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Thread: Political Shots Fired Thread

  1. #16081
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post

    I mean, it's under "vision" so I assume that's their goal to work towards

    Don't see the problem with it
    I never talk about the it.

  2. #16082
    Smuggo
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    The one thing we gather from this is that "positive" discrimination is still discrimination and unsurprisingly causes a lot of resentment and other problems.

  3. #16083
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    The one thing we gather from this is that "positive" discrimination is still discrimination and unsurprisingly causes a lot of resentment and other problems.
    Much like how the rich feel victimised when they have to pay taxes to only be vastly better off rather than inconceivably better off, not being able to shit on other kinds of people as much as they used to feels like oppression to people who have grown up being accustomed to being able to shit on other kinds of people as much as they liked.

    tl;dr: get over it, cunts. And stop whining that you're not allowed to shit on people as much as you used to, you playground level unlikeable dog anuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  4. #16084
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    The one thing we gather from this is that "positive" discrimination is still discrimination and unsurprisingly causes a lot of resentment and other problems.
    Much like how the rich feel victimised when they have to pay taxes to only be vastly better off rather than inconceivably better off, not being able to shit on other kinds of people as much as they used to feels like oppression to people who have grown up being accustomed to being able to shit on other kinds of people as much as they liked.

    tl;dr: get over it, cunts. And stop whining that you're not allowed to shit on people as much as you used to, you playground level unlikeable dog anuses.
    Eh? It's not about shitting on people but if you make it a policy that one group gets special treatment then you are going to piss people off. Equal rights has evolved into shitting on people who are defined as "priveleged" regardless of whether they really are or not.

  5. #16085
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    The one thing we gather from this is that "positive" discrimination is still discrimination and unsurprisingly causes a lot of resentment and other problems.
    Bourgeois fascism
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  6. #16086

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    regardless of whether they really are or not.
    lol

  7. #16087
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Are you for real? Pretty much all major businesses do. Because women and minorities are massively underrepresented at higher levels and you need someone championing policies to help rectify that.
    Why?

    There are a number of female CEOs and directors filtering through into various positions now that those pesky pale, male and stale folk are dying off and retiring, these are people who would have started their careers in the 70s and 80s when more equality legislation was brought in. There are no structural barriers to these women achieving and if they want to earn the big bucks and make it into those positions they are going to have to do what men do and make sacrifices when it comes to the family side of things (I heard one woman on the radio once harping on about late night business dinners interfering with her spending time with her children). We're not quite there yet but ham fisted attempts to shoe horn in gender parity as quickly as possible are probably doing more harm than good.

    As for the culture in particular male dominated professions being 'toxic' for women, have you ever, as a man, worked in an office full of women?

    With regards to minorities I'd expect that (inb4 Keckers) there's more of a class issue there. I wonder how many google employees of any flavour had parents earning <$Xk (a suitable low income figure). Given that the main beneficiaries of AA and various diversity programmes come from reasonably well to do backgrounds is Mr 'Dr's Son' Patel on the board really adding more diversity of thought than say, Mr 'White Trash' Jones would?
    To take gender as an example. There are a very very tiny number of female CEOs and directors, and of those that are there some may have benefited from exactly the kind of policies I am talking about (not to get promotions they don't deserve but rather to counteract unfair negatives that prevent promotions).

    Take my profession as an example. Up to and including my level, which is now considered relatively senior, women outnumber men and there is definitely, measurably with various metrics, no material difference in ability by gender.

    Everything above me, women are a tiny minority, certainly less than 1/4.

    This has nothing to do with ability and everything to do with a job and social structure that makes it impossible to be in a senior role at a high end business and also be a primary or even equal caregiver to children without a live in full time nanny. Add to that a huge social pressure on women to raise kids and men to provide and you have a recipe for few women.

    Conservatives explain this away as "just women's choices". But those choices are hardly unconstrained - thousands of years of social gender roles that are still heavily entrenched, many legal structures (UK women get ~10 times more parental leave than men), social pressure from peers, residual unconscious bias in recruitment and promotion etc all massively influence how women (and men) choose.

    I work in 2 person offices. Over the last 5 years I've shared 3 times with women who were more senior than me and got pregnant while working here. Maternity leave is generous and they all intended to (and did) come back to work afterwards. All 3 have now left. These were my friends, and I've seen them since they left. All three agree that inflexibility from senior partners/management/HR and a general culture which punishes parents from trying to balance priorities with work were the reason they left - all three went on to materially different jobs.

    That's not a free choice, that's an imposed social and working structure that systematically disadvantages primary caregivers, which for social and legal reasons are overwhelmingly women.

    Diversity champions / VPs etc are there to try to remove the irrational and unreasonable elements of these barriers / disadvantages. In 2017 we don't need a presenteeism culture - working from home is realistic and effective for the kind of work I do where it is basically impossible to shirk as you are personally responsible for projects, not a set number of work hours. Policies that encourage men to take fatherhood leave. Policies that help people juggle parenthood and work responsibilites. etc etc

    Literally no-one has mentioned male dominated professions being toxic for women. And no-one is suggesting female only offices. So fuck off with that shit.

    Similarly race - there is overwhelming evidence that interviewers rate highly people with similar ancillary charicteristics to themselves. Tall interviewers rate tall candidates higher, etc. Huge levels of unconscious bias. If you have very few senior people from minority groups, you arent going to recruit many, all other things being equal. You NEED policies to counteract these effects to level the playing field.

    Right wingers like you tend to assume affirmative action or diversity policies means "fuck how good they are, look at their skin colour - HIRED". They dont. They mean identifying bias, which can be done statistically and such info can be bought commercially from consultants, and then using that information to craft policies to counteract that bias. Done correctly this means you get the absolute best candidates, instead of "mediocre but white and male like us" candidates.

  8. #16088
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    The one thing we gather from this is that "positive" discrimination is still discrimination and unsurprisingly causes a lot of resentment and other problems.
    Much like how the rich feel victimised when they have to pay taxes to only be vastly better off rather than inconceivably better off, not being able to shit on other kinds of people as much as they used to feels like oppression to people who have grown up being accustomed to being able to shit on other kinds of people as much as they liked.

    tl;dr: get over it, cunts. And stop whining that you're not allowed to shit on people as much as you used to, you playground level unlikeable dog anuses.
    Eh? It's not about shitting on people but if you make it a policy that one group gets special treatment then you are going to piss people off. Equal rights has evolved into shitting on people who are defined as "priveleged" regardless of whether they really are or not.
    Poor people are poor because they make bad choices

    There are only two genders

    Both are incorrect statements that only an unlikable dogs anus would make, you down-punching hypocrite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
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  9. #16089
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    One statement impacts a huge % of the population and convinces them to consistently vote against their best interests and secures a hegemonic ruling class made up of rent seekers.

    The other is a side issue affecting a tiny portion of the populaiton which acts a dog whistle for reactionaries and serves to distract and cause infighting among those in servitude to debt products.

    Both are problematic but you've got to prioritise you battles somehow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  10. #16090
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    The one thing we gather from this is that "positive" discrimination is still discrimination and unsurprisingly causes a lot of resentment and other problems.
    Much like how the rich feel victimised when they have to pay taxes to only be vastly better off rather than inconceivably better off, not being able to shit on other kinds of people as much as they used to feels like oppression to people who have grown up being accustomed to being able to shit on other kinds of people as much as they liked.

    tl;dr: get over it, cunts. And stop whining that you're not allowed to shit on people as much as you used to, you playground level unlikeable dog anuses.
    Eh? It's not about shitting on people but if you make it a policy that one group gets special treatment then you are going to piss people off. Equal rights has evolved into shitting on people who are defined as "priveleged" regardless of whether they really are or not.
    Poor people are poor because they make bad choices

    There are only two genders

    Both are incorrect statements that only an unlikable dogs anus would make, you down-punching hypocrite.
    I've never said poor people are poor because they make bad choices. I have actively argued against such a position my entire life.

    And there are only two genders, this is simple science.

    Also you like to throw abuse around at people, but have little to say about anything yourself. The Scottish Isyel.

  11. #16091

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    One statement impacts a huge % of the population and convinces them to consistently vote against their best interests and secures a hegemonic ruling class made up of rent seekers.

    The other is a side issue affecting a tiny portion of the populaiton which acts a dog whistle for reactionaries and serves to distract and cause infighting among those in servitude to debt products.

    Both are problematic but you've got to prioritise you battles somehow.
    That's fucking easy when one doesn't affect you and you don't give a shit.

    Also when your mind is so one track no other issue than the class struggle exists.

  12. #16092
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    One statement impacts a huge % of the population and convinces them to consistently vote against their best interests and secures a hegemonic ruling class made up of rent seekers.

    The other is a side issue affecting a tiny portion of the populaiton which acts a dog whistle for reactionaries and serves to distract and cause infighting among those in servitude to debt products.

    Both are problematic but you've got to prioritise you battles somehow.
    That's fucking easy when one doesn't affect you and you don't give a shit.

    Also when your mind is so one track no other issue than the class struggle exists.
    Please explain how emancipating the working classes will only affect cis-gendered people?

    You want to focus your resources on the important battles. Transgender rights are important but identity politics is hugely distracting from the actual large scale problems facing the human race. Namely economic inequality and climate change. Priorities are important.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  13. #16093
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    But comrade keckers you must realize that having a panfluid gender unicorn as a CEO would solve all the worlds problems!

  14. #16094
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    But comrade keckers you must realize that having a panfluid gender unicorn as a CEO would solve all the worlds problems!
    The world will only be fair once they can also steal surplus value from the workers while socialising their business losses.

  15. #16095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    But comrade keckers you must realize that having a panfluid gender unicorn as a CEO would solve all the worlds problems!
    It solves the capitalists problems by subverting social consciousness among the workers I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  16. #16096
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Oh hey we're back to shitty jokes that normalize abusive behaviour

  17. #16097
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Oh hey we're back to shitty political themes which set back the cause of progressive movements and exist to allow accumulation of social capital in the theatre of bourgeois democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  18. #16098
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Oh hey we're back to shitty political themes which set back the cause of progressive movements and exist to allow accumulation of social capital in the theatre of bourgeois democracy.
    True communism has never been tried comrade

    Maybe next time it won't result in a dictatorship or mass death

  19. #16099
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Oh hey we're back to shitty political themes which set back the cause of progressive movements and exist to allow accumulation of social capital in the theatre of bourgeois democracy.
    True communism has never been tried comrade

    Maybe next time it won't result in a dictatorship or mass death
    You're boring.

    I'm not sure I've ever advocated any specific form of regime change, I just occasionally make simple dialectical comparisons and meme about gulags and kulaks. That you can't tell the difference between them isn't my fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  20. #16100
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Oh hey we're back to shitty political themes which set back the cause of progressive movements and exist to allow accumulation of social capital in the theatre of bourgeois democracy.
    True communism has never been tried comrade

    Maybe next time it won't result in a dictatorship or mass death
    You're boring.

    I'm not sure I've ever advocated any specific form of regime change, I just occasionally make simple dialectical comparisons and meme about gulags and kulaks. That you can't tell the difference between them isn't my fault.
    Not as boring as your tone deaf "CLASS WAR, CLASS WAR NOW!" sperging in every single fucking thread on this forum

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