Gun Thread (AK appreciation)

I'm actually making a list now of what you guys have suggested to try at the range next week. I've so far got the G23, just to try. I'll be taking Razor's suggestion of the SP2022, and Springfield XD.

Goddamn am I ever looking forward to next Wednesday. \o/

I keep hearing that about Taurus, Keorythe. I suppose I really should take the hint and move of 'em. As to the 26, my hands are somewhat smaller than the average dude's, but not *that* goddamn tiny. The 26 looks like the grip was made for children or mutants...or both. Friend of mine warned me to stay the fuck away from EAA as they're apparently a relative newcomer.

Compact glocks really look bulky and more like a glocknade, durrr.

Real subcompacts should be slim and for that their mags have to be one-stacked.

What do you call this gem? Supercompact?

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/image...1287754876.jpg

"One-stacked?"

Also, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic about that gun or not, Razor. To me, the grip looks somewhat uncomfortably short.

Single-stacked, w/e.

Short and yet still as wide as any other glock's.
PSM is 18mm (20 with plastic grip covers) wide :razor:

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

Just stay away from the p239 and Pro versions.

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Tell me more about the 239 :ohnoes:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...rel/scoutg.jpg

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Originally Posted by Davd

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

Just stay away from the p239 and Pro versions.

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Tell me more about the 239 :ohnoes:

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DAK and DAO style triggers with a bit of mush and a fucking looong reset seem to be the norm. Kind of tough to find DA/SA versions that have short crisp triggers except for the police models. I would go with a Kahr P9 or S&W 3913 if I wanted something that compact and I would still be better off weight wise.

Sigs had a solid reputation for a long time based on their original p226-9 models. I would have sold a kidney to get a railed p226 (they almost cost that much for a handgun back then). But the new stuff isn't really installing that confidence that it will go bang when their life is on the line. As to emphasize: http://www.gsnmagazine.com/node/21291?c ... responders

They might have fixed those issues since then but I wouldn't carry one made before 2005. That's just a personal issue.

DracheK: You might want to go and pick up a cheap generic nylon holster made for automatics for you to wear and try out the different models inside your waistband. You want something that is comfortable to shoot and comfortable to wear. Don't worry about any high speed crap. Wearing it at the range will give you an idea about the extra bulk and weight that will be on your hip. Granted a good holster will increase the concealability and comfort by leaps and bounds but the bulk is still the same and you can see the difference (if any) between the compact and fullsize models. I know plenty of guys who run full sized handguns as their CCW and on the flip side I've transitioned back and forth with an ultra compact PF-9. It's all about personal preference that you won't know until you've actually worn and shot them.

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Originally Posted by Irion

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...rel/scoutg.jpg

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I know I'm supposed to be an apple pie loving America FUCK YEAH kind of guy but I've never been a big fan of the M-14 and think it's pretty overrated. A buddy's Reserve unit got burned trying to make some into DMR's and failed pretty bad. Even with the Sage stock the upkeep to keep the zero was supposedly pretty bad compared to anything else.

M21 EBR (aka M39 EMR) are pretty hot. Still nowhere near SVD~~~

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Originally Posted by RazoR

M21 EBR (aka M39 EMR) are pretty hot. Still nowhere near SVD~~~

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An M21 EBR is just an M14 thrown into a Sage stock. It's still a standard rifle pressed into precision duty. But we got a bunch of them in the NSN system right now and it's a lot easier to get one than an M110. Batt. Cmdr.'s get their heads filled with stories of the M14 laser beam accuracy and knock down POWAH only to find out that fitting a scope on to one doesn't make it a sniper rifle nor is m118 ammo easy to get.

Rifles like the M39 and Mk14 mod0 will outshoot an SVD any day of the week. But then these rifles have had a ton of customized accuracy work done to them where as an SVD is taken straight from the factory. It's apples and oranges to be honest. Although I'm really surprised that Russia hasn't tried to update the trigger pack, barrel, or gas system.

Original M21 is improved M14NM which is a high precision M14 derived from M1 Garand, a no bullshit fullsize semi-automatic magazine rifle.
Any scoped 7.62 NATO rifle can be a DMR.

Also both SVD and M21 are capable of sub-moa in perfect conditions and have proved to achieve 1.2 MOA with sniper AP ammo in the field.
But SVD was there first, is lighter and more rugged. If you know how to update it please do share.

Does the SVD still have that removable cheek rest that looks like something designed in 1890?

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Originally Posted by Irion

Does the SVD still have that removable cheek rest that looks like something designed in 1890?

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Yes. Should a cheek rest have picatinny rails?

Because i heard everything gets better with picatinny rails.

Or you could make it captive and mount it in a recess so it can't get lost or update the stupid wire part.

FN FAL > G3 > M14

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Originally Posted by sarabando

FN FAL > G3 > M14

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No. G3>M14>FAL
Of course you can buy all of those now in civvie form that are all accurized.

G3 = PTR-91 http://www.ptr91.com/
FAL = DSA SA-58 http://www.dsarms.com/FAL-SA58%20Rifles/products/8/
M14 = Springfield Armory M1A http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php

my love gun shoots bullets of passion

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Originally Posted by sarabando

FN FAL > G3 > M14

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+1

I owned a CETME years before and really regret selling it. It was a solid rifle but very loud, harsh recoil, and the ergonomics were just a bit out of whack as if designed for someone with much much larger hands (had to stretch fingers to hit that mag release). I fired an FN FAL and it was a smooth ride. If choosing between the two it would be a tough choice although the FN FAL comfortability is a big plus. The M14 had the best iron sights but that was about it.

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Original M21 is improved M14NM which is a high precision M14 derived from M1 Garand, a no bullshit fullsize semi-automatic magazine rifle.
Any scoped 7.62 NATO rifle can be a DMR.

Also both SVD and M21 are capable of sub-moa in perfect conditions and have proved to achieve 1.2 MOA with sniper AP ammo in the field.
But SVD was there first, is lighter and more rugged. If you know how to update it please do share.
Original M21 is improved M14NM which is a high precision M14 derived from M1 Garand, a no bullshit fullsize semi-automatic magazine rifle.
Any scoped 7.62 NATO rifle can be a DMR.

Also both SVD and M21 are capable of sub-moa in perfect conditions and have proved to achieve 1.2 MOA with sniper AP ammo in the field.
But SVD was there first, is lighter and more rugged. If you know how to update it please do share.

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The problem with classifying anything as an M21 is that while the originals were all National Match (NM) civilian purchases most of the current version are just standard M14's. Second, NM rifles are fragile things and won't hold their zero's for long in harsh environments. They rely on a glass bedding and a secured gas block for stability. Both of which need to be reset after several hundred rounds. While it's capable of 1.5 MOA, it's difficult to keep it there. M39's and Mk14mod0's are all running SEI parts, stocks, and mods and can reach sub-MOA pretty easily. But then it's got a new barrel, fire control group, tuned gas block, etc. and cost a crap ton more.

The SVD is in a similar ballpark. While it is capable of running 1.5 MOA, it's not the normal even with the issued match ammo (assuming they have any). The thin barrel is quick to heat up and open the spread after only a few shots. The same attempt to make the rifle AK reliable to having loose tolerances contributes greatly to excessive vibration. Instead of anchoring everything down to make consistent interruptions it all just rattles around. These could all be addressed but for some reason Russia hasn't which kind of blows my mind. Had they been able to export the things here I imagine they would have aftermarket parts flowing to meet the demand like the M14's.

And no, scoping any 7.62 NATO rifle does not make it a DMR. It doesn't make the gun start shooting more accurately nor improve the shooter. Hell I scoped my old Mosin with a side mount and PU scope. It still only shot pie plate groups until I re-crowned it, lapped the lugs (dear god did I need to lap everything), and polished the bore with a Tubb's kit. Military grade weapons are mass produced and while there are some high quality manufacturers they will still omit extra steps that would accurize a weapon to cut down on production times. My 16" AR-15 is darn accurate at hitting human sized targets but I wouldn't put it up against a Mk12 at 500m trying to make headshots through a square the size of a small window. And that's what a DMR is supposed to do.

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Originally Posted by Davd

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Originally Posted by Keorythe

Just stay away from the p239 and Pro versions.

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Tell me more about the 239 :ohnoes:

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[youtube:c1r45weo]LUtWUGyennk[/youtube:c1r45weo]

Nutnfancy reviews need to be taken with a grain of salt. Well, anything you read here needs to be taken with a grain of salt including my comments.

But in his case I ended up shaking my head as he's talking about how great the trigger was, then cocked it into SA mode and proceeded to pull 1/2 inch before reaching the breaking point. That's a loooong pull for SA where as most other guns only have 1mm of pull. It looks like it's the same distance as a DA pull but just lighter. The reset looks about the same as well. Can't believe he's saying it's the same as a p226.