Gun Thread (AK appreciation)

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

But for the most part, ammo shortages and high prices are a result of hoarding after some States made new gun legislation and the current administration talking about it.

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Wasn't that more to do with this?

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“the Department of Homeland Security is planning to buy a further 750 million rounds of ammo in addition to the 450 million rounds of hollow point bullets already purchased earlier this year,” or “Following controversy over its purchase of around 1.2 billion bullets in the last six months alone, the Department of Homeland Security has put out a new solicitation for over 200 million more rounds of ammunition,”

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http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gears...not-worry-you/

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Originally Posted by Chopper

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

But for the most part, ammo shortages and high prices are a result of hoarding after some States made new gun legislation and the current administration talking about it.

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Wasn't that more to do with this?

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“the Department of Homeland Security is planning to buy a further 750 million rounds of ammo in addition to the 450 million rounds of hollow point bullets already purchased earlier this year,” or “Following controversy over its purchase of around 1.2 billion bullets in the last six months alone, the Department of Homeland Security has put out a new solicitation for over 200 million more rounds of ammunition,”

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http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gears...not-worry-you/

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that was debunked a couple of times as mindless fear mongering.

long story short, they got enough ammo for about 1000 rounds per person per year, which is actually not that much ammo when it comes to training.

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Originally Posted by AndersonW

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Originally Posted by VladCetes

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

That is bretty gool, I wonder how the accuracy is.

On an unrelated note, I got my grandfather's Remington 700 in .30-06 and love it. Going to put my SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 on it and get an SWFA 1-6x24 for my Model 70 in .243 :D

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Yo Remington, your action is really accurate, and Imma let you finish. But Mauser has the best bolt action of all time. OF ALL TIME!

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Mauser is better than say a Mosin but you can't discount the value of the surplus rifles of the turn of the century. Arisaka... Springfield 1903...Enfield.... and Nagant... are quality riifles that don't get the glamour imho


And I think the enfield has best action of all time... so smooth
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The Arisaka is probably the most under-rated rifle out there due to its anemic cartridge. It's a really solid Mauser-derived rifle (cock on close instead of open) and the 1903 Springfield( again Mauser based) is tied with the K98K for the pinnacle of military bolt-rifles.

Also if your gonna quote Enfields, they even made their own Mauser-derived rifle (1914 Enfield).

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

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Originally Posted by AndersonW

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Originally Posted by VladCetes

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

That is bretty gool, I wonder how the accuracy is.

On an unrelated note, I got my grandfather's Remington 700 in .30-06 and love it. Going to put my SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 on it and get an SWFA 1-6x24 for my Model 70 in .243 :D

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Yo Remington, your action is really accurate, and Imma let you finish. But Mauser has the best bolt action of all time. OF ALL TIME!

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Mauser is better than say a Mosin but you can't discount the value of the surplus rifles of the turn of the century. Arisaka... Springfield 1903...Enfield.... and Nagant... are quality riifles that don't get the glamour imho


And I think the enfield has best action of all time... so smooth
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The problem is that almost all of those rifles saw their limelight in WWI. By the time WWII rolled around, they were long in the tooth and little had been done to advance firearm tech. Then the M1 Garand came around and changed all of that. By the end of the war, every nation had seen the benefits and those that could afford it moved on to their own semi-autos.

Also, the M700's action is based on the Mauser action. To tell the truth, most modern bolt action rifles incorporate the basic Mauser design for it's simplicity, it's ruggedness, and it's accuracy.

The Mosin had crude firing nocks in comparison but that was an intended feature due to the thicker primers and no gas porting. Arisaka's were too complicated and ended up being simplified by the end of the war. The Enfield locks in the rear which made it fast and smooth. But that feature destined the rifle for obsolescence shortly afterward and it can barely handle modern .308 loads. Compare that to the Mauser which has fat locking lugs in the front and has handled loads like 375mm Remington Ultra Magnum.

Picture only has a 7mm RUM which is slightly smaller than the .375 RUM. The round on the right is a .308. All can be safely loaded in an M700 with it's Mauser action. Only the Mosin has the chops to do something similar.
http://huntandshoot.com.au/wp-conten...07-Medium1.jpg

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The R700 action is so far removed from Mauser IMO you can't really consider it one. Particulary since it does away with makes it distinctive (controlled feed and claw extractor) in favor of push feed and plug ejector. Just look at a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 vs a 700ized post-64 Model 70. Big difference in smoothness and quality.

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Originally Posted by VladCetes

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Originally Posted by AndersonW

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Originally Posted by VladCetes

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

That is bretty gool, I wonder how the accuracy is.

On an unrelated note, I got my grandfather's Remington 700 in .30-06 and love it. Going to put my SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 on it and get an SWFA 1-6x24 for my Model 70 in .243 :D

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Yo Remington, your action is really accurate, and Imma let you finish. But Mauser has the best bolt action of all time. OF ALL TIME!

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Mauser is better than say a Mosin but you can't discount the value of the surplus rifles of the turn of the century. Arisaka... Springfield 1903...Enfield.... and Nagant... are quality riifles that don't get the glamour imho


And I think the enfield has best action of all time... so smooth
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

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The Arisaka is probably the most under-rated rifle out there due to its anemic cartridge. It's a really solid Mauser-derived rifle (cock on close instead of open) and the 1903 Springfield( again Mauser based) is tied with the K98K for the pinnacle of military bolt-rifles.

Also if your gonna quote Enfields, they even made their own Mauser-derived rifle (1914 Enfield).

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I was not aware of that. Good stuff.

And I completely agree about the arisaka.. its gorgrous.

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Originally Posted by AndersonW

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Originally Posted by VladCetes

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Originally Posted by AndersonW

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Originally Posted by VladCetes

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

That is bretty gool, I wonder how the accuracy is.

On an unrelated note, I got my grandfather's Remington 700 in .30-06 and love it. Going to put my SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 on it and get an SWFA 1-6x24 for my Model 70 in .243 :D

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Yo Remington, your action is really accurate, and Imma let you finish. But Mauser has the best bolt action of all time. OF ALL TIME!

---

Mauser is better than say a Mosin but you can't discount the value of the surplus rifles of the turn of the century. Arisaka... Springfield 1903...Enfield.... and Nagant... are quality riifles that don't get the glamour imho


And I think the enfield has best action of all time... so smooth
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

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The Arisaka is probably the most under-rated rifle out there due to its anemic cartridge. It's a really solid Mauser-derived rifle (cock on close instead of open) and the 1903 Springfield( again Mauser based) is tied with the K98K for the pinnacle of military bolt-rifles.

Also if your gonna quote Enfields, they even made their own Mauser-derived rifle (1914 Enfield).

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I was not aware of that. Good stuff.

And I completely agree about the arisaka.. its gorgrous.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

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I have a couple of Arisaka's my grandpa brought back from the occupation. The actions were permanently welded open by the authorities, as most of the wartime production models were manufactured with substandard materials and would blow up with distressing frequency. Turns out they had a reason for all those bayonet charges!

Ok, so my dad wants an AR.

Let's pretend money isn't an issue, but try to keep it under $2000.


What is the best for the money? I did a lot of research a few years ago that taught me that cheap ARs are cheap for a reason, but I can't seem to find any of that (peening, etc).

Furthermore, there's the old question of DI or Piston. Looking deeper, I've seen a lot of stuff that suggests that a DI gun runs best when you lubricate the shit out of the bolt and never clean it.

So, what do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

Ok, so my dad wants an AR.

Let's pretend money isn't an issue, but try to keep it under $2000.


What is the best for the money? I did a lot of research a few years ago that taught me that cheap ARs are cheap for a reason, but I can't seem to find any of that (peening, etc).

Furthermore, there's the old question of DI or Piston. Looking deeper, I've seen a lot of stuff that suggests that a DI gun runs best when you lubricate the shit out of the bolt and never clean it.

So, what do you guys think?

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Are you guys going to build your own or buy one outright?

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Probably just buy one

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

Probably just buy one

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M&P Makes a good one.. I haven't heard any issues. Rock river majes a really solid 5.56 platform. If he wants that calibur. You can get different caliburs but make sure you get 5.56 and not .223. Despite the hype sport rifles that shoot .223 aren't made to shoot 5.56 mil cartridges and its actually not the safest bet. Where a 5.56 specific platform fires both safely. Remember people say they are the same... but actual inspection and they aren't.

Sig5.56 is a great rifle.... and imho if you can get one for like 1600-1700 I'd go with that. I'm an AK guy tho hahaha

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I'm not exactly an expert on AR's, but this is pretty much all mil-spec and around $1k:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBj0tesg3SY

http://www.impactguns.com/colt-m4-ca...16in-6920.aspx (just one of the first hits on google, i'd search more and see if there are any better deals)


If you want to pimp it out, get an aimpoint pro for $360 (wait for midway's $40 off $400 coupon to show up) and a couple of extra pmags, and for $1600 you have a solid setup.

e. only thing i would change is to get a mid-length gas system and handguard; In my experience i found the carbine length handguard too short; my hands naturally wanted to grab the gun around the gas port, which is not fun once things get hot. YMMV

ee. heres one for $1043 if you pay by cash (ie check or money order) http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...oducts_id/7000

In theory, something like a wax slug could be the ideal suburban home defense round. You'd get something like a Slug Lite that delivers quite a punch on first impact, but without deadly overpenetration if you miss and go through two layers of drywall into grandma's room. However, all we have now is youtube videos of rednecks with DIY hackjobs. It would take legit industry research to find the ideal shot size, binding agent, powder loading, etc that would get the right penetration depth and spread after impact.

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

Ok, so my dad wants an AR.

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An AR can be anything from a .22lr pistol to a 7.62x51mm precision rifle. What does he want an AR for?

5.56 home defense gun. He lives in BFE and the neighbors are becoming massive ass holes.

I am thinking something like Knight's Armament ? I don't consider 'mil-spec' to be all that... military spec is all about lowest price to meet minimum reqs

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

5.56 home defense gun. He lives in BFE and the neighbors are becoming massive ass holes.

I am thinking something like Knight's Armament ? I don't consider 'mil-spec' to be all that... military spec is all about lowest price to meet minimum reqs

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Personnaly... and someone is gna rattle me for this. ARs in my opiniom are bad for home defense. Rifle rounds hit your neighbors homes. I'd say 12 gauge or a 9mm with HP rounds

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

5.56 home defense gun. He lives in BFE and the neighbors are becoming massive ass holes.

I am thinking something like Knight's Armament ? I don't consider 'mil-spec' to be all that... military spec is all about lowest price to meet minimum reqs

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If he's looking for home defense he should just get a Saiga, A5, or other autoloading shotgun. There's no benefit to be had in 5.56 over shotshell in home defense situations.

-O

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Originally Posted by AndersonW

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

5.56 home defense gun. He lives in BFE and the neighbors are becoming massive ass holes.

I am thinking something like Knight's Armament ? I don't consider 'mil-spec' to be all that... military spec is all about lowest price to meet minimum reqs

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Personnaly... and someone is gna rattle me for this. ARs in my opiniom are bad for home defense. Rifle rounds hit your neighbors homes. I'd say 12 gauge or a 9mm with HP rounds

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I used to think the same thing, but apparently, with the right hp ammo (nothing specialty), a .223 will overpenetrate less than 00 buckshot or 9mm due to the fragmentation. But imo, if you load is made to incapacitate a person, then it will inherently have unacceptable penetration through drywall.

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Originally Posted by Soapy5

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Originally Posted by AndersonW

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Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan

5.56 home defense gun. He lives in BFE and the neighbors are becoming massive ass holes.

I am thinking something like Knight's Armament ? I don't consider 'mil-spec' to be all that... military spec is all about lowest price to meet minimum reqs

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Personnaly... and someone is gna rattle me for this. ARs in my opiniom are bad for home defense. Rifle rounds hit your neighbors homes. I'd say 12 gauge or a 9mm with HP rounds

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I used to think the same thing, but apparently, with the right hp ammo (nothing specialty), a .223 will overpenetrate less than 00 buckshot or 9mm due to the fragmentation. But imo, if you load is made to incapacitate a person, then it will inherently have unacceptable penetration through drywall.

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Hrm I guess the tumble right? Makes sense.

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When discussing penetration, there are a few things to understand. First off, if it is strong enough to hurt a human, it's going to go through drywall. Glazer Safety rounds are cool, so long as what you're worried about hitting is behind a layer or two of thin metal, or behind five or more walls. There is not a magic bullet that crushes tissue but not drywall. The physics are simple, you need energy to crush tissue, and energy pushes bullets through drywall.

Law Enforcement uses 5.56/.223 as a duty weapon and that choice to adopt 5.56 as a duty round(at least in my area) was based heavily on the issue of over penetration. There's a lot of mobile homes in my area, shooting a kid three houses over from your intended targets because a .308 didn't stop on the target isn't an acceptable scenario, just like how it isn't acceptable in home defense. 5.56 tumbles and fragments amazingly well so long as you hit your target. Honestly, the same is true for most JHP handgun ammo, it's going to open up and fragment quite well, but you're going to be more accurate with a rifle than you will a pistol.

Shotguns are AMAZING for home defense, so long as you have something to shoot into. Even an extremely skilled shooter is likely to have a pellet or two off target with 00 buck. I personally moved away from a shotgun once I moved into an apartment, switching to my 9mm for exactly that reason. I'm very confident I can get a good bead on someone, but a shotgun is an inherently imprecise weapon, and I can't promise myself I won't have a pellet off that could hit one of my neighbors.

I don't have a good suggestion on what AR to buy, but an AR is the right decision if the need is home defense. I'd say that for home defense purposes, a piston is your best bet. Don't buy a cheap as shit lower either, there's places you can cut costs, but the lower isn't one.

An AR is appropriate here, there's a lot of BFE where he lives and the range will be relevant.