You gotta be pretty dumb to expect smoothness from russian weaponry (actually anything).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bared
Printable View
You gotta be pretty dumb to expect smoothness from russian weaponry (actually anything).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bared
Think of it more like this: You know how some people are insanely pro 9mm and others loathe it? Or how some people think Glock is the greatest thing since the invention of firearms while others won't touch them. Its like that with the Mauser vs Mosin crowd. I think Mosin-Nagants are a cheap imitation of the Mausers. Sure, they can be accurized, sure the Russian snipers did some damage, but the Mauser is the better rifle in every way. I've yet to see a logical argument for the Mosin's case. The big objective value, is that Mausers are clean, easy actions. Mosins show their cheap wannabe-ness in the lack thereof. I hate them. Its like "Why buy a ricer when the Audi R8 is the same price?" Besides, its more fun collecting Mausers. By the time I die, I hope to have at least one of each. Oh, and Remington 700's. I hate those, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by RazoRYou gotta be pretty dumb to expect smoothness from russian weaponry (actually anything).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bared
For the Record, I am well aware that my hatred is purely irrational and possibly based on my bias against anything even remotely russian, especially anything from russia's 50 year losing streak. "Dude, lets fight France, England and Ottoman Turks! Oh, we lost... Hey, so, lets get in a fight with japan... oh we lost? Lets fight Germany!!! We're losing? Oh, lets have a civil war!" You know, THAT country. Where cars were made using MOTORCYCLE engines... I digress.
http://1bi.us/eg8Quote:
Originally Posted by Bared
You see, that's an actual arguement.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaredI told you it was a totally irrational hatred I rationalize away by the lack of smooth action.Quote:
But implying mosin that was adopted for service 4 years before M98's action was patented is the latter's knock-off is not.
Actually, most of the m/98's feed is taken from the 1880 experimental model (of which the 1884 model belongs, the grand father of the Gewehr 98). Which later became the fairly successful Mauser Argentine 91. Which beats Mosin by how many years?Quote:
Originally Posted by RazoRYou see, that's an actual arguement.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaredI told you it was a totally irrational hatred I rationalize away by the lack of smooth action.Quote:
But implying mosin that was adopted for service 4 years before M98's action was patented is the latter's knock-off is not.
Stripper clip loaded 1884, with 5 round well... Design started in 1879, delayed for trials in 1882.
Call for Nagant design begins in 1882, after the Russo-Turk war. Mosin submits his design in 1891, 3 years AFTER the model 88 is being pitched to the Turks, the Argentines, the Bavarians, and the Belgians (who did adopt the rifle btw. In I888...)
I want to point out I call the Mosin a Mauser wannabe, not a Gewehr 98 wannabe. Its not even in the 98's league.
0/10, find something useful to doQuote:
Originally Posted by Bared
Defend your position. you make a lot of "witty" short posts, yet contribute nothing. You make a comment about chronology, without backing up your position, so, defend your position. "Witty" short replies that evade any contribution to your stance will automatically be considered failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by RazoR0/10, find something useful to doQuote:
Originally Posted by Bared
I like both, actually. Mausers/98's are the better gun if you had a choice, for actually killing/war use. Mosin's are like the bolt-action grandfather of the AK, dirt cheap, super high tolerances, will fire until they melt etc etc. Both are really cool (IMO)
Bared, I'll try to get some decent cell phone pics tomorrow, but I'm going to wait on buying it since i'm holding out for the gun show this weekend and i have a 200$ budget there :D
For Razor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2M1hC4c0tc
Hmmm. Pushing the an 8mm to 1000yrds accurately is hard and takes skill. Past the 1100yrd mark and it's less about the shooter and more about the rifle and round especially as the 8mm is already on the downward side of the BC. Polishing slugs, floated barrel, bedded stock, and match trigger are no longer exotics but basic basic gear. That's some 190-200+gr bullets we're talking about and a high pressure powder like H4831sc, not milspec 150gr stuff. You're entering magnum powder country now. Even with that at 1500yrds it's more like artillery than accurate shooting. If you're friend thinks he can do better, please be sure to inform him I said he's a full of shit poser, and to pony up his dd214 is he talks back with the word SEAL in any of it. Aint no SEAL training going to change the laws of ballisticsQuote:
In decent condition I might add. A SEAL buddy and I were watching a show on Discovery about some new sniper rifle that was like $3,000 with all these bells and whistles, accurate out to 1,500 yards. We took that as a personal challenge. The price tag I mean. So decided that we'd try and do the same job at no more than $600. My buddy, as a much better shot than me, had his Mauser shooting up Gallon jugs of gelatin at 1,500 yards. (No, they were not stock 8mm rounds. We did do the loads ourselves.) He claims he could probably do better, but we didn't have the time.
They put that kind of money into those rifles because they don't have the luxury of walking a dozen bullets into a target at that range.
I see where you'd call bullshit, and I give you your skepticism. Seems like a big story, so its no skin off my back to see doubt. No pics, so I'll STFU. Thought it was a fun story, and figured I'd share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keorythe
Edit* cut a bunch of shit, as it was unnecessary and detracted from quality of post.
Edit-2* Its also 15:40 here, haven't slept since 6:00 yesterday, and I haven't slept in long enough I'm practically trolling with typos and mistypes. Damn you surgery!!!
You're asking Razor to stop being Razor. That's what he does. Shows up with some witty comments, when he's challenged he leaves until everyone in the thread has forgotten.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaredDefend your position. you make a lot of "witty" short posts, yet contribute nothing. You make a comment about chronology, without backing up your position, so, defend your position. "Witty" short replies that evade any contribution to your stance will automatically be considered failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by RazoR0/10, find something useful to doQuote:
Originally Posted by Bared
Just had surgery and can't sleep? WTF? I couldn't stay awake after mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bared
Anyway, 1500y off of a 8mm is just beyond it's range. I'd believe up to 1200 or so, but at 1000y you've bled off so much of your velocity there's so little force left to even carry the round. As an aside, if you know how to build a 1000y rifle for $600 I'm all ears, or will purchase it off of you.
Sorry for not willing to fight windmills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
I never had a thing against Mausers. They are smooth and ergonomical and pretty.
Bared, on other hand, spouts nonsense about the most murderous bolt-action rifle ever.
Based on how hard the Finnish snipers owned in the winter war with shitty captured mosin-nagants with worn barrels and ammunition they found in the ground it's hard to say it wasn't a good weapon.
But using a metric like kill-count to measure the worth of a weapon has got to be taken with a pinch of salt especially when comparing it to valid alternatives like the Mauser or Lee Enfield mk. 4
Regretfully I've never used either of them so I'm ill-qualified to speak of them. I do love the simplicity and "russian-ness" of the Mosin-Nagant in theory.
Finland was a part of Russian Empire and fully armed with Mosins before the revolution fyi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox
Am I right in thinking that they had enough for the Finnish regular soldiers but once the winter war actually started they levied civilians and needed to arm them with old or captured weapons?
Pushing a heavy round accurately out to 1000yrds while retaining a 1moa is a pain but can be done. It's passing that magical mark with 30 caliber round where things go downhill fast. As long as the bullet is within it's BC curve it's doable. It's why everything past the 1k mark is usually handled with .300 WinMag and .338 Lapua. The trick is finding an excellent quality bore and hand loading. That requires having a decent borescope though to check the lands and grooves for any errors. The basics include glass bedding the receiver and free floating the barrel. Redoing a crown is actually a simple thing using lapping powder and a bearing. More modern rifles like an m700 may already have a perfect crown and you just need to check the riflings. Yes, an M700 can come with substandard rifling. Button rifling can sometimes result in an over-ridden land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
Handloading really makes a big difference. But it's expensive to buy the gear necessary and time consuming. Once you have the press, dies, pins, etc. you're good to go. Milsurp is usually pretty lightweight so expect to run much heavier rounds to negate environmentals. You need to weigh all of the rounds and powder which is another big time sink. I've spent hours just prepping the brass before actually loading them. But the results pay off if you're looking at landing a round in the same tight group.
Ok so what the difference between this setup and a $3k M40? Durability, durability, and durability. The stock alone does not require glass bedding since they all use an adjustable friction plate design. Once adjusted that receiver isn't going anywhere. Where as with homebrews like the rifles mentioned above or old battle rifles like the national match M14, the glass bedding can break with heavy use. Optics can be had for cheap with homebrew rifles but will usually fail before the service life of the barrel wears out. Military bolt actions don't spare expense on some Badgers and Nightforce scopes. Both of which can outlast the barrel. Trigger jobs are iffy. Most COTS types won't last long so military types aren't much different from the homebrews. Expensive rifles will go sub-moa and stay there. Homebrews require extra maintenance to keep that 1 moa level of accuracy.
An excellent post, but that was something I already knew. I was specifically targeting the price range, not the shot range. Have shot that range, just not with a sub 1k price tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeorythePushing a heavy round accurately out to 1000yrds while retaining a 1moa is a pain but can be done. It's passing that magical mark with 30 caliber round where things go downhill fast. As long as the bullet is within it's BC curve it's doable. It's why everything past the 1k mark is usually handled with .300 WinMag and .338 Lapua. The trick is finding an excellent quality bore and hand loading. That requires having a decent borescope though to check the lands and grooves for any errors. The basics include glass bedding the receiver and free floating the barrel. Redoing a crown is actually a simple thing using lapping powder and a bearing. More modern rifles like an m700 may already have a perfect crown and you just need to check the riflings. Yes, an M700 can come with substandard rifling. Button rifling can sometimes result in an over-ridden land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
Handloading really makes a big difference. But it's expensive to buy the gear necessary and time consuming. Once you have the press, dies, pins, etc. you're good to go. Milsurp is usually pretty lightweight so expect to run much heavier rounds to negate environmentals. You need to weigh all of the rounds and powder which is another big time sink. I've spent hours just prepping the brass before actually loading them. But the results pay off if you're looking at landing a round in the same tight group.
Ok so what the difference between this setup and a $3k M40? Durability, durability, and durability. The stock alone does not require glass bedding since they all use an adjustable friction plate design. Once adjusted that receiver isn't going anywhere. Where as with homebrews like the rifles mentioned above or old battle rifles like the national match M14, the glass bedding can break with heavy use. Optics can be had for cheap with homebrew rifles but will usually fail before the service life of the barrel wears out. Military bolt actions don't spare expense on some Badgers and Nightforce scopes. Both of which can outlast the barrel. Trigger jobs are iffy. Most COTS types won't last long so military types aren't much different from the homebrews. Expensive rifles will go sub-moa and stay there. Homebrews require extra maintenance to keep that 1 moa level of accuracy.
Got a shotgun just yesterday.
Mossberg 500. Probably just add a sling and maybe a light at some point, bead sights work just fine.
Any opinion on ghost sights tho?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z...4-17-18_60.jpg
Unless you plan to run slug regularly, stick with the universal 3 dot sights. You can get a nice set with night sights pretty cheap built in where as you'll pay out the ass for night sight ghost rings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisanos
But definitely get a light on that sucker and get it as far forward as you can. A side saddle wouldn't hurt either. It's a lot easier to reload from there than pockets or pulling rounds off of a sling.
I am having problems finding a front mount for the sling. All i find are the screws for the front of the magazine barrel.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2