Gun Thread (AK appreciation)

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Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane

All of the things Obama is proposing/doing right now are all hopelessly meek. But the NRA and the gunnuts are all going crazy over it because they know that it represents the thin end of the wedge. They're all '2nd amendment' hurr-durr, NO limitations on guns whatsoever (even though there are already a large amount of laws about firearms on the books. All not enforced and unenforceable. Hell, ATF doesn't even have a director!). But the moment that has been done, then that argument falls away. As soon as 'some limitations' are possible, more will follow. That this actually is a good thing doesn't, ofcourse, matter to them at all.

So the whole strategy is to keep the discussion as irrational as possible for as long as possible. Just so that rational arguments don't gain a foothold. Talk irrational nonsense about video-games, guns in the classroom, lack of mental health provisions, tyranny, whatever. Just as long as you keep shouting out the rational discussion. Because if they don't it is all over for the 'one-gun-in-each-pisspot' crowd. And that's going to cost the gunlobby and manufacturers a lot of money. Which is what it is all about in the end.

Eventually the US will have to come to grips with the absurd notion that the 'freedom' to own a gun is not the basis of all other freedoms (enshrined in the constitution). This is going to be an uphill struggle because the gunlobby has been working so hard and assiduously to implant this idea in the American psyche. You can wonder if it is still possible to get rid of it entirely. Be that as it may, lest the US want to be confronted by massacres like in Newport on a weekly basis, something has to be done about the massive amount of firearms lying about (to the tune of 0.88 guns per US citizen).

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this is the wrong thread for this

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Originally Posted by Varcaus

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Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane

All of the things Obama is proposing/doing right now are all hopelessly meek. But the NRA and the gunnuts are all going crazy over it because they know that it represents the thin end of the wedge. They're all '2nd amendment' hurr-durr, NO limitations on guns whatsoever (even though there are already a large amount of laws about firearms on the books. All not enforced and unenforceable. Hell, ATF doesn't even have a director!). But the moment that has been done, then that argument falls away. As soon as 'some limitations' are possible, more will follow. That this actually is a good thing doesn't, ofcourse, matter to them at all.

So the whole strategy is to keep the discussion as irrational as possible for as long as possible. Just so that rational arguments don't gain a foothold. Talk irrational nonsense about video-games, guns in the classroom, lack of mental health provisions, tyranny, whatever. Just as long as you keep shouting out the rational discussion. Because if they don't it is all over for the 'one-gun-in-each-pisspot' crowd. And that's going to cost the gunlobby and manufacturers a lot of money. Which is what it is all about in the end.

Eventually the US will have to come to grips with the absurd notion that the 'freedom' to own a gun is not the basis of all other freedoms (enshrined in the constitution). This is going to be an uphill struggle because the gunlobby has been working so hard and assiduously to implant this idea in the American psyche. You can wonder if it is still possible to get rid of it entirely. Be that as it may, lest the US want to be confronted by massacres like in Newport on a weekly basis, something has to be done about the massive amount of firearms lying about (to the tune of 0.88 guns per US citizen).

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this is the wrong thread for this

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There isn't one outside serious business

Don't shit this one up then make a new one.

This is Razor's thread, he doesn't seem offended by discussion of gun legislation.

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Originally Posted by Paradox

This is Razor's thread, he doesn't seem offended by discussion of gun legislation.

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Gun legislation is a perfectly acceptable subject for a thread about guns imo. Just as long as it has enough gun content to still be a gun thread and not a gun legislation thread.

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Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane

All of the things Obama is proposing/doing right now are all hopelessly meek. But the NRA and the gunnuts are all going crazy over it because they know that it represents the thin end of the wedge. They're all '2nd amendment' hurr-durr, NO limitations on guns whatsoever (even though there are already a large amount of laws about firearms on the books. All not enforced and unenforceable. Hell, ATF doesn't even have a director!). But the moment that has been done, then that argument falls away. As soon as 'some limitations' are possible, more will follow. That this actually is a good thing doesn't, ofcourse, matter to them at all.

So the whole strategy is to keep the discussion as irrational as possible for as long as possible. Just so that rational arguments don't gain a foothold. Talk irrational nonsense about video-games, guns in the classroom, lack of mental health provisions, tyranny, whatever. Just as long as you keep shouting out the rational discussion. Because if they don't it is all over for the 'one-gun-in-each-pisspot' crowd. And that's going to cost the gunlobby and manufacturers a lot of money. Which is what it is all about in the end.

Eventually the US will have to come to grips with the absurd notion that the 'freedom' to own a gun is not the basis of all other freedoms (enshrined in the constitution). This is going to be an uphill struggle because the gunlobby has been working so hard and assiduously to implant this idea in the American psyche. You can wonder if it is still possible to get rid of it entirely. Be that as it may, lest the US want to be confronted by massacres like in Newport on a weekly basis, something has to be done about the massive amount of firearms lying about (to the tune of 0.88 guns per US citizen).

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Take this shit to the serious business forum.

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

There isn't one outside serious business

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Barth has access.

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Originally Posted by CastleBravo

You don't have to go through any of the paperwork crap to own a car.

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What state do you live in where you don't have to at least transfer the title (a legal process with government control and oversight) to transfer ownership in a private sale? And when purchasing from a dealer, new or used, they (generally? always?) aren't allowed to sell you the car without proof of license and proof of insurance, whether you intend to ever actually drive the car or not.

Yes, there are more controls on automotive ownership than on firearms ownership. Yes, that's a bit rediculous.

Sorry to further shit up Raz0r's thread...going to apply for serious business access :oops:

Raz0r, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the good ol' 1911. Also, for you enthusiasts, do you call it the browning 1911 for who concieved the weapon, or the colt 1911 for who originally manufactured it? Which is proper?

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Originally Posted by Garreck

What state do you live in where you don't have to at least transfer the title (a legal process with government control and oversight) to transfer ownership in a private sale? And when purchasing from a dealer, new or used, they (generally? always?) aren't allowed to sell you the car without proof of license and proof of insurance, whether you intend to ever actually drive the car or not.

Yes, there are more controls on automotive ownership than on firearms ownership. Yes, that's a bit rediculous.

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In California you need to find an FFL dealer both parties trust, let them hold the gun for 10 days, pay the dealer, pay the transfer fee, and then wonder why you didn't just spend another 10% to buy a brand new one. As far as I know, the dealer registers the purchase with the states department of something (justice?), and you can fill out some form to see what guns they think you have registered to your name to check (have fun changing it if there's something wrong). I don't know how that's less regulation than buying a car, which amounts to giving money to the guy and then running the form through the DMV (no 3rd party involved). In fact, I could see how a lot of people would rather just sell the gun to their friend for cash rather than go through all the fees and red tape.

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Originally Posted by Garreck

do you call it the browning 1911 for who concieved the weapon, or the colt 1911 for who originally manufactured it? Which is proper?

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I've always heard it called colt 1911.

Call it by whoever manufactured the one you're talking about. Otherwise just Model 1911

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Originally Posted by Paradox

This is Razor's thread, he doesn't seem offended by discussion of gun legislation.

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I got infracted for it.

Take the discussion to facebook or srs bsns or wherever.

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Originally Posted by dpidcoe

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Originally Posted by Garreck

What state do you live in where you don't have to at least transfer the title (a legal process with government control and oversight) to transfer ownership in a private sale? And when purchasing from a dealer, new or used, they (generally? always?) aren't allowed to sell you the car without proof of license and proof of insurance, whether you intend to ever actually drive the car or not.

Yes, there are more controls on automotive ownership than on firearms ownership. Yes, that's a bit rediculous.

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In California you need to find an FFL dealer both parties trust, let them hold the gun for 10 days, pay the dealer, pay the transfer fee, and then wonder why you didn't just spend another 10% to buy a brand new one. As far as I know, the dealer registers the purchase with the states department of something (justice?), and you can fill out some form to see what guns they think you have registered to your name to check (have fun changing it if there's something wrong). I don't know how that's less regulation than buying a car, which amounts to giving money to the guy and then running the form through the DMV (no 3rd party involved). In fact, I could see how a lot of people would rather just sell the gun to their friend for cash rather than go through all the fees and red tape.

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Dealer registers the firearm with the Dept. of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) which is a federal department. Local laws may require that the dealer also submit a different but similar form to their own database. The dealer isn't required to set a price on how much he charges to do a transfer. He may charge a much as he chooses or outright deny you the service if he feels like it since you aren't purchasing one of his firearms.

Registration and inspection of a motor vehicle is for taxation purposes. The taxes go towards maintaining and improving public roads and facilities. Transfer fees and any tax stamps for exotic firearms are taxes that go towards......fuck if I know but it isn't going towards maintaining public shooting ranges.

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Also, for you enthusiasts, do you call it the browning 1911 for who concieved the weapon, or the colt 1911 for who originally manufactured it? Which is proper?

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It's an M1911. Colt got the main contract but has since been copied by everyone else. A Kimber is just an M1911 in a stainless steel frame. Sort of like how the M-16 was made by Eugene Stoner but Colt was producing them for the military since the beginning. It's still just an M-16.

The Marines went full retard and are starting to reissue an M1911 pattern pistol called the M45. Cost savings was definitely not something they were looking for since there are reliable modern handguns chambered in .45 with a larger capacity and more safety features. Granted, I love my Colt Commander, but I would rather take a Glock 37 or M&P 45 into combat.

Nostalgia is a bitch...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hXXJOxaWga...45-Handgun.jpg

Deleted, didn't see the request to stop discussing the legislation aspect. Apologies.

*edit* oops

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

Transfer fees and any tax stamps for exotic firearms are taxes that go towards......fuck if I know but it isn't going towards maintaining public shooting ranges.

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Actually, there's a public range near me that's maintained half by the National Forest Service and half by the BATFE(apparently their new name, they didn't like being a TLA). Mostly, the BATFE's interest is catching people with illegal weapons, to which it seems that range is a magnet.

:Tabletz:

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

Cost savings was definitely not something they were looking for since there are reliable modern handguns chambered in .45 with a larger capacity and more safety features. Granted, I love my Colt Commander, but I would rather take a Glock 37 or M&P 45 into combat.

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Yeah, more *bang* before *click* is always good.

Glock Vector Industries developed a version of the glock 17 that I'm quite interested in, particularly because of the modified backstrap and textured grip...but it's quite pricey for what it is. They call it the PV17. :tactical: I have smallish hands, so where a single-stack 1911 works, most high capacity .45 setups are a little unweildy. If I can't envelop the weapon I don't feel like I'm in control. 9mm on the other hand...

Thy should have upgraded to 10mm Auto tbh. A Glock 20 shooting 10mm makes a 45 ACP 1911 look downright anemic.

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Originally Posted by Jack Dant

I was staying away from politics in this topic, but since everyone else is doing it...

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Originally Posted by Tellenta

to reintroduce an expired ban on new purchases of "military-style" assault weapons, such as those used in several recent mass shootings Si

limit ammunition magazines to 10 rounds Fence

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Why do you think pistol grips are more dangerous than 30 round magazines? In fact, why are pistol grips dangerous at all?

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Because there are 12 round magazines which are common.

edit: I'll take the free infraction, just felt like answering.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...02113361_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sacul

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...02113361_n.jpg

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I remember about 10 years ago some dude in canada registered his soldering gun in the gun registry for the lulz. Canadian government wasn't too happy.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbu...sunami-warning

Some how this getting buried in political shit is less than fitting. Did not get the attention it deserved.