This makes you a "gun person."Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiodome
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This makes you a "gun person."Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiodome
i don't think most guns are pretty objects. that's like saying i'm gay because i say one guy is handsome (or have i caught the gay?)
Hey look guys, I found a gay gun guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiodome
To me at least, any well built and maintained gun is beautiful, but maybe I'm just weird like that. I also find well used weapon (such as an M-4 that's seen a few tours) to look pretty cool too. As long as it's maintained, wear and tear looks pretty cool.
Agreeing with this, I've always wanted to run a serial check on it and get its history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
That's why the Mosin Nagants are so cool IMO. For $100 you can have something that almost certainly fought in WWII, and most have the scars to prove it. Too bad the Russians didn't keep better records, a serial search on them would be interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by VladCetesAgreeing with this, I've always wanted to run a serial check on it and get its history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue1*
Just got a Fiveseven in. It's quite nice, but is in serious need of break-in. Didn't shoot quite as well as the range gun I rented, but that could be a combination of new barrel and me sucking. 30-round mag extension, while cool as hell, jammed like crazy. Let's see if storing that loaded for a couple weeks will loosen the spring up a bit.
Anyone know anything about the effectiveness of civilian 5.7x28 with the V-Max bullet? I've heard mixed things, crazy fragmentation and ~11in penetration in ballistic gel. I know the Brady fags have been butthurt over it's armor piercing characteristics, but the neutered civilian round doesn't look to penetrate as well as .357sig, on paper anyway. In any case, it has less recoil and shoots better than a .40, so shot placement should improve. Fun stuff.
some people bitch about the civi round calling it a jumped up .22 magnum round XD
Appreciating a gun doesn't make someone a fucking "gun person" any more than the fact that I like porsches makes me a "car person".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool09This makes you a "gun person."Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiodome
.22 magnum is actually a better round. Heavier bullet with a better expanding bullet and comparable speed as the 5.7. But it's a straight wall neck and won't feed reliably during rapid fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarabando
Out of a pistol length barrel the 5.7 will have more than twice the energy as the .22 mag. Faster burning powder and all that. 22 mag was made for rifle length barrels and I dunno if they make a short barrel load for it.
5.7x28 has quite a bit more energy than .22 mag, especially when fired from a shorter barrel.
Yeah, even .22WMR critical defense (which is optimized for a shorter barrel) has quite a bit less energy. In fact, from a 24" barrel it's only a bit more than 5.7x28 SS197 from a Fiveseven. Bullet weight is about the same, SS197 = 40gr, CD .22WMR = 45gr.
Absolutely right about expansion though. Luckily, the SS197 uses a fragmenting VMax bullet which probably works better due to the velocity. They do make ~25gr hollow point loads, but they're fairly crap as I understand.
I am on the waiting list for the KelTec PMR-30 .22WMR, but been on it for like a year. The ones that have been sold look to be iffy in the reliability department. Even then, I don't think I'd ever use a rimfire gun for self defense. It may be a poor man's Fiveseven, but I would never rely on it.
If your talking about the M1 you have good taste in guns. If you think a guy is handsome well maybe he is. If you want to fuck him well I guess your gay. At least that's the way I look at it.
Stats come from the wiki page which uses the factory information. The AP round is available to .mil and LEO only. But we're talking about the civi round earlier as noted in the quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleBravo
.22WMR = 40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 9324 ft·lbf) 439 J
5.7x28 SS190 AP FMJ = 31 gr (2.0 g) 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) (394 ft·lbf) 534 J
5.7x28 SS197 Vmax = 40 gr 594 m/s (1,950 ft/s) and produces (340 ft-lb) 461 J out of a P90
So yeah, it's a slightly faster bullet than a .22WMR and uses a Vmax head on it. This is using a generic JPH. If you go to some of the more expensive specialty rounds then you look at the Winchester Supreme 34-gr JHP, 2120 fps. 461 J (339ft-lb) . So going back to Sarabando's comment:
Yeah....yeah it is. But the 5.7mm is sexy.Quote:
some people bitch about the civi round calling it a jumped up .22 magnum round
:facepalm:Quote:
Originally Posted by KeorytheStats come from the wiki page which uses the factory information. The AP round is available to .mil and LEO only. But we're talking about the civi round earlier as noted in the quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleBravo
.22WMR = 40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 9324 ft·lbf) 439 J
5.7x28 SS190 AP FMJ = 31 gr (2.0 g) 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) (394 ft·lbf) 534 J
5.7x28 SS197 Vmax = 40 gr 594 m/s (1,950 ft/s) and produces (340 ft-lb) 461 J out of a P90
So yeah, it's a slightly faster bullet than a .22WMR and uses a Vmax head on it. This is using a generic JPH. If you go to some of the more expensive specialty rounds then you look at the Winchester Supreme 34-gr JHP, 2120 fps. 461 J (339ft-lb) . So going back to Sarabando's comment:
Yeah....yeah it is. But the 5.7mm is sexy.Quote:
some people bitch about the civi round calling it a jumped up .22 magnum round
that muzzle velocity for the 22 wmr you quoted is from a 24" barrel.
Out of a 4.3" barrel (PMR 30) its energy is 138 ft-lb (according to keltek's site).
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...m-vs-5-7x28mm/
The generic 22WMR is out of a 24in barrel yes. The 34gr is out of a 14inch barrel. The 5.7mm is out of a 10.35 standard P90 barrel. The 5.7x28 uses faster burning higher pressure powder because it is being optimized for the FiveSeven pistol to pierce armor so it gets a big advantage out of a pistol. With a longer barrel the gains are marginally better. You see the same thing happen with the 9mm and hot loads out of a longer barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soapy5:facepalm:Quote:
Originally Posted by KeorytheStats come from the wiki page which uses the factory information. The AP round is available to .mil and LEO only. But we're talking about the civi round earlier as noted in the quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleBravo
.22WMR = 40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 9324 ft·lbf) 439 J
5.7x28 SS190 AP FMJ = 31 gr (2.0 g) 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) (394 ft·lbf) 534 J
5.7x28 SS197 Vmax = 40 gr 594 m/s (1,950 ft/s) and produces (340 ft-lb) 461 J out of a P90
So yeah, it's a slightly faster bullet than a .22WMR and uses a Vmax head on it. This is using a generic JPH. If you go to some of the more expensive specialty rounds then you look at the Winchester Supreme 34-gr JHP, 2120 fps. 461 J (339ft-lb) . So going back to Sarabando's comment:
Yeah....yeah it is. But the 5.7mm is sexy.Quote:
some people bitch about the civi round calling it a jumped up .22 magnum round
that muzzle velocity for the 22 wmr you quoted is from a 24" barrel.
Out of a 4.3" barrel (PMR 30) its energy is 138 ft-lb (according to keltek's site).
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...m-vs-5-7x28mm/
I used to carry a PF-9 a while back and I didn't know Keltec had a .22WMR pistol. I wish I didn't still didn't know. That thing is UGLY! Why would you wait a year to buy one?! What does it bring to the table? Plinker? .22LR is cheaper. Practice gun? There are .22LR conversions for most handguns these days or even airsoft replicas to keep up the same manual of arms and manipulation.
Should have clarified, they're for customers who want one. You're right, they're totally impractical, but they want the 30rd mag on a pistol without spending 3x as much on a fiveseven. I don't think anyone could consider a PMR-30 a serious tactical/self defense handgun, or useful for much more than plinking. That said, there isn't a 22LR handgun around with a ~30rd mag, short of maybe a Ruger Charger (which is really a silly cut-down rifle).Quote:
Originally Posted by Keorythe
I've also had terrible luck with Keltecs. They have cool designs, but their quality control just isn't there. Of the P-11's I've owned, both of them had the takedown pin literally fall out of the gun while shooting. To you non-gun people, that's not a good thing.
Need halp! I'm considering picking up a civilian AK variant. I needs tips, I don't know much when it comes to Russian firearms. I'm looking for something fairly cheap $400 - $600, I've seen Romanian WASR rifles but I've heard they're pretty crappy if you don't know what to look for.
The first thing you have to decide on is the caliber. AK's usually come in either 5.45x39 or 7.62x39. I prefer the 7.62 because it's more fun to shoot, and I believe is legal for hunting in more places. 5.45x39 is cheaper, marginally more accurate at range, and is probably a better choice in a modern combat rifle. That should dictate your AK choice more than anything. They also come in American calibers like .223 and .308, but I'd stick with a Russian caliber for an AK unless you have some other reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davd
If you can afford the extra hundred or two, go with the Arsenal SGL-series. They're actual Izhmash "Saiga"-made rifles converted back to Russian mil-spec. These are the real deal, made in the place Kalashnikov still works. I own an SGL-21 and can't recommend it enough. Unlike most imported AK's with Tapco G2 or similar triggers, the Arsenals have their own custom two-stage that is quite good.
The biggest thing you want to look for that indicates a quality AK is a bump pressed into the receiver on the mag well. This keeps the magazine from waving around and fitting loose. The WASR-10's I've seen don't have this, but some of the higher-grade Century guns do. I wouldn't think twice about a VZ, Centurion, or AKMS from them (Tantals have had issues). A large rectangle machined into the receiver in that place indicates a milled receiver, which are the absolute top of the top. Aside from them, despite what you'd think, the Chinese AK's (MAK-90) I've heard good things about, but I don't think they're widely available anymore due to an import ban? Bulgarians are the best money can buy, but they're very expensive.
Stay away from IO AK's. Despite claiming to be made in America, they're actually shitty probably Romanian parts bin guns. That is, they're made from non-matching '80's parts kits force fitted together with enough american parts to be called "Made in America". The one I had jammed like a son of a bitch. They may have improved since I got mine a year ago, but just a word of warning.
There's also the Zastava PAP imported by EAA, but they're often imported with a single-stack magazine lock welded into place. Make sure that's removed cleanly and in a 922r-compliant way so it can use all standard AK mags.
Also, unless you have short arms or wear a lot of stuff while shooting, go with the NATO-length stock over Warsaw Pact if you have the option. NATO stocks have a longer length of pull which is more comfortable to most Americans.
My favorite rifle by far. I have a very nice H&R with Springfield trigger group.Quote:
Originally Posted by VladCetes