public accommodations law says that no, you do not have a right to refuse service unreasonably. Thus me saying if you don't want the gays to come, advertise yourself as a Christian organization. Don't advertise yourself as open to all and then kick the customer out after xe walked in the door. No, they want the best of both worlds. Remember that in the U.S. State constitutions are mostly free to extend further rights to citizens. This is one of them, at least where I live.
    Granted, specific laws may change things. Law > personal opinion is going to of course be the case. But that law isn't even remotely universal.

    I just realised i should add that i am actually against this state of affairs, and agree with your stance pretty much. It's just not the case everywhere.
    No totally. I see a lot of grey too. For example, someone mentioned an elderly couple running a B&B that refuse unmarried couples, either gay or straight. I'm OK with that. They are applying something fairly, and those are their rules. The thing is these businesses know they may lose business if they made their bigotry know up front, so they wanted to apply their morality without taking the PR hit, and that is why I see it as wrong, and agree with the law.
    meh

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