Printable View
Addict? You might as well go straight for the kill or massive electro shocks. Several buddies of mine had to deal with coke addicts, some during bar fights, others as cops, and they all agreed, those are hard to take down due to an almost endless pain tolerance.
But that is anecdotal evidence at best.
It would be a good idea to carry one or the other for use against an attacker that isn't trying to stab or shoot you unless you are confident in your ability to deal with it hand-to-hand. In some cases a taser would be more effective at stopping an attack than a gun would be; a drugged up person coming at you with a knife will go down instantly when hit with a taser but when shot with a pistol might still kill you even with his guts hanging out. You should also have an exit plan and a phone regardless of if you are armed or not; when threatened it is always better to retreat if possible rather than risk a gun fight. You probably already know that but I figured I would put it out there for people who might be considering getting into concealed carry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
I carry a gun everywhere and I don't have pepper spray or a taser. >,>Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleBravoHonestly, if you are going to carry a gun you need those other things as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
shotgun is till my choice handgun only puts out one round and thats very "safe" as there is a reduced risk of hitting something that you dont want to unfortunately handguns also take practice to be accurate with on and constant practice to stay that way a shotgun is the perfect defence weapon as its an instinctive weapon point and shoot like a camera. and to the argument of hitting a family member on the other side of the wall unless your using slugs or some other high power round or if your house is made of wet newspaper and spit it shouldn't be a major problem just remember whats in the other room before your shoot.
whatQuote:
Originally Posted by sarabando
I'm personally fairly confident with hand to hand, so that's usually my response should something come up. Carrying a taser and a gun(+extra mags) seems like a lot to carry, and even harder to conceal. I'm also fucking amazing(if I do say so myself) with improvised weapons if there's a need for a less-than-lethal solution. Cueballs and 4-5foot long sticks are my personal favorite. The exit plan and a phone is a given, everyone even if they don't carry a weapon should have those. That's just good thought process. If you're serious about self defense, take it a step farther and make your exit plan active; sit near doors, put your back to the wall everywhere you go, evaluate every everyone for a threat as soon as the enter your field of view(also good for evaluating sexy women). I truly believe that using a gun for self defense is an absolute last resort. Almost every problem can be solved by removing yourself from the situation before the situation occurs. Anyone who calls you a pussy for walking away from a fight is downright stupid. Even pretending to step out for a smoke can cool heads or give you an escape excuse quickly, hell, I've done it twice and I'm not a smoker.Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleBravoIt would be a good idea to carry one or the other for use against an attacker that isn't trying to stab or shoot you unless you are confident in your ability to deal with it hand-to-hand. In some cases a taser would be more effective at stopping an attack than a gun would be; a drugged up person coming at you with a knife will go down instantly when hit with a taser but when shot with a pistol might still kill you even with his guts hanging out. You should also have an exit plan and a phone regardless of if you are armed or not; when threatened it is always better to retreat if possible rather than risk a gun fight. You probably already know that but I figured I would put it out there for people who might be considering getting into concealed carry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*I carry a gun everywhere and I don't have pepper spray or a taser. >,>Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleBravoHonestly, if you are going to carry a gun you need those other things as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
This very well might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard for the argument of a shotgun. I'm not even sure where to begin.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarabando
ANY weapon takes practice to be accurate with. Have you ever even fired a shotgun, and I mean really fired one. Buckshot or 00buck at a target 7 yards away? The spread is like, 3 inches if that. That's not an instinct shot, that's a I-better-get-this-right shot, especially with a pump as they've got more time to cover that ground between you. Hell, with the adrenaline rushing, you might not even remember how to work the pump. Instinct for anyone with anything in their hands is to be to use it as a club, anything beyond that requires training, and lots of it.
If you're using something other than buckshot or a slug in a shotgun for home defense you're fucking retarded. Birdshot is exactly what it's called, BIRD shot. It's for shooting birds. Even out of a 8g shotgun it's still just going to kill a tiny bird. When you've got an active home invader on the other end of that shotgun, birdshot is just going to piss him off, there's no penetration to be had from birdshot. Think about it for a minute, punch yourself in the chest with your own fit. Now punch the wall. Which gave way? Now tell me why you think that if sheetrock will stop a round, that it won't be stopped by a dress shirt and flesh. Let's be logical about this.
One 12g 00buck shell puts out 9 pellets equal to a 9x19mm NATO pistol round. That's nine of them, think of it as half a Glock17 mag in one trigger pull. If even one of those pellets misses your target, it becomes an extremely deadly projectile able to easily cut through walls. If you check my previous posts, one 9mm FMJ will cut through 6 walls worth of sheetrock and that was just the maximum sheetrock they had for the test.
Actually yeah this, the guys who think you're their best and/or only route to their next fix are exactly the guys who are so far gone that they absolutely will end up stopping at nothing to get it, and since their nervous system is likely pretty shot through already, you have to down them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Appleby
As with Joe's post, this is largely anecdotal, but it's the drug addicts that are the crazy ones, not the guy just trying to grab some cash.
I've been reading through your list of firearm laws for your state. Taser, shock sticks, and anything else with juice is off the table. As are SBR's and SBS's. I didn't see anything about suppressor/silencers though.
LEO's and others within the magistrate are of course exempt and funnily enough so are security guards within their scope of duties. Pretty steep penalties for owning one illegally.Quote:
750.224a Portable device or weapon directing electrical current, impulse, wave, or beam;
sale or possession prohibited; exceptions; use of electro-muscular disruption technology;
violation; penalty; definitions.
Sec. 224a. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not sell, offer for sale, or possess
in this state a portable device or weapon from which an electrical current, impulse, wave, or beam may be
directed, which current, impulse, wave, or beam is designed to incapacitate temporarily, injure, or kill.
Pepper spray is also in the same boat. A NOGO.Quote:
(4) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4
years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.
As you can see using one (which is a crime) in general and using one while committing another crime are separated for clarification.Quote:
750.224d Self-defense spray or foam device.
Sec. 224d. (1) As used in this section and section 224, "self-defense spray or foam device" means a device
to which all of the following apply:
(a) The device is capable of carrying, and ejects, releases, or emits 1 of the following:
(i) Not more than 35 grams of any combination of orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile and inert ingredients.
(ii) A solution containing not more than 10% oleoresin capsicum.
(b) The device does not eject, release, or emit any gas or substance that will temporarily or permanently
disable, incapacitate, injure, or harm a person with whom the gas or substance comes in contact, other than
the substance described in subdivision (a)(i) or (ii).
(2) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who uses a self-defense spray or foam device to
eject, release, or emit orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile or oleoresin capsicum at another person is guilty of a
misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or
both.
(3) If a person uses a self-defense spray or foam device during the commission of a crime to eject, release,
or emit orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile or oleoresin capsicum or threatens to use a self-defense spray or foam
device during the commission of a crime to temporarily or permanently disable another person, the judge who
imposes sentence upon a conviction for that crime shall consider the defendant's use or threatened use of the
self-defense spray or foam device as a reason for enhancing the sentence.
Below is the most important section regarding your laws. Yes you have a Castle Law and you don't need to retreat first. Also, by default the court recognizes that breaking and entering places you in an imminent threat to your life situation. Additionally you can still shoot someone if they are not committing a crime but felt your life was in danger. You will of course need to prove to the courts why you felt the threat. However, other than negligent discharge from recklessness, you don't have to worry about criminal proceedings if a stray round hits someone else. This doesn't include Civil courts where they may try to sue you.
Quote:
780.951 Individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force; presumption;
definitions.
Sec. 1. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case
that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense
act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to
himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:
(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of
breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and
entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or
business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business
premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.
(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that
the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if any of the following circumstances exist:
(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used, including an owner,
lessee, or titleholder, has the legal right to be in the dwelling, business premises, or vehicle and there is not an
injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order, a probation order, or a
parole order of no contact against that person.
(b) The individual removed or being removed from the dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle is
a child or grandchild of, or is otherwise in the lawful custody of or under the lawful guardianship of, the
individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used.
(c) The individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force is engaged in the commission of
a crime or is using the dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle to further the commission of a crime.
(d) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is a peace officer
who has entered or is attempting to enter a dwelling, business premises, or vehicle in the performance of his
or her official duties in accordance with applicable law.
(e) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is the spouse or
former spouse of the individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force, an individual with whom
the individual using deadly force or other than deadly force has or had a dating relationship, an individual
with whom the individual using deadly force or other than deadly force has had a child in common, or a
resident or former resident of his or her household, and the individual using deadly force or other than deadly
force has a prior history of domestic violence as the aggressor.
Could you highlight the pertinent aspects on michigans castle law, I think my eye's are washing past it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keorythe
Also the silencer thing is right here.
Quote:
750.224 Weapons; manufacture, sale, or possession as felony; violation as felony; penalty;
exceptions; "muffler" or "silencer" defined.
Sec. 224. (1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess any of the following:
(a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than 1 shot without
manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(b) A muffler or silencer.
(c) A bomb or bombshell.
(d) A blackjack, slungshot, billy, metallic knuckles, sand club, sand bag, or bludgeon.
(e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance designed to render a person temporarily or
permanently disabled by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other substance.
(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more
than 5 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A self-defense spray or foam device as defined in section 224d.
(b) A person manufacturing firearms, explosives, or munitions of war by virtue of a contract with a
department of the government of the United States.
(c) A person licensed by the secretary of the treasury of the United States or the secretary's delegate to
manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun, or a device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance
described in subsection (1).
(4) As used in this chapter, "muffler" or "silencer" means 1 or more of the following:
(a) A device for muffling, silencing, or deadening the report of a firearm.
(b) A combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a
muffler or silencer.
(c) A part, designed or redesigned, and intended only for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or
silencer.
History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931;žCL 1948, 750.224;žAm. 1959, Act 175, Eff. Mar. 19, 1960;žAm. 1978, Act 564,
Imd. Eff. Dec. 29, 1978;žAm. 1980, Act 346, Eff. Mar. 31, 1981;žAm. 1990, Act 321, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991;žAm. 1991, Act 33, Imd.
Eff. June 10, 1991;žAm. 2006, Act 401, Eff. Dec. 28, 2006.
Constitutionality: The Michigan supreme court held that the statute was not unconstitutionally vague as applied to the defendant in
People v Lynch, 410 Mich 343; 301 NW2d 796 (1981).
Former law: See section 3 of Act 372 of 1927, being CL 1929, § 16751; and Act 206 of 1929.
Blah, saw "manufacture" and skipped right over it not realizing it was about sale of silencers.
As for the Castle law, the details of it are actually that entire section of text. There's actually more of it but I abbreviated the thing to the relevant bits. A more laymans version without the describing details is below. Essentially you don't have to barricade yourself, family, or visitors in a corner and wait for the perp to come and get you. You can literally walk downstairs, blow the intruder away, call the cops, and then debate how tight your groups are with the responding officer after he gives you a pat on the back.
Quote:
768.21c Use of deadly force by individual in own dwelling; "dwelling" defined.
Sec. 21c. (1) In cases in which section 2 of the self-defense act does not apply, the common law of this
state applies except that the duty to retreat before using deadly force is not required if an individual is in his or
her own dwelling or within the curtilage of that dwelling.
(2) As used in this section, "dwelling" means a structure or shelter that is used permanently or temporarily
as a place of abode, including an appurtenant structure attached to that structure or shelter.
That's the weird thing, it's a brand new factory mag that came with the gun. It's also supposedly some super-cool anti-sand anti-jam mag. If it does it next time at the range, I'm going to call up Beretta and bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keorythe
Oddly, I had a related problem a bit with some really shitty/light ammo I was putting through my Glock, it would hold open with rounds still in the mag. Changed the ammo and it hasn't done it since. No idea how the ammo could do that though, I checked my grip and I'm pretty sure it wasn't that. It also happens from time to time with my Sigpro, where the slide release is completely out of the way, but I'm just attributing that to the Sigpro being a piece of crap.
I've just about spent an hour reading this and still have about ten more to go through. Pro Link.Quote:
Originally Posted by fffuuu
Ah gotcha, and my eyes did fall past that like a brick through a window under water flying backwards at the speed of meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keorythe
Round safety is still a must for me, key reasons being there are two children living to the right of me and a good family to the left. Both at risk if I go fucktarded. Didn't realize how restricted less than lethal force was :cripes:. On the plus side the place where I am planning to stash the gun that I'm going to buy (haven't gone shopping yet) will lead to a downward trajectory anyways. My townhouse is literally a choke point with a choke point on a choke point.
Pics of all the choking ploxQuote:
Originally Posted by Tellenta
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/8...heelchockw.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by DracheKPics of all the choking ploxQuote:
Originally Posted by Tellenta
I had a heartier lol than I anticipated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellenta
http://a.usacarry.co/wp-content/uplo..._1-300x256.jpg
I'm going to get me one of these, Springfield Armory XD(M) .45 ACP w/ the 5.25" barrel.
Does that still apply if the target is close enough that the birdshot is still in the process of separating from the shot cup when it hits?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
Fucking nice. Was thinking of getting another .45acp.Quote:
Originally Posted by VladCetes
Is that hole in the slide for venting?
It looks like a ported slide to me. They are supposed to help manage recoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by F*** My Aunt RitaFucking nice. Was thinking of getting another .45acp.Quote:
Originally Posted by VladCetes
Is that hole in the slide for venting?