Gun Thread (AK appreciation)

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

No it's a shitty weapon and always has been. We use it because it's got an NSN and in our inventories. The EBR is a stop gap measure where they added a new stock and shitty scope mount but keeping a standard barrel and pretending that it would give it better accuracy because it's a 7.62 caliber. Since it doesn't require an actual organic MOS and is a lot easier to order a dozen of the things, they've been shoehorned into service again. It's still cheaper to do that than do workups on redlined equipment (like beat down m249s) and ammo is taken straight from m240 stores. If you got a hold of any M118 and didn't have a B4 ASI then you got very very lucky. So you ended up with a 18lb 4MOA rifle masquerading as a wannabe SVD that didn't do doors during MOUT and had to be re-zeroed if you did a full cleaning breakdown.

While the rest of the world was debating over the G3 and the FN FAL, we literally had a hard time giving away M14's to allied nations including the Israelis who took anything free. The guys that had them in Iraq tended to like them, grow weary, then leave them in the trucks. The smart captains pulled out the old A2 flattop muskets or order some A4's and had them converted into ghetto SPR/SAM-R's.

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Out of curiosity, is there any reason troops on the ground couldn't/didn't use captured Iragi SVD copies as stopgap DMRs? I know there were piles of them captured, presumably with ammunition.

Also I thought the primary purpose of the EBR was to project more energy at range, I've never seen any improved accuracy claims for them (Generally they seem to be content with "It's as accurate as the M16, but packs more punch at long range.")

As an aside, why would you be lucky to get M118? It's obsolete. Unless you're implying that you can't even get M852.

-O

Just picked up an HK45 Tactical. I know, anything with Tactical in the name is automatically douchey, but night sights and suppressor-ready for $200 more? Shit yeah.
Feeling in hand is what sold it for me. We'll see how it and the new Sub2K shoot at the range.

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Originally Posted by Ophichius

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

No it's a shitty weapon and always has been. We use it because it's got an NSN and in our inventories. The EBR is a stop gap measure where they added a new stock and shitty scope mount but keeping a standard barrel and pretending that it would give it better accuracy because it's a 7.62 caliber. Since it doesn't require an actual organic MOS and is a lot easier to order a dozen of the things, they've been shoehorned into service again. It's still cheaper to do that than do workups on redlined equipment (like beat down m249s) and ammo is taken straight from m240 stores. If you got a hold of any M118 and didn't have a B4 ASI then you got very very lucky. So you ended up with a 18lb 4MOA rifle masquerading as a wannabe SVD that didn't do doors during MOUT and had to be re-zeroed if you did a full cleaning breakdown.

While the rest of the world was debating over the G3 and the FN FAL, we literally had a hard time giving away M14's to allied nations including the Israelis who took anything free. The guys that had them in Iraq tended to like them, grow weary, then leave them in the trucks. The smart captains pulled out the old A2 flattop muskets or order some A4's and had them converted into ghetto SPR/SAM-R's.

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Out of curiosity, is there any reason troops on the ground couldn't/didn't use captured Iragi SVD copies as stopgap DMRs? I know there were piles of them captured, presumably with ammunition.

Also I thought the primary purpose of the EBR was to project more energy at range, I've never seen any improved accuracy claims for them (Generally they seem to be content with "It's as accurate as the M16, but packs more punch at long range.")

As an aside, why would you be lucky to get M118? It's obsolete. Unless you're implying that you can't even get M852.

-O

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Can't add it to armory lists, can't use BDE funds to buy replacement parts or upgrades, almost impossible to find an allied armorer unless you count INA/IP (if in Astan then ANA) armorers of questionable repute. You have to borrow/steal from allies if you want any 7Nxxx (whatever is marksman grade) or you would end up pulling from linked PKM belts which puts you in no better position than what you had with the EBR. On top of that it rides the line of appropriation vs war trophies which is the fucking plague to any career officer so many aren't going to want to touch that with a 10ft pole.

EBR is an SDM stopgap. The general idea is that a 7.62NATO will be able to engage targets accurately out to 500m. Since the 5.56 is a "poodle shooter" and leaves bee stings on the enemy past 300m we need more "stoppin' powah!". Now of course you can't tell this the various special forces groups and early SDM's who have been successfully engaging and killing insurgents out to 500m and beyond with their SPR's and SAM-R's chambered in 5.56mm. If someone starts to tell you that they need more "energy" downrange just nod your head and ignore what they're telling you. Energy transfer is snake oil and has nothing to do with ballistic trauma except at very close ranges where the temporary cavity MAY show some tearing from overstretching. But at the longer ranges we're talking about it's nothing.

Last question: M118 as in M118LR. I had never heard of M852. I looked it up and says it's for match competitions.

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Originally Posted by LancerSix

Just picked up an HK45 Tactical. I know, anything with Tactical in the name is automatically douchey, but night sights and suppressor-ready for $200 more? Shit yeah.
Feeling in hand is what sold it for me. We'll see how it and the new Sub2K shoot at the range.

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Do you plan on getting a NFA trust and purchasing a suppressor or are you really just paying $200 for night sights?

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

Do you plan on getting a NFA trust and purchasing a suppressor or are you really just paying $200 for night sights?

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Probably will. Never looked into getting a trust, but that might be a good idea. That said, the real problem nowadays with NFA stuff is the wait time. Even without the trust, a CLEO sign-off is no big deal, especially here in the south, but the current wait time is in the neighborhood of 7 months.

So, to answer your question, the way I figure it, I spent $200 on a set of factory-installed Meprolights (buying them from a store at ~$100 and paying a gunsmith to install them wouldn't be much less), and at the very least got a sweet looking barrel out of it. The extra half inch should add a couple FPS, not that it actually matters in 45. And if I ever do want to put a can on it, which I probably will, just saved $250 on a new barrel.

If you have the monies, get the suppressor now. The wait is alot more painful than the money you cough up. I went the trust route (just use quicken willmaker 2009 or older) and got my suppressor in about 7 months later. The cut-and-paste type of trusts are good enough enough to get the suppressor to your door; if you want the trust to do more, then you'd probably want to see a trust lawyer. Either way, trusts are amendable, so after using quicken, you want the trust to do other stuff, you can always talk to a trust lawyer to set up appropriate amendments.

e. even if you CLEO will sign off on your nfa papers, the trust route is still the cheaper/faster route since you dont have to pay for passport pictures and fingerprinting. also there's no background check on trusts, so theoretically it should be slightly faster. (not by much though, the since the majority of the 6-8 month wait involves your paperwork sitting in a box in a storage room while half a dozen people try to burn though an entire nation's worth of paperwork...)

Why would you need a suppressor for self defense? :psyduck:

You people scare me

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Why would you need a suppressor for self defense? :psyduck:

You people scare me

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Ever fired a gun in doors with no hearing protection?

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Why would you need a suppressor for self defense? :psyduck:

You people scare me

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i bought my suppressor because it it cool. Why do i need to justify my purchases to an asswipe like you? :psyduck:


also, guns are loud

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Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Why would you need a suppressor for self defense? :psyduck:

You people scare me

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Ever fired a gun in doors with no hearing protection?

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Nope, I assume it still does what a gun is supposed to do though

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

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Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Why would you need a suppressor for self defense? :psyduck:

You people scare me

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Ever fired a gun in doors with no hearing protection?

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Nope, I assume it still does what a gun is supposed to do though

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It's really really loud.

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

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Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Why would you need a suppressor for self defense? :psyduck:

You people scare me

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Ever fired a gun in doors with no hearing protection?

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Nope, I assume it still does what a gun is supposed to do though

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Its ok.. most people probably havent even fired a gun. The realism of what firearms are.. and what parts of them are actually used for.. and just a lack of education about them in general is a huge issue for fire arms.. thier makers.. and companies...


Edit: Lol the "you people scare me" comment goes more to proving my point. Also firing a firearm in a dsrk room is blinding from what ive heard.. good luck after that first shot.. pray u dont miss.
Sent from Anderwin the Peoples Champ..

Firing a 9mm or larger calibre pistol one time outdoors in an empty field is enough to temporarily deafen you.

Fired a .327 fed mag in said situation without ear protection once, was immediately 'underwater' and my left ear rang for the next two hours.

During a life & death struggle you will experience auditory exclusion, but there is still permanent physical damage.

Also afaik suppressors don't magically make a gun as silent as in the movies, but push the sound closer to 100db, so still fucking loud.

Eh, I still don't understand why Guns are even available for civilian ownership, but this isn't the thread for that discussion.

I guess the silencer is fine then

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Eh, I still don't understand why Guns are even available for civilian ownership, but this isn't the thread for that discussion.

I guess the silencer is fine then

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Eh maybe this isnt the place and time. We cant even own suppressors in the Dirty Jersey... i mean I can live without it.

Sent from Anderwin the Peoples Champ..

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Eh, I still don't understand why Guns are even available for civilian ownership, but this isn't the thread for that discussion.

I guess the silencer is fine then

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Silencers also tend to make the weapon quite a bit bulkier. I'd love to see a gangster attempting to hide one in the waistband of his sweatpants.

Suppressors are not practical for my use, too big/expensive and I'll take some hearing loss if I have to use it in self defense.

That said, it'd be nice to have one around for home defense gun. They're way too big for concealed carry (also my main CC is a revolver so no suppressor option).

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Originally Posted by AndersonW

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Eh, I still don't understand why Guns are even available for civilian ownership, but this isn't the thread for that discussion.

I guess the silencer is fine then

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Eh maybe this isnt the place and time. We cant even own suppressors in the Dirty Jersey... i mean I can live without it.

Sent from Anderwin the Peoples Champ..

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>Dirty Jersey

Now I know why I've always hated you, imposter.

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Originally Posted by Varcaus

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

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Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler

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Originally Posted by XenosisReaper

Why would you need a suppressor for self defense? :psyduck:

You people scare me

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Ever fired a gun in doors with no hearing protection?

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Nope, I assume it still does what a gun is supposed to do though

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It's really really loud.

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It's loud with a suppressor.